Unions Hunting Wal-Mart

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
21

[quote]malonetd wrote:

The people working at Wal-Mart aren’t usually the college type.[/quote]

What is the college type?

[quote]
If I do not have a college education and I need a job, I can work at any of the grocery stores, convenience stores, clothing stores, auto parts stores, oil change and tune up garages, or electronic stores. And I have a choice to work at the one that will give me the best pay and benefits.

Then Wal-Mart moves in the neighborhood, with their one-stop shopping convenience, and drives most or all of the other businesses out. I no longer have a choice where to work. I have to work at Wal-Mart and accept whatever shitty wage and benefit package they give me.[/quote]

Solution…go to college. Why should everyone else have to pay more for their goods and services because you don’t feel like getting an education?

22

www.planetmoron.com

It’s Okay Because It’s Just a Big Business

What’s the best way to address the fact that 786,000 Maryland residents are without health insurance? Pass a bill that targets the 17,000 who suffer from chronic employment. With their oppressively regular paychecks and access to health benefits, these desperately jobful citizens were clearly crying out for help.

And Maryland Democrats were crying out for an issue in the upcoming governor’s race.

Called the “Wal-Mart bill” because its provisions coincidentally affect only Wal-Mart, it had originally been vetoed by Republican Governor Bob Ehrlich. Overridden this week by the Democratic-controlled legislature, it will require the retailing giant to spend a set 8% of its payroll on health care for its employees.

Wal-Mart’s current mix of pay, benefits, hours, locations and working conditions managed to convince 17,000 Marylanders to freely choose to work there rather than the three million other jobs available in the state. However, because these decisions were made by individuals and not state-certified experts, they were clearly suspect. Now that the professionals have had a look we know that 8% is the “correct” number.

This creative approach to public policy requires no increase in taxes. Oh, sure, it will probably result in higher prices but that cost will be borne by the millions of lower-income customers of Wal-Mart. What’s important is that the working families of Wal-Mart will finally be able to provide the positive press coverage and local news sound bites so essential to a healthy and vibrant reelection campaign.

This combination of what is essentially a regressive tax on Maryland citizens together with an attack on big business has caused confusion in the Republican ranks. Said one clearly conflicted state GOP senator, “Do you at least know which side is more pro-life?”

Some Republicans supported the override including Del. Jean B. Cryor of Potomac noting that Wal-Mart could have “solved the problem” by increasing health benefits but, as she said, “They made their choice.” In other words, had Wal-Mart chosen to accept the state’s very reasonable and generous offer then all this “unpleasantness” could easily have been avoided. Capiche?

Of course, Wal-Mart has many self-made problems such as apparently violating Pennsylvania wage and labor laws by not paying employees who often worked through their breaks. The company’s defense that their own time sheets which were used as evidence “were crap” did not go over super well with the judge who has since decided to certify a class-action lawsuit.

Still, what will Maryland do about its remaining 769,000 residents who do not have health insurance?

One company down, 134,446 to go!

23

[quote]doogie wrote:
malonetd wrote:

The people working at Wal-Mart aren’t usually the college type.

What is the college type?

If I do not have a college education and I need a job, I can work at any of the grocery stores, convenience stores, clothing stores, auto parts stores, oil change and tune up garages, or electronic stores. And I have a choice to work at the one that will give me the best pay and benefits.

Then Wal-Mart moves in the neighborhood, with their one-stop shopping convenience, and drives most or all of the other businesses out. I no longer have a choice where to work. I have to work at Wal-Mart and accept whatever shitty wage and benefit package they give me.

Solution…go to college. Why should everyone else have to pay more for their goods and services because you don’t feel like getting an education?

[/quote]

You’re right. It really is so simple. Everyone in this country has the financial ability to go to college. Duh, what was I thinking?

24

[quote]doogie wrote:
malonetd wrote:

The people working at Wal-Mart aren’t usually the college type.

What is the college type?

If I do not have a college education and I need a job, I can work at any of the grocery stores, convenience stores, clothing stores, auto parts stores, oil change and tune up garages, or electronic stores. And I have a choice to work at the one that will give me the best pay and benefits.

Then Wal-Mart moves in the neighborhood, with their one-stop shopping convenience, and drives most or all of the other businesses out. I no longer have a choice where to work. I have to work at Wal-Mart and accept whatever shitty wage and benefit package they give me.

Solution…go to college. Why should everyone else have to pay more for their goods and services because you don’t feel like getting an education?

[/quote]

LOL. You are ridiculous! You know damn well there are plenty of people that aren’t made for college and do completely other things.

Secondly, there is always going to be a working class. It doesn’t matter how much you bitch and moan about personal choice and taxpayer’s money. Get the corruption out of the system, then whine about where all your money is going. Do you guys know anyway? Do you look up where every dollar heads? C’mon now.

There will always be a working class. They will always be at a huge disadvantage. It is Wal-Mart’s social repsonsibility (in my opinion) to make sure their workers are being taken care of. That company is not suffering- if they are, I am sure they’ll find a way to screw someone else out of money. That’s capitalism baby.

25

[quote]lucasa wrote:
www.planetmoron.com

It’s Okay Because It’s Just a Big Business

What’s the best way to address the fact that 786,000 Maryland residents are without health insurance? Pass a bill that targets the 17,000 who suffer from chronic employment. With their oppressively regular paychecks and access to health benefits, these desperately jobful citizens were clearly crying out for help.

And Maryland Democrats were crying out for an issue in the upcoming governor’s race.

Called the “Wal-Mart bill” because its provisions coincidentally affect only Wal-Mart, it had originally been vetoed by Republican Governor Bob Ehrlich. Overridden this week by the Democratic-controlled legislature, it will require the retailing giant to spend a set 8% of its payroll on health care for its employees.

Wal-Mart’s current mix of pay, benefits, hours, locations and working conditions managed to convince 17,000 Marylanders to freely choose to work there rather than the three million other jobs available in the state. However, because these decisions were made by individuals and not state-certified experts, they were clearly suspect. Now that the professionals have had a look we know that 8% is the “correct” number.

This creative approach to public policy requires no increase in taxes. Oh, sure, it will probably result in higher prices but that cost will be borne by the millions of lower-income customers of Wal-Mart. What’s important is that the working families of Wal-Mart will finally be able to provide the positive press coverage and local news sound bites so essential to a healthy and vibrant reelection campaign.

This combination of what is essentially a regressive tax on Maryland citizens together with an attack on big business has caused confusion in the Republican ranks. Said one clearly conflicted state GOP senator, “Do you at least know which side is more pro-life?”

Some Republicans supported the override including Del. Jean B. Cryor of Potomac noting that Wal-Mart could have “solved the problem” by increasing health benefits but, as she said, “They made their choice.” In other words, had Wal-Mart chosen to accept the state’s very reasonable and generous offer then all this “unpleasantness” could easily have been avoided. Capiche?

Of course, Wal-Mart has many self-made problems such as apparently violating Pennsylvania wage and labor laws by not paying employees who often worked through their breaks. The company’s defense that their own time sheets which were used as evidence “were crap” did not go over super well with the judge who has since decided to certify a class-action lawsuit.

Still, what will Maryland do about its remaining 769,000 residents who do not have health insurance?

One company down, 134,446 to go![/quote]

What does the health insurance of the rest of the country have to do with anything? Republicans have clearly shown that they care little for the 46 million without healthcare. Why would they start now? At least Maryland has made point to do something about it- 17,000 with better healthcare is better than none. Wal-Mart has unfair business practices, they treat workers with contempt, and are involved with tons of lawsuits. They brought this upon themselves. I have no sympathy.

26

[quote]malonetd wrote:
doogie wrote:
malonetd wrote:

The people working at Wal-Mart aren’t usually the college type.

What is the college type?

If I do not have a college education and I need a job, I can work at any of the grocery stores, convenience stores, clothing stores, auto parts stores, oil change and tune up garages, or electronic stores. And I have a choice to work at the one that will give me the best pay and benefits.

Then Wal-Mart moves in the neighborhood, with their one-stop shopping convenience, and drives most or all of the other businesses out. I no longer have a choice where to work. I have to work at Wal-Mart and accept whatever shitty wage and benefit package they give me.

Solution…go to college. Why should everyone else have to pay more for their goods and services because you don’t feel like getting an education?

You’re right. It really is so simple. Everyone in this country has the financial ability to go to college. Duh, what was I thinking?[/quote]

Everyone in America has the financial ability to go to college. It may have to be part-time, internet courses paid with Pell Grants and student loans, but EVERYONE had the financial means to do it.

27

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:

LOL. You are ridiculous! You know damn well there are plenty of people that aren’t made for college and do completely other things.
[/quote]

Those people make their choice. They shouldn’t expect the government to force employers and other consumers to subsidize their poor choices.

[quote]
Secondly, there is always going to be a working class. It doesn’t matter how much you bitch and moan about personal choice and taxpayer’s money. Get the corruption out of the system, then whine about where all your money is going. Do you guys know anyway? Do you look up where every dollar heads? C’mon now.
;
There will always be a working class. They will always be at a huge disadvantage. It is Wal-Mart’s social repsonsibility (in my opinion) to make sure their workers are being taken care of. That company is not suffering- if they are, I am sure they’ll find a way to screw someone else out of money. That’s capitalism baby.[/quote]

Working class people shouldn’t expect to get paid/have the same benefits as educated people.

28

[quote]doogie wrote:

Working class people shouldn’t expect to get paid/have the same benefits as educated people.[/quote]

Who’s being elitist now!? Jesus Christ, this is why I will never understand how anyone thinks Republicans help the common man. Doogie here is a standing example. I thought we figured out that there’s lots of dumb people out there with degrees- hell, you guys rant and rave over the “liberal media”, the “hippie professors” in academia, and lots of other educated people. You have exposed the basic contradiction and greatest lie of the Republican party here.

Tell your mechanic that next time before he works on your car, or your waiter when you go to a resuarant. They are alot more important than you would like to acknowledge. Hell, you could probably be a spokesman for Wal-Mart…

29

[quote]doogie wrote:
Everyone in America has the financial ability to go to college. It may have to be part-time, internet courses paid with Pell Grants and student loans, but EVERYONE had the financial means to do it.
[/quote]

Wow, you sound ignorant. You’re right, let me quit my second job (if there is even a place left that Wal-Mart didn’t drive out where I can get a second job) and take a couple internet courses a year. I might be able to graduate in…what, 12 years?

[quote]doogie wrote:
Working class people shouldn’t expect to get paid/have the same benefits as educated people.[/quote]

You sound like a complete elitist snob. Just because you completed some coursework that may or may not even have any real world applicibility, you should live a better life than me?

30

[quote]doogie wrote:
but EVERYONE had the financial means to do it.
[/quote]

The more I read this, the more I am disgusted by your ignorance. To me this says you have lived a privileged life and given many opportunites that others have not. Yet, I’m sure you will tell me a story of struggle and overcoming great odds to make it through college and life.

How can you say with a straight face that everyone has the financial means to make it through college? I think we both can agree that many that claim they can’t afford to, actually can; I believe that.

But that is more an issue of knowing the options and available help out there; something else that hinders many in their quest for higher education.

31

God forbid people get any more than the absolute fucking minimum of anything… it would just be fucking horrible if people could earn a few extra bucks and have a bit more comfort in their lives.

32

[quote]vroom wrote:
God forbid people get any more than the absolute fucking minimum of anything… it would just be fucking horrible if people could earn a few extra bucks and have a bit more comfort in their lives.[/quote]

How can you say such things! COMMUNIST!

Burn’em!! Quick Doogie, go get some gasoline and some wood…unless of course that’s beneath you, in which case I will go.

33

[quote]malonetd wrote:
doogie wrote:
but EVERYONE had the financial means to do it.

The more I read this, the more I am disgusted by your ignorance. To me this says you have lived a privileged life and given many opportunites that others have not. Yet, I’m sure you will tell me a story of struggle and overcoming great odds to make it through college and life.
[/quote]

No personal story of struggle. I’ve been middle class most of my life. Any difficulties I’ve had were brought on by myself. I admit that.

I teach in the poorest (maybe second poorest) school district in Texas. I’ve seen what people can overcome if they choose to do so.

[quote]
How can you say with a straight face that everyone has the financial means to make it through college? I think we both can agree that many that claim they can’t afford to, actually can; I believe that.[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]

But that is more an issue of knowing the options and available help out there; something else that hinders many in their quest for higher education.[/quote]

Ok, but the fact is that the help IS out there. They don’t bring everyone a check on their 18th birthday and say, “Here, go to college.” However ten minutes on the computer (at the public library, of course) is enough to find out that EVERYONE can afford to go to college. It might take you 12 years, sure. So what?

We talk so much on this site about bettering our bodies, but it is too much to expect people to better their own circumstances?

I’ll alter my statement to say that everyone in this country has the financial means of going to college until they make stupid choices and fuck up that opportunity. Other people shouldn’t have to pay for those mistakes.

34

I’d contend that we do pay for those mistakes, when we force people to live the consequences of them.

No, I am not against personal responsibility.

However, when we stop making sure people can climb up the rungs of society, so that they earn a higher income, we deny ourselves access to higher productivity and tax payments that this person is capable of.

We can’t force people to be successful, and we shouldn’t provide disincentives, but it does cost us when the obstacles pile up and keep people from making larger contributions to society.

35

[quote]vroom wrote:
God forbid people get any more than the absolute fucking minimum of anything… it would just be fucking horrible if people could earn a few extra bucks and have a bit more comfort in their lives.[/quote]

$9.68 IS NOT THE MINIMUM!! Funny how one person can put themselves through school and/or provide for themselves at minimum wage whereas another needs paid. It is fucking horrible that people have a bit more comfort in their lives because it is “ordained” so at the cost of the general public/consumer, especially when it’s NOT THE MINIMUM!

36

[quote]vroom wrote:

I’d contend that we do pay for those mistakes, when we force people to live the consequences of them.

No, I am not against personal responsibility.

However, when we stop making sure people can climb up the rungs of society, so that they earn a higher income, we deny ourselves access to higher productivity and tax payments that this person is capable of.

We can’t force people to be successful, and we shouldn’t provide disincentives, but it does cost us when the obstacles pile up and keep people from making larger contributions to society.[/quote]

And what obstacle is Wal-Mart presenting in this case? Are these people unable to get insurance or provide for their retirement because of Wal-Mart?

37

Lucasa,

In case you missed it, the thread has spread a bit beyond purely the Walmart specifics and into other related philisophical issues.

Surely you don’t really think I’m talking about the minimum wage or the wage that is paid by Walmart?

38

[quote]lucasa wrote:
vroom wrote:
God forbid people get any more than the absolute fucking minimum of anything… it would just be fucking horrible if people could earn a few extra bucks and have a bit more comfort in their lives.

$9.68 IS NOT THE MINIMUM!! Funny how one person can put themselves through school and/or provide for themselves at minimum wage whereas another needs paid. It is fucking horrible that people have a bit more comfort in their lives because it is “ordained” so at the cost of the general public/consumer, especially when it’s NOT THE MINIMUM![/quote]

LOL. No, its not the legal minimum. But trying living off it. See how well that goes. That doesn’t cover my car insurance in NJ.

39

[quote]doogie wrote:
Ok, but the fact is that the help IS out there. They don’t bring everyone a check on their 18th birthday and say, “Here, go to college.” However ten minutes on the computer (at the public library, of course) is enough to find out that EVERYONE can afford to go to college. It might take you 12 years, sure. So what? [/quote]

I think it would take more than ten minutes online to find much. Do you also realize how many high school seniors have never even been in a public library? Besides that, if I didn’t know there was help for college, why would I go looking?

That’s the point I’m trying to make – too many people are unaware of the opportunities for higher education. I was one of them. And 12 years is an awful long committment to ask someone to make for something they may or may not ever see benefit in doing.

[quote]
We talk so much on this site about bettering our bodies, but it is too much to expect people to better their own circumstances?[/quote]

For the record, I am trying to better my circumstances. I am 29 and a full time student at the local community college. It is my second semester of full time status and it is not easy, but I’m doing it. I have posted some fairly personal posts in the past so sou could actually find out a lot more about me if you oogie me.

I still disagree with the word “everyone.” I think many people are not afforded the opportunity through no fault of their own.

And to keep this somewhat on subject. If “everyone” had a college eduacation, wouldn’t, naturally, some people still be forced to work at Wal-Mart? There are only so many white-collar jobs.

40

[quote]lucasa wrote:
$9.68 IS NOT THE MINIMUM!![/quote]

No, it’s not the minimum, but it’s still hard to live off, and even harder to raise a family.

Also, Wal-Mart didn’t say that was the entry level wage, just the average. For all we know they start out at minimum wage and it takes years to reach that wage.