Turn Over Your (Legal) Firearm

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
NRA’s Wayne LaPierre Slams Seizure of Guns in New Orleans
Newsmax | September 13 2005

National Rifle Association (NRA) leader Wayne LaPierre slammed New Orleans authorities Monday for seizing legal firearms from lawful residents.

“What we’ve seen in Louisiana - the breakdown of law and order in the aftermath of disaster - is exactly the kind of situation where the Second Amendment was intended to allow citizens to protect themselves,” LaPierre said.

“When law enforcement isn’t available, Americans turn to the one right that protects all the others - the right to keep and bear arms,” LaPierre added. “This attempt to repeal the Second Amendment should be condemned.”

The New York Times reported last Thursday that no civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to have guns, quoting the superintendent of police that “only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons.” [/quote]
Who is appointed by the mayor, who is a Democrat [quote]

A Louisiana state statute allows the chief law enforcement officer [/quote]
That would be the Governer, a Democrat. [quote]

to “regulate possession” of firearms during declared emergencies. “But regulate doesn’t mean confiscate,” said Chris W. Cox, the NRA’s chief lobbyist.

[/quote]

Conclusion: Vote Republican.

42

[quote]SWR-1222D wrote:
Couldn’t I hire my brother to “protect” my failing work-at-home “business”, and he can hire me for the same.

I realy can’t understand their logic in taking away registered fire arms.

I’m sure their defence is that Martial Law was declared to restore order and we need to take drastic measures to ensure everyone’s safety, yadda yadda yadda…

I kind of hope a LOT of people fight back and keep their registered firearms (though I don’t think it will happen).

Wasn’t the expected life expectancy of a democracy around 200 years?

I think the Roman Empire was the previous longest lasting democracy, which lasted around 200 years.

The government is getting out of control with their thirst for power.

People can only be pushed so far before pusing back, although Americans are much more conditioned for laziness and conformity than a couple hundred years ago which makes it much easier for our government to take advantage of us.[/quote]

The Roman Empire was in no way a democracy and the Empire lasted over 500 years. Prior to that it was a republic for approx. another 500 years. The Eastern Roman Empire lasted until 1485 when the Ottoman Turks overran it.

Democracy as we understand it and practice it is a phenomenon of the last 200 years or so. America was created as a republic, not a democracy.

WMD

43

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:

Who is appointed by the mayor, who is a Democrat

That would be the Governer, a Democrat.

Conclusion: Vote Republican.[/quote]

So because I’m critical of Bush I’m automatically a Democrat? Right, and my favorite basketball team is the Washington Generals.

Not every Republican is too happy with Bush right now, are you aware of that?

Quite frankly I don’t know who’s in charge at the moment since the whole thing seems rather vague but try and recall the lead-up to the 2004 election. Remember how we were all going to lose more gun rights if Kerry got elected?

So where is the Republican shitstorm denouncing this gun grab by the Democrats?

No, this ain’t football!
"Now- you republicans, out there, who are still clinging to Bush, out of sheer determination:

If you wanna be a republican, fine. You wanna vote republican, because you’re a conservative, and you have no other choice? Fine-

But you have to stop viewing politics, and the fate of our nation, as if it were pro football. Yeah- I know- you want to cheer for your team, defend it when it’s down, and rally around the “star player”- it’s fun, I know…

Let me break this gently… Your star lineman has just tested positive for steroids, while sniffing coke with a prostitute in the back of a '78 chevette. The Quarterback was found vacationing in an shack in the Wyoming foothills, watching “Scarface” over and over, in a room littered with dead boy scouts. The rest of your team was found in a dirty basement in Singapore, chewing gum, and betting on cockfights while trading in teenage Vietnamese male whores.

Keep your ideology- keep your party- it’s all good… However- I have to ask all republicans, here, and now:

Rats have the brains to leave a sinking ship- why can’t you muster the same mental fortitude?

Stand with the rest of America, and demand accountability from the people whom you rallied around, for so long- they owe you, at the very least, that much…"

http://gaelicstarover.blogspot.com/2005/09/no-this-aint-football.html

44

Dear NRA Member,

Who exactly are your weapons going to defend you from during a natural disaster? If marshall law is declared your three or four automatic weapons will only make the pigs laugh while they blow the shit out of your rusty, tin-roof shack (remember David Koresh?). Then you will die and then they will still take your weapons. Pigs, 1–Trigger-happy NRA cult leader, zilch.

P.S. Don’t you think the 2nd Amendment applies to state militias and not individuals?

“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed”

The operative phrase in this sentence being “regulated militia”. A regulated militia means one in which the organized body has rules and “regulations” which it is responsible to uphold. How are ordinary citizens that are not responsible to any regulated militia covered by the second amendment?

45

[quote]vroom wrote:
I believe that clip of the old lady being body slammed was shown on CNN as well. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

This old lady is showing a revolver, probably explaining how she feels safe in her home…

All of a sudden you see her body slammed as if she was an Al Queda operative!

What the hell?[/quote]

If you flash a gun to a cop you are lucky if you do not get shot, even if you are showing no attempt to use it.

Police often appear to overreact to these types of situations although it is easier to second guess than it is to make a quick decision.

The lesson is do not show a gun to the police, do not reach for anything that could be mistaken for a gun, do not run from the police.

When you deal with the police you have to act like they are a strange dog. Move deliberately and treat them with respect or you may end up being bitten.

46

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Dear NRA Member,

Who exactly are your weapons going to defend you from during a natural disaster? If marshall law is declared your three or four automatic weapons will only make the pigs laugh while they blow the shit out of your rusty, tin-roof shack (remember David Koresh?). Then you will die and then they will still take your weapons. Pigs, 1–Trigger-happy NRA cult leader, zilch.

P.S. Don’t you think the 2nd Amendment applies to state militias and not individuals?

“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed”

The operative phrase in this sentence being “regulated militia”. A regulated militia means one in which the organized body has rules and “regulations” which it is responsible to uphold. How are ordinary citizens that are not responsible to any regulated militia covered by the second amendment? [/quote]

Militia -

noun: civilians trained as soldiers but not part of the regular army

noun: the entire body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service
http://www.onelook.com/?w=militia&ls=a

The inherent rights of the Constitution apply to ALL citizens of the US and the Constitution itself was formed to provide checks and balances for protection of the people FROM (another) tyrannical government.

“When the resolution of enslaving America was formed in Great Britain, the British Parliament was advised by an artful man, who was governor of Pennsylvania, to disarm the people; that it was the best and most effectual way to enslave them; but that they should not do it openly, but weaken them, and let them sink gradually. . . . I ask, who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
–George Mason, Virginia’s U.S. Constitution ratification convention, 1788

“How soon we forget history… Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force. And, like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.”
–George Washington

47

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
Militia -

noun: civilians trained as soldiers but not part of the regular army

noun: the entire body of physically fit civilians eligible by law for military service
http://www.onelook.com/?w=militia&ls=a

The inherent rights of the Constitution apply to ALL citizens of the US and the Constitution itself was formed to provide checks and balances for protection of the people FROM (another) tyrannical government.
[/quote]
But who are they responsible to and what “arms” does the constitution give them the right to bear? tanks, cannons, nuclear weapons? If people have an inherent right to protect themsleves with the use of “arms” then who decides what if any arms they may have. Are “arms” pistols and rifles or does it extend to the greater sense of all weapons in general. If the U.S govornment cannot take away the citizens right to bear arms against it then how does it ask other countries to give up it’s sovereign right to nuclear proliferation?

Just wondering where the line is.

EDIT: If the point of the 2nd amendment is to give people the right to protect themselves against tyrannical governments then how does it apply to personal protection against armed thugs? If the above statement is true then how also does owning a pistol and hunting rifle protect one from a large, heavily equipped military like our own? Does this not in fact make the 2nd amendment pointless if the “regulated militia” is not armed suitably to defend itself?

48

[quote]If you flash a gun to a cop you are lucky if you do not get shot, even if you are showing no attempt to use it.

Police often appear to overreact to these types of situations although it is easier to second guess than it is to make a quick decision.

The lesson is do not show a gun to the police, do not reach for anything that could be mistaken for a gun, do not run from the police.

When you deal with the police you have to act like they are a strange dog. Move deliberately and treat them with respect or you may end up being bitten.[/quote]

Zap, just for once, could you just shut the hell up when you see me post something. You keep adding this bland tripe which really adds nothing.

Did you see the clip?

Don’t give me some dumb ass lecture on how to behave around the police. Get real.

49

[quote]vroom wrote:
If you flash a gun to a cop you are lucky if you do not get shot, even if you are showing no attempt to use it.

Police often appear to overreact to these types of situations although it is easier to second guess than it is to make a quick decision.

The lesson is do not show a gun to the police, do not reach for anything that could be mistaken for a gun, do not run from the police.

When you deal with the police you have to act like they are a strange dog. Move deliberately and treat them with respect or you may end up being bitten.

Zap, just for once, could you just shut the hell up when you see me post something. You keep adding this bland tripe which really adds nothing.

Did you see the clip?

Don’t give me some dumb ass lecture on how to behave around the police. Get real.[/quote]

vroom, I don’t think I have ever seen you post anything positive in the political threads.

50

I don’t know Zap, perhaps you don’t pay much attention.

Did you check out the thread about Bush taking responsibility?

Something I’ve noticed around these parts is that people don’t give much credit when you actually do post against what regular readers have pegged as your preconceived political leanings.

51

[quote]BigRJ wrote:
Molon Labe “come and take them” RKBA.

Slim Jim wrote:
That’s why you shouldn’t register your weapons…instead buy yourself a mac-10 from the dealer on the corner:

…Nice post. Your intelligence towards firearms is the reason why are 2nd amendement rights are on the verge of distinction. Mac-10 hell why not an AK-47…[/quote]

OBVIOUSLY because the ak-47 is so loud it could be heard clear across town. Instead of a mac-10, I’d suggest a TMP

52

[quote]The Mage wrote:
“Guns don’t kill people. Those little tiny bullets do.”

Criminals have been interviewed in prison, and guess what? They never register their guns, nor do they buy them at the local dealer.

Gun control only takes guns away from law abiding citizens, and actually has the reverse effect on crime.[/quote]

That’s not the whole story. Criminals are less likely to carry guns- and if they do carry them they are less likely to use them- if they don’t expect the victim to have a gun.

53

[quote]JustTheFacts wrote:
So because I’m critical of Bush I’m automatically a Democrat? Right, and my favorite basketball team is the Washington Generals.

Not every Republican is too happy with Bush right now, are you aware of that?

Quite frankly I don’t know who’s in charge at the moment since the whole thing seems rather vague but try and recall the lead-up to the 2004 election. Remember how we were all going to lose more gun rights if Kerry got elected?

So where is the Republican shitstorm denouncing this gun grab by the Democrats?

No, this ain’t football!
"Now- you republicans, out there, who are still clinging to Bush, out of sheer determination:

If you wanna be a republican, fine. You wanna vote republican, because you’re a conservative, and you have no other choice? Fine-

But you have to stop viewing politics, and the fate of our nation, as if it were pro football. Yeah- I know- you want to cheer for your team, defend it when it’s down, and rally around the “star player”- it’s fun, I know…

Let me break this gently… Your star lineman has just tested positive for steroids, while sniffing coke with a prostitute in the back of a '78 chevette. The Quarterback was found vacationing in an shack in the Wyoming foothills, watching “Scarface” over and over, in a room littered with dead boy scouts. The rest of your team was found in a dirty basement in Singapore, chewing gum, and betting on cockfights while trading in teenage Vietnamese male whores.[/quote]

Wow, that’s one hell of an anology. Except for the fact that it makes absolutely no sense. [quote]

Keep your ideology- keep your party- it’s all good… However- I have to ask all republicans, here, and now:

Rats have the brains to leave a sinking ship- why can’t you muster the same mental fortitude?

Stand with the rest of America, and demand accountability from the people whom you rallied around, for so long- they owe you, at the very least, that much…"

http://gaelicstarover.blogspot.com/2005/09/no-this-aint-football.html

[/quote]

The point is JTF, the folks that ordered the gun confiscations are Democrats. How does this have one damn thing to do with Bush, Republicans, or the Federal gov’t?

54

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Dear NRA Member,

Who exactly are your weapons going to defend you from during a natural disaster? If marshall law is declared your three or four automatic weapons will only make the pigs laugh while they blow the shit out of your rusty, tin-roof shack (remember David Koresh?). Then you will die and then they will still take your weapons. Pigs, 1–Trigger-happy NRA cult leader, zilch.

P.S. Don’t you think the 2nd Amendment applies to state militias and not individuals?

“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed”

The operative phrase in this sentence being “regulated militia”. A regulated militia means one in which the organized body has rules and “regulations” which it is responsible to uphold. How are ordinary citizens that are not responsible to any regulated militia covered by the second amendment? [/quote]

“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed”

Read it again. Notice that comma in there? A militia is necessary, THEREFORE, the people have the right to keep & bear arms.

55

Liftus, please read the 2nd amendment before you comment on it.

I’d like to take this opportunity to ask all of y’all to own a firearm of some sort, even if it’s just a 38 pistol or something, and to please practice good gun safety.

I keep my piece under my pillow. :slight_smile:

56

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Dear NRA Member,

Who exactly are your weapons going to defend you from during a natural disaster? If marshall law is declared your three or four automatic weapons will only make the pigs laugh while they blow the shit out of your rusty, tin-roof shack (remember David Koresh?). Then you will die and then they will still take your weapons. Pigs, 1–Trigger-happy NRA cult leader, zilch.
[/quote]

Have you never seen Red Dawn?

WOLVERINES!!!

57

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
“A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed”

Read it again. Notice that comma in there? A militia is necessary, THEREFORE, the people have the right to keep & bear arms.
[/quote]
Yeah, “regulated”, meaning fallig under some sort of regulations. Who makes the regulations–the U.S./state gov’ts? If the point of the 2nd amendment is to give people the rights to defend themselves against tyrannical gov’t (like the framers might have forseen of this very gov’t) then what is the point if they are the regulators?

Secondly, isn’t it our military that protects the other 9 rights in the Bill of Rights via the second amendment. It seems like a) either the average person is already out gunned by the US military or b) the Military is already protecting our rights thus making this right totally useless to me either way.

58

[quote]reddog6376 wrote:
Read it again. Notice that comma in there? A militia is necessary, THEREFORE, the people have the right to keep & bear arms.
[/quote]
So I should read it as, “because we must have a military to protect the freedom of this State, the people have the right to keep and bear arms to protect itself from the military?”

Again, it seems pointless to me because you will never defend yourself adequately against the US military? A .38 will only be usefull to put a bullet in your own brain when you realize the futility of further aggression.

59

“people” is the important word to understand.

The second ammendment is designed to protect the people from the government.

60

Lift,

I think you miss the point.

Honestly, if the people, and by that I mean “THE PEOPLE” of the United States rose up against the government, there simply wouldn’t be enough bullets to put down the rebellion.

Think about it.

Having the abilty to carry weapons enables the populace to rise up, in numbers, if the government behaves so poorly that the people are forced to do so. Whether or not the military could or would be able to overpower any small group of armed civilians is certainly not the issue.

–

Again, I’d prefer to see spot checks to help ensure that only the law abiding can openly carry the weapons around. Let’s tilt the playing field in the proper direction!

It would be very similar to the impaired driving programs where they simply pull every car over and check to see if the driver has been drinking. Pick an area and put everyone there through a metal detector. Show a license or have it confiscated and do a search for outstanding warrants while you are at it.

Imagine if that was done on a random basis in some of the major cities at any time of day or night. You’d be afraid to carry if you weren’t licensed… which is as it should be.