[quote]JeeKeu wrote:
It was great when I could just pick them up, pretend like we’re going somewhere fun…put the child safety locks on, lock the windows…crank the heat up all the way…and ride for an hour…talking the entire time…LOL. [/quote]
HAHAHA…hilarious! Poor kids.
I looked up the hot sauce mom. Sorry Prof X, she is a psycho.
The hot sauce thing was ok (not my style) but the cold shower is vindictive.
Overall she is a huge bitch and her kids will hate her for life.
[quote]Professor X wrote:
Oh, and for the record, when I do have kids, they will probably be bad as hell because I doubt I will lay one hand on them. I think my parents spanked me because their parents spanked them, not because it was absolutely necessary as I was a pretty good kid growing up.
That doesn’t mean I am against all physical punishment because I have seen how some of these kids act (parents were teachers in lower income neighborhoods). Some kids may only respond if you take it to that level. Hopefully, in most “good homes” that can be avoided…but in cases where you adopt a kid with emotional issues, you don’t know what you may have to deal with. That little kid may be the most evil thing since Chucky for all we know.
I think Jeekeu wanted me to make my stance clearer.[/quote]
'Sorry if already asked and answered. What then is your reason for feeling you may not smack kids if you have them. I was raised much the same way. There was physical contact, not abuse. I was also a pretty good kid until I was a bit older. I felt like I was raised that way because thats how they were raised.
I also felt like it was in no way damaging to my long term psyche like people want to believ nowadays. But, unlike you, for those reasons I always felt like I probably would spank my theoretical kids for exactly that reason, its how I was raised and I see nothing wrong with it.
Did my parents make mistakes? Yes, but in the end I like who I am and I feel like they did a great job of parenting, which is why for the most part I have always felt my parenting style would turn out to be not much different than theirs.
And if you love them and guide them, I doubt very much they will be “bad as hell”. If parenting were simply a matter of corporal punishment, there would be no debate in our society on child rearing. There is considerable debate about physical punishment. And there is NO debate about the need for communication, love and guidance.
I never touched my older boys. They are not “bad as hell”. They are not “bad” at all. Both attend college. Never been in any real trouble. In fact, the older one was NEVER in ANY trouble and the younger of the two had two school fights - both of which I FULLY SUPPORTED.[/quote]
Agree. Some of the most honest, successful straight shooters I know were raised with a pretty soft hand. They may n ot be the toughest SOB’s around, but alot of the time in this day and age that can hold you back as much as help you.
Not ruling with an iron fist is different from being an absentee parent and letting sitters, peers, tv and the web raise your kids. It sounds like your kids had great direction FROM YOU, which is one of the only crucial part of responsible parenting, IMO.
Apparently the average black guy is a “gang banger”.
I am really interested in what he said exactly that caused “Dre” to come to that conclusion.
I also wonder why I never get to hear this shit actually come from anyone’s mouths.[/quote]
You see a large black man when you look in the mirror right? You are in the demographic of “least likekly to hear someones opinion face to face if they think they will piss you off”.
As I have gotten older and a much higher perc. of friends have become white two things consistently disturb me when I am around that type of person. (White, mid,upper class, semi segragated upbringing.)
[quote]Dre the Hatchet wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]Dre the Hatchet wrote:
Uncle claimed he “don’t come form this shit”, yet he talks like a gang banger and got his pants sagged for easy access as a fucking grown man.
Probably spent his T-shirt money on blunts, 40’s and bitches, too…
[/quote]
He was talking like a normal black guy from the south east (it sounds like florida to me, but that could be a few different places) as to the belt, well thats ALREady been explained. Did you gain your all your worldly wisdom from TRick Daddy videos?[/quote]
Apparently the average black guy is a “gang banger”.
I am really interested in what he said exactly that caused “Dre” to come to that conclusion.
I also wonder why I never get to hear this shit actually come from anyone’s mouths.[/quote]
Yeah, I totally said that the average black male is a gang banger. That’s some good reading comprehension there, “Professor”. Some people just love getting wound up for the sake of arguing.
While I absolutely applaud what the uncle did for that kid, my point was the hypocrisy of punishing him for acting like a thug while talking like a thug himself.
I don’t believe the average black male says “motherfucker, shit, fuck” in every sentence, especially in the house while being a role model. Claiming that this is the case would be racist.
Reminds me of my Basketball coach: “Guys, stop fuckin’ cussing in the gym. SHIT!” Needless to say, we didn’t take him very seriously.
So yeah, if you wanna be mad, be mad. After all, this is teh intanet so it’s serious business.
[/quote]
why would this be any different than the blue collar construction worker (white) who cusses all day long, whistles at chicks all day long and sits on his porch drinking a beer with his had down his pants. Nobody said the guy was acting like a Rhodes scholar, just that cause hes cussing alot. My best friend works for a tow company, most of the are your avg. white working class guys, they also cuss every third word.
Alright, that was the last post, Im done hijacking this shit replying to posts from 3 pages ago. This shit is kind of a hot button for me.
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]Dre the Hatchet wrote:
[quote]Professor X wrote:
[quote]SILVERDAN7 wrote:
[quote]Dre the Hatchet wrote:
Uncle claimed he “don’t come form this shit”, yet he talks like a gang banger and got his pants sagged for easy access as a fucking grown man.
Probably spent his T-shirt money on blunts, 40’s and bitches, too…
[/quote]
He was talking like a normal black guy from the south east (it sounds like florida to me, but that could be a few different places) as to the belt, well thats ALREady been explained. Did you gain your all your worldly wisdom from TRick Daddy videos?[/quote]
Apparently the average black guy is a “gang banger”.
I am really interested in what he said exactly that caused “Dre” to come to that conclusion.
I also wonder why I never get to hear this shit actually come from anyone’s mouths.[/quote]
Yeah, I totally said that the average black male is a gang banger. That’s some good reading comprehension there, “Professor”. Some people just love getting wound up for the sake of arguing.
While I absolutely applaud what the uncle did for that kid, my point was the hypocrisy of punishing him for acting like a thug while talking like a thug himself.
I don’t believe the average black male says “motherfucker, shit, fuck” in every sentence, especially in the house while being a role model. Claiming that this is the case would be racist.
Reminds me of my Basketball coach: “Guys, stop fuckin’ cussing in the gym. SHIT!” Needless to say, we didn’t take him very seriously.
So yeah, if you wanna be mad, be mad. After all, this is teh intanet so it’s serious business.
[/quote]
why would this be any different than the blue collar construction worker (white) who cusses all day long, whistles at chicks all day long and sits on his porch drinking a beer with his had down his pants. Nobody said the guy was acting like a Rhodes scholar, just that cause hes cussing alot. My best friend works for a tow company, most of the are your avg. white working class guys, they also cuss every third word.
Alright, that was the last post, Im done hijacking this shit replying to posts from 3 pages ago. This shit is kind of a hot button for me.[/quote]
We have a word for the white person you describe…“REDNECK”…if some big white guy with a huge beer gut, john deere hat, and pit stained wife beater was put in this situation, only his nephew had been bragging about commiting hate crimes against mexicans on the internet, would you really take the dude seriously when he’s beating his kid whilst saying “WE DONT HATE DEM MEXICANOS…EVEN IF THEY TUK ARR JOBZZZ”…
Its not a white or black thing, it is a presentation thing…
I hope all of your guys/girls that are agreeing with this type of strong male figure and discipline intend on remembering that when you have kids later on in life so we don’t breed a generation of fucking pussies.
[quote]B rocK wrote:
I hope all of your guys/girls that are agreeing with this type of strong male figure and discipline intend on remembering that when you have kids later on in life so we don’t breed a generation of fucking pussies.[/quote]
This is precious. Every generations thinks the upcoming one is “pussies”. Where are all of these mythical “real men”?
And humor me. Please define pussy for me?
^BodyGuard; I have some thoughts on this. I don’t buy into the whole “back in my day” line but I do have concerns about the kids coming up today. Culturally there are few of us left alive who in North America who have lived through a time of prolonged national hardship (Great War, Great Depression etc.). As a society we have gotten used to easy credit terms, instant gratification and prior to this last recession a period of almost unprecedented economic prosperity. It seems like everyone but the truly dirt poor has a brand new flat screen and a PS3, I mean WTF?! Fear of lawsuits has made everything ridiculously safe lest one of the little darlings skin their knee or god forbid actually break a bone. I do the Big Brothers thing and my little guy’s school has a “no touch” policy. Seriously; no tag, no wrestling NO TOUCHING! Add to that the general trend toward replacing sports with video games, skyrocketing childhood obesity rates and no sense of personal accountability in anything (lots of youth sports programs don’t even keep score and many high school grads are illiterate) and I don’t see how these kids can help but grow into pussies, because we are so completely failing them! God help us if we ever need to field an army of the size necessary to address a global threat of the same scope as Nazi Germany. My definition of a pussy is someone who is physically and emotionally soft, who goes through life expecting to get shit handed to them how and when they want it. Someone who does not understand how to endure hardship and is unwilling to suffer for the greater good. In short it’s the typical North American child/adolescent (or adult for that matter) and it it’s our fault. Not that I necessarily think smacking your kids is the answer, but we are grievously off track here. Just my 2c
Bodyguard - The dick measuring contest is SPOT on. Glad someone else sees that.
And John… You got thrown through a fucking wall? How are you still alive? Was this “wall” made of cardboard by any chance? Lets not exaggerate here.
[quote]batman730 wrote:
^BodyGuard; I have some thoughts on this. I don’t buy into the whole “back in my day” line but I do have concerns about the kids coming up today. Culturally there are few of us left alive who in North America who have lived through a time of prolonged national hardship (Great War, Great Depression etc.). As a society we have gotten used to easy credit terms, instant gratification and prior to this last recession a period of almost unprecedented economic prosperity. It seems like everyone but the truly dirt poor has a brand new flat screen and a PS3, I mean WTF?! Fear of lawsuits has made everything ridiculously safe lest one of the little darlings skin their knee or god forbid actually break a bone. I do the Big Brothers thing and my little guy’s school has a “no touch” policy. Seriously; no tag, no wrestling NO TOUCHING! Add to that the general trend toward replacing sports with video games, skyrocketing childhood obesity rates and no sense of personal accountability in anything (lots of youth sports programs don’t even keep score and many high school grads are illiterate) and I don’t see how these kids can help but grow into pussies, because we are so completely failing them! God help us if we ever need to field an army of the size necessary to address a global threat of the same scope as Nazi Germany. My definition of a pussy is someone who is physically and emotionally soft, who goes through life expecting to get shit handed to them how and when they want it. Someone who does not understand how to endure hardship and is unwilling to suffer for the greater good. In short it’s the typical North American child/adolescent (or adult for that matter) and it it’s our fault. Not that I necessarily think smacking your kids is the answer, but we are grievously off track here. Just my 2c
[/quote]
Well, I don’t disagree with any of the above, but this doesn’t have much to do with parenting as we are discussing it in this thread. You certainly can’t make a kid “tough” or “unspoiled” by just being gruff with him his whole life or beating him. For some, the thread has almost turned into this stupid veiled brag about how tough their parents were on them and the obligatory closing, “and I’m okay”. That’s just plain stupid. I wonder if there are a group of women somewhere writing back and forth comparing stories like, “oh that’s nothing. One finger by your uncle in your pussy is EASY. I had an uncle that liked to use 3”. Followed with, “oh you think you had it tough, my uncle used to fuck me when I was just 10…and I’m okay”. I exaggerate for effect obviously. I know plenty of spoiled pussies that used to get beat. I’ll say it again, if getting beat was the key to success, we wouldn’t have legitimate debates over parenting…we’d just beat them into compliance and being good citizens. And if we want “tough” kids, we give them a beating a make them tough. That sounds pretty stupid right?
Anyway, I don’t disagree with your sentiment. Physically, we are getting softer, but even when I was young, we had fat kids, soft kids, pussies, etc. Perhaps if we went back to the Great Depression and such, the youth weren’t as physically soft due to limited resources, but that’s before my time.
Bodyguard: I’m absolutely a little off point, I admit. The “kids these days” thing is just a hot button for me. As for what this thread is actually about; I am a parent and can’t imagine hitting my child. Of course she’s only 15mos old and I’m not really parenting yet, just surviving :). I absolutely don’t believe that beating kids makes them “tough”. That’s just fucking stupid. I too know plenty of pussies who got knocked around as kids. However the Spartan “agoge” did rely heavily on beatings and corporal punishment and undeniably produced tough people. Of course, while tough and competent they may not have been too well adjusted by our standards. That, however, was all premeditated and systematic and not delivered by the parents at all. This bears no resemblance to a parent striking a child in anger. I believe that’s more about parents venting their frustrations about their own fucked up lives than it is a parenting “strategy”. Afterward come the “for their own good” rationalizations. Understand I’m not suggesting that the Spartans had child rearing figured out, I’m just saying that even they didn’t pull the same shit as abusive parents. Oh, and the whole dick measuring thing, yeah it’s pointless. Overall I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said at all.
BTW I didn’t get the Spartan stuff just from “300”, I actually found it in books 
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
thread has almost turned into this stupid veiled brag about how tough their parents were on them and the obligatory closing, “and I’m okay”. That’s just plain stupid. I wonder if there are a group of women somewhere writing back and forth comparing stories like, “oh that’s nothing. One finger by your uncle in your pussy is EASY. I had an uncle that liked to use 3”. Followed with, “oh you think you had it tough, my uncle used to fuck me when I was just 10…and I’m okay”. I exaggerate for effect obviously. I know plenty of spoiled pussies that used to get beat. I’ll say it again, if getting beat was the key to success, we wouldn’t have legitimate debates over parenting…we’d just beat them into compliance and being good citizens. And if we want “tough” kids, we give them a beating a make them tough. That sounds pretty stupid right?
[/quote]
Pretty interesting how in this culture, people (mainly men) tend to brag about all of the horrible things they have endured, as if being abused as a child is a good thing…
[quote]TD54 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
thread has almost turned into this stupid veiled brag about how tough their parents were on them and the obligatory closing, “and I’m okay”. That’s just plain stupid. I wonder if there are a group of women somewhere writing back and forth comparing stories like, “oh that’s nothing. One finger by your uncle in your pussy is EASY. I had an uncle that liked to use 3”. Followed with, “oh you think you had it tough, my uncle used to fuck me when I was just 10…and I’m okay”. I exaggerate for effect obviously. I know plenty of spoiled pussies that used to get beat. I’ll say it again, if getting beat was the key to success, we wouldn’t have legitimate debates over parenting…we’d just beat them into compliance and being good citizens. And if we want “tough” kids, we give them a beating a make them tough. That sounds pretty stupid right?
[/quote]
Pretty interesting how in this culture, people (mainly men) tend to brag about all of the horrible things they have endured, as if being abused as a child is a good thing…
[/quote]
It might also be a product of the anonymity of the internet. It’s not something that comes up that much in conversation in my experience.
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]TD54 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
thread has almost turned into this stupid veiled brag about how tough their parents were on them and the obligatory closing, “and I’m okay”. That’s just plain stupid. I wonder if there are a group of women somewhere writing back and forth comparing stories like, “oh that’s nothing. One finger by your uncle in your pussy is EASY. I had an uncle that liked to use 3”. Followed with, “oh you think you had it tough, my uncle used to fuck me when I was just 10…and I’m okay”. I exaggerate for effect obviously. I know plenty of spoiled pussies that used to get beat. I’ll say it again, if getting beat was the key to success, we wouldn’t have legitimate debates over parenting…we’d just beat them into compliance and being good citizens. And if we want “tough” kids, we give them a beating a make them tough. That sounds pretty stupid right?
[/quote]
Pretty interesting how in this culture, people (mainly men) tend to brag about all of the horrible things they have endured, as if being abused as a child is a good thing…
[/quote]
It might also be a product of the anonymity of the internet. It’s not something that comes up that much in conversation in my experience. [/quote]
Although “anonymity” of the internet may give someone courage to “speak” where they normally wouldn’t, it does not explain this tortured logic that permeates every post of the dissent: That I endured this type of punishment, and by comparison this is nothing, and I am okay, therefore, the punishment is okay.
I cannot think of many times a parent could physically punish a child where the parent was not doing so out of anger. If as a parent you are acting out of anger, how can you rationalize such action as “parenting” or “guidance”. Isn’t it just “assault” under the cloak of “parenting”?
Thought experiment:
If you were cool calm and collected, how likely is it that, as a parent, you would approach your child and physically strike them?
Who here has actually struck someone where anger was not the controlling emotion?
And when we do strike our children, exactly what is being taught to them? That you can strike someone when you’re angry? Or, more specifically, what is it that you’re teaching them that could not be communicated without striking? That there are consequences for bad behavior? If so, is the only way to teach a child that there are consequences for bad behavior being struck?
When the dissent can show me a study that children that have been physically punished are better adjusted, more compliant and achieve at higher levels than those that do not, I will step off my soap box and promptly go find one of my kids to beat.
I have a friend who is the father of 4 apparently healthy happy kids. He will occasionally give one of them a smack to interrupt a pattern of undesirable behavior where words have failed. He does this in a calm matter of fact way. His policy is never to allow himself to do this while he’s really angry. He explains to them ahead of time that this is a logical and avoidable consequence of continuing with a behavior after having been asked to stop. He finds this to be effective. I realize that this is not at all the same as the cold shower/hot sauce thing or a real beating, and is probably on par with a quick spanking.
However I think his insisting that he be calm when he does this is interesting. To me it seems different from allowing your anger to overwhelm you until you lash out at your child. I believe the emotional intensity (anger) with which parents deliver corporal punishment has a big impact on how upsetting it is for the kids. This is what I mean by not striking your kids in anger. Naturally anger is the underlying emotion but it is controlled.
I’m still not saying that this is an ideal strategy but it seems better than some. Honestly I’m still trying to figure out where I stand on this issue as it relates to my kids. However I’m pretty sure I can rule out vicious beatings and water torture as being acceptable in my home, even if many here survived much worse and are “OK”.
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
[quote]debraD wrote:
[quote]TD54 wrote:
[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
thread has almost turned into this stupid veiled brag about how tough their parents were on them and the obligatory closing, “and I’m okay”. That’s just plain stupid. I wonder if there are a group of women somewhere writing back and forth comparing stories like, “oh that’s nothing. One finger by your uncle in your pussy is EASY. I had an uncle that liked to use 3”. Followed with, “oh you think you had it tough, my uncle used to fuck me when I was just 10…and I’m okay”. I exaggerate for effect obviously. I know plenty of spoiled pussies that used to get beat. I’ll say it again, if getting beat was the key to success, we wouldn’t have legitimate debates over parenting…we’d just beat them into compliance and being good citizens. And if we want “tough” kids, we give them a beating a make them tough. That sounds pretty stupid right?
[/quote]
Pretty interesting how in this culture, people (mainly men) tend to brag about all of the horrible things they have endured, as if being abused as a child is a good thing…
[/quote]
It might also be a product of the anonymity of the internet. It’s not something that comes up that much in conversation in my experience. [/quote]
Although “anonymity” of the internet may give someone courage to “speak” where they normally wouldn’t, it does not explain this tortured logic that permeates every post of the dissent: That I endured this type of punishment, and by comparison this is nothing, and I am okay, therefore, the punishment is okay.
I cannot think of many times a parent could physically punish a child where the parent was not doing so out of anger. If as a parent you are acting out of anger, how can you rationalize such action as “parenting” or “guidance”. Isn’t it just “assault” under the cloak of “parenting”?
Thought experiment:
If you were cool calm and collected, how likely is it that, as a parent, you would approach your child and physically strike them?
Who here has actually struck someone where anger was not the controlling emotion?
And when we do strike our children, exactly what is being taught to them? That you can strike someone when you’re angry? Or, more specifically, what is it that you’re teaching them that could not be communicated without striking? That there are consequences for bad behavior? If so, is the only way to teach a child that there are consequences for bad behavior being struck?
When the dissent can show me a study that children that have been physically punished are better adjusted, more compliant and achieve at higher levels than those that do not, I will step off my soap box and promptly go find one of my kids to beat. [/quote]
I was mostly commenting on the bragging, not the mindset. I have actually heard the comments said off the internet but not so much in everyday conversation and less frequently as the attitudes towards physical punishment have changed to make it a taboo subject.
Not actually having had to deal with disciplining children I can`t really comment from experience but I do agree with you.
Saying “…and I turned out alright!” is something that always struck me as amusing however because it makes a huge leap that there is a consensus on what is ‘alright’ and whether the speaker qualifies. I’ve heard it come out of the mouth of some bent individuals and had to LOL and shake my head.
[quote]debraD wrote:
Saying “…and I turned out alright!” is something that always struck me as amusing however because it makes a huge leap that there is a consensus on what is ‘alright’ and whether the speaker qualifies. I’ve heard it come out of the mouth of some bent individuals and had to LOL and shake my head.[/quote]
I made this point in the other related thread. Just because “their parents did it” or “had it done to them” makes it OK or legit.
To each their own with their kids. Also as stated before, I give parents a very wide berth to raise their kids how they want. I don’t need/want/care for anyone telling me or making laws how to raise my kids.
This uncle whipping his dumbass teen nephew (all teens are dumbasses btw) is mildly entertaining, but lets face it, if nephew was really into some shit, that belt doesn’t mean anything at all.
Get whooped for a bad report card? Sure, why not, but a kid who has outside influences or that is truly apathetic isn’t magically turned around by an ass kicking or motivated by the threat of a belt. Any parent knows this.
Ditto hot sauce or what-the-fuck-ever your poison is. That hotsauce woman is retarded because the hotsauce (token “mild” inserted here) didn’t work. It simply didn’t motivate the kid to change, so the ‘punishment’ was more about the woman’s failing than the kid’s.
Ditto yelling and screaming at kids. Kids know instinctively where the boundaries are after the first couple ‘infractions’. After that, resorting to yelling and screaming does little. Same with a spanking. “Hands on” (smack or flick or spank) to break the flow of the moment works. It’s real time and often not ‘pre-meditated’.
Kids get used to a certain “baseline” and if yelling/screaming, spanking, hot-sauce (mild… lol), or whatever becomes the ‘baseline’, then it is little effective as a deterrent.
Soap and headsmacks never cleaned up my mouth. Growing into ‘respect for people’ did.
How many times have you said “I’ll just pay the fee” or “I’ll just pay more” or similar? Kids/teens learn the same with punishment.
I can ‘punish’ my kids more effectively with a look or tone of voice than spanking them. When getting spanked or yelled at point blank, all they think about is “I’m getting spanked” or “He’s yelling” not “Oh, I did wrong and won’t do that again”.
Kids behavior is modified more my reward than by punishment. Period. Not unlike training dogs and birds. Probably more like training cats.
Another thought-- those that think ‘beating kids’ is the way to make them tough will have a rude awakening when they actually have children.
Instilling strong values, self-confidence, and humility goes indefinitely farther than brow-beating them into submission and exposing them regularly to ineffective gimmicky punishments.
My (then) 7 year old learned this from a year older ‘bossy bully’ at school. I don’t need to go into detail, but no parental beating could have taught her to stand up to this other kid. Actually impressed the teacher who had to date been unable to diffuse the other kid (with other kids).