What fortunes? Contrary to popular propaganda, slaves did not build this country.
If that were the case, them having not been slaves, they would probably be in Africa.
Where would a lot of people be if we apply this reasoning to other groups? Blacks don’t corner the market on having been oppressed and whites don’t corner the market when it comes to oppressing.
Africa?
I doubt that the US farmers would have had demand for labor from Africa if there was a requirement to pay wages. I am guessing for them to get paid, a majority would remain in Africa.
Had they been paid for their labor, very few would have any sort of fortune to leave to their offspring. Migrant farm workers today face the same challenge of low pay for a lot of work.
And comparing Holocaust reparations to American slavery reparations shows ignorance when it comes to how Holocaust reparations worked. First off, it wasn’t about descendants but heirs.
Yes. They would be exactly there, because when you do grunt work you get shit pay.
You don’t create generational wealth by doing menial labor.
Thinking that anybody would be any better off if great-great-great-great grandpa got paid $.03 per week for bailing cotton is like booking a cruise to Wakanda.
What about the people who lost their slaves? They were never compensated.
My question for you is…
Why do YOU think the DESCENDANTS of people who were previously hard done by deserve reparations?
It’s not just blacks and jews that have been treated badly in the past. Virtually every group/society had an aggrieved
Look into the kingdom of Dahomey. In this case (they were conquered by the French… and outnumbered) the oppression and destruction of their kingdom was 100% deserved.
This is an exception to the rule… but remember that ridiculous film ‘the woman king’. The story about that tribe of amazing female warriors who so bravely took on their white, slave trading oppressors?
The kingdom of Dahomey was actually a brutal regieme that was even more involved in slave trading than the French/British were at the time… as a matter of fact, they were told to ‘knock it off’ multiple times by the British BECAUSE they were so sadistic in the way they went about procuring and selling slaves.
Do you believe descandants of those the Dahomey enslaved deserve reparations? If slavery = reparations then a LOOOOT of people are getting reparations.
Slavery was common in the past.
Unfortunately… it’s still common today. Especially forced labour, sex trafficking and the likes… it’s disgusting… best not to overthink it.
I’m not attacking you here. I just want to know how you’d go about realistically implementing such a scheme.
I’m not provoked with a visceral, gut reaction of “this is morally objectionable!” over people arguing for reparations because I know they probably mean no harm. It’s not like you’re going on a racist tirade… or defending fascism or stalinism… or retconning history (like that woman king film).
It seems like an innocuous enough request… but my response will always be
“what have the descendants done to be deserving of financial support from people who have nothing to do with the circumstances over which reparations are being requested for. Wouldn’t it be better to increase funding for educational facilities, clesn water and the likes within some of these chronically underfunded areas?”
Create opportunity… as opposed to giving people money because their great, great grandparents were victims.
So what was all that free labor about?
Nice dodge.
Because other groups have been oppressed by other groups of oppressors doesn’t change the dynamic at all.
Great news American slaves were paid after all!
So it’s okay to make them slaves?
Says you.
A practice that is frowned upon. Do these people not deserve more pay?
Weren’t you bitching about food companies raising prices? Can’t have it both ways.
So you are okay with reparations for the heirs of slavery, just not descendants?
You do a lot of assuming here. Back in the day, unlike today, wages rose with production. So they, if treated like human beings, would have made more money. And what they would have done with that money is unknowable.
Thinking that people would have been better off if they got paid instead of being slaves is very reasonable.
Seriously, are you fucking kidding me?
No, that isn’t what I am saying. My response was in regards to where African Americans would be now if we were forced to pay their ancestors. Most likely situation is the the US would have very few African Americans.
Says statistics. What percent of African Americans shortly after slavery made enough money to hand down a “fortune” to their offspring? Something that would make their kids set for life?
Most were dirt poor farmers living in poverty. They handed down personal items with sentimental value to their kids, not fortunes (for the most part).
Even in recent history, very few people from the US hand down lots of money to their descendants. Blacks are less likely than average to hand down lots of money.
I’d like everyone who is well meaning to be successful.
At the same time, do you think that even if the same labor laws applied to blacks as whites during the slavery years, that a lot of blacks during that time would have amassed fortunes as low skill workers?
Plenty of low skill white workers from that era didn’t leave much to their descendants. Nothing that could be consider generational wealth.
That’s not the point. The point is that significant generational wealth (like a fortune) couldn’t be obtained by doing farm work for someone else. It was a means to survive.
Do you not believe that people who were once slaves deserved to be paid for their work or are you okay with the ramifications of slavery? People deserve their part in labor and the inheritance that comes with it.
Do people today not get what their parents worked for, even though they didn’t work for it?
And every group deserves what they’ve worked for.
Because I don’t personally have the answer doesn’t mean that others do not.
So I would suppose you are against inheritance?
And you’e assuming that people would pay for it and not the government. People who are direct descendants of oppressors ought to give something to those whom their relatives enslaved. Their fortunes would not be what they are today.
They don’t.
Where would the money come from? Oh right “print more” (we fucking know it is done on a computer now).
I can see this quickly turning into another MMT clusterfuck.
This is going to be a tiny amount of money. It’s not like every dollar I make goes right into a fund for my descendants. If you subtract room and board costs from what the hourly rate would be for that type of work, you don’t end up with much money (the non-slave farm works died with very little as far as assets on average). You can then adjust for inflation, and spread that out among 40 million people for reparations.
Let’s be generous and say adjusted for inflation the average slave had they been paid would have died with $10,000 (which is likely way more than the average white farm worker from that era). There were about 12 million slaves total. If we split that among all the current African Americans, it’s like $2500 each.
No one ever talks about them, but they got seriously screwed over.
Imagine you own a business (try to) and all of a sudden they take all your manpower away.
It was a big blow to cotton farmers and many entrepeneurs saw themselves in dire straits.
Not to mention the consumer, who saw the price of cotton immensely inflated.
Thats hilarious.
Tell me more about these good old days of fair wages for hard work.
