Truth or Myth?

Pharma
1

i keep hearing this statement alot and i would like some informative person to clarify please " if u take steroids u won’t be able to progress without them " i can’t understand y?

also is this applicable to all steroids for instance test. and var, test is a strong drug while var according to what i’ve read is a mild drug. i don’t plan of using steroids now because iam not 100% commited to bodybuilding because iam a rower , but if i choose to use i’d use the stronger drug if iam going to be shutdown anyways.

now what if i did a test cycle after that would i cease any natty gains i could make ?

2

the thing is… Supraphysiological androgen levels have been shown to reduce the number of receptors there are… making your body almost ‘resistant’ to testosterone - whether that is yours or bottled gear.
This is the reason why ever larger doses are needed (although many take this much too far IMO jumping 500mg from one cycle to the next).

Theoretically, if you abuse steroids for any period of time (abuse - supraphysiological doses - again JMO), you should become ‘de-sensitised’ to testosterone to some unknown degree.

In reality, a few moderate cycles wont make THAT much difference as there are many other factors involved in muscle growth.
(I read something once where a rat had been ‘de-testicled’ and given shocks in a particular muscle forcing contraction - there was growth!)
I for some reason never lose muscle tissue like others seem to when i have next to no testosterone production…

Plus i can say that after my first couple of bullshit cycles of Diannaballs, i managed to do fairly well over the following 5/6 years au naturel.

Does this help?

In summary, there is some truth to that rumour, but is isnt quite as cut and dried as that - when is it? :wink:

JJ

3

From my experience I have found that I’ve been able to make “normal” gains after a cycle.

I think that people’s view on making gains changes after they’ve done a cycle. While on a cycle it is entirely possible to simultaneously gain a good amount of muscle and lose fat, or at least not gain any. When training naturally much more precision and dedication with diet and training is required to gain muscle AND keep fat gain to a minimum. (I’m not saying that steroids make up for poor diet and training)

This may skew people’s perception of their ability to make gains when not on a cycle. It is easy to see how one can become jaded by the results of a cycle.

Age and natural test levels may also play a role in this. An older guy coming off of a cycle may have a tougher time gaining naturally than a younger guy coming off, who has higher test levels

EDIT: i just looked at your profile and saw that you’re 5 10 130 pounds… that can’t be healthy. I’m well aware I’m not the biggest guy around but seriously steroids should be the last thing on your mind.

4

In my experiences I have about a month of feeling like a weak immediately following my cycle during PCT. Then when my natural test kicks back in I make pretty exceptional gains for about another month. Then I level off back to normal.

*The exceptional gains also probably have something to do with the fact that I am lifting and eating like crazy because I HATE losing weight during PCT, and this carries over to when my natural test kicks back in and BAM, quick gains!

5

[quote]dyskee wrote:
now what if i did a test cycle after that would i cease any natty gains i could make ?[/quote]

I’ve seen some of your posts and I assume you’re just thinking aloud here, but I’ll still point out that you MUST make at least 50lbs of “natty gains” before actually considering any test cycle.

6

thnx all now i get y people make that claim.

bone :smiley: iam a light weight rower thats why iam 130 but belive me i look much bigger than iam i can post a pic if u like :smiley:

don’t worry chillain i don’t plan on using until i quit rowing which might take a good 2-5 years depending on my goals. plus i was 200 lbs a year and a half ago , granted some of it was fat but my body is accustomed to carrying a big weight.

jj thnx alot man :smiley: but i’ll wait

7

No need for that dude, I was just pointing it out because it sounded like you were alot closer to starting a cycle than you’ve said in your most recent post. You seem to have your head on straight and you don’t need to justify your current physique goals to the steroid board, so long as you don’t start a cycle at 130 pounds lol.

8

Thnx man , it’s just that rowing is hopefully my ticket to a good college u know rowing for college plus my good grades can help me so i won’t mess that for a couple of pounds :smiley:

9

[quote] JJ wrote:
the thing is… Supraphysiological androgen levels have been shown to reduce the number of receptors there are… making your body almost ‘resistant’ to testosterone - whether that is yours or bottled gear.

This is the reason why ever larger doses are needed (although many take this much too far IMO jumping 500mg from one cycle to the next).

Theoretically, if you abuse steroids for any period of time (abuse - supraphysiological doses - again JMO), you should become ‘de-sensitised’ to testosterone to some unknown degree.

In reality, a few moderate cycles wont make THAT much difference as there are many other factors involved in muscle growth.
(I read something once where a rat had been ‘de-testicled’ and given shocks in a particular muscle forcing contraction - there was growth!)
I for some reason never lose muscle tissue like others seem to when i have next to no testosterone production…

Plus i can say that after my first couple of bullshit cycles of Diannaballs, i managed to do fairly well over the following 5/6 years au naturel.

Does this help?

In summary, there is some truth to that rumour, but is isnt quite as cut and dried as that - when is it? :wink:

JJ[/quote]

I use to think the same thing about androgen receptors and AAS use. Then someone corrected me and it sent me to the literature. I found that androgens actually increase the number of AR in muscle tissue. I had been looking at other tissues.

Still, those studies, from what I can recall, were short. I don’t know what might happen on long exposure of ultra high supraphysiologic levels. I still think they drop over time but can’t find any research that looks over the time period of a typical AAS cycle.

After cessation of the AAS use, given a long enough abstinence period I would think the whole system normalizes though just like with other drugs. I stopped AAS use for nearly 10 years and made gains in arms and legs. My squat especially improved. So, it is possible to improve after AAS use is discontinued.

The receptor bit, I am still not certain about. However, it does seem that they increase on administration, at least initially. Look at the review below on page 25 bottom of first column into the second column.

Journal of Endocrinology (2005) 186, 21�??31

10

Not sure how to use that ‘link’ mate… googled it but… ?

Got a link type link?

11

I just PMed you the article. Let me know if it comes through.

12

[quote]pickapeck wrote:
JJ

I use to think the same thing about androgen receptors and AAS use. Then someone corrected me and it sent me to the literature. I found that androgens actually increase the number of AR in muscle tissue. I had been looking at other tissues.

Still, those studies, from what I can recall, were short. I don’t know what might happen on long exposure of ultra high supraphysiologic levels. I still think they drop over time but can’t find any research that looks over the time period of a typical AAS cycle.

After cessation of the AAS use, given a long enough abstinence period I would think the whole system normalizes though just like with other drugs. I stopped AAS use for nearly 10 years and made gains in arms and legs. My squat especially improved. So, it is possible to improve after AAS use is discontinued.

The receptor bit, I am still not certain about. However, it does seem that they increase on administration, at least initially. Look at the review below on page 25 bottom of first column into the second column.

Journal of Endocrinology (2005) 186, 21�??31
[/quote]

I agree. Receptors do not down-regulate and may up-regulate in fact.

The reason a cycle may not be as effective over time is due to being at a higher setpoint thus needing higher amounts to keep progressing. Not because the receptors down-regulate.

13

I will have to find the article i read where it said supraphys. dosages of androgens actually caused LOSS of receptors…

Unless it is really JUST wrong!

14

[quote] JJ wrote:
I will have to find the article i read where it said supraphys. dosages of androgens actually caused LOSS of receptors…

Unless it is really JUST wrong![/quote]

I would be interested in seeing tha article. Did you get the review?

15

hmm… i really dont know where i read it… i’ll search… yes i did.

I havent read it yet - i have scanned it and it seems right up my alley (i am innerested in satellite cells at the moment too due to my use of slin off cycle)

Thankyou, it looks like a good read.

JJ

16

so if i take 500 mg test E for 10 weeks then i lay off steroids for a year or two years and take 500mg test E i should make the same if not better gains right?

17

That answer is a very sbujective one and will differ depedning on the user. It would be hard for any of us to say how YOU would react to 2 cycles with a year in between. Plenty of other factors are involved with a sucessful cycle than which compound is used and when it is used.

18

ofcourse bonez i know it depends on many factors , i was just making sure i got what dope was saying :smiley:

19

ok I dont know all the science behind it,but I think its like any drug after a while your body gets used to it,so you need more and more to work.

take a drinker for example.
you got your lightweights and then when you drink for a while it takes more and more to get you drunk.

now gear is no where near like what drinking is but I do beleive its the same concept there.

20

But say that heavyweight drinker stopped drinking for 6 months or more, do you think it will take him the same amount to get drunk as it did when he was drinking 3-4 nights a week.

This may be another good reason to intelligently cycle steroids … or it may not, I have no idea.

In the past I did a 500mg/wk cycle for 8 weeks and a 750mg/wk for 8 weeks + 30mg/d Dbol for 4. Those were done about a year apart. I picked up some Test 350 so in a few months I’m going to do 700mg/wk with a prop kickstart for 10 weeks and some proviron towards the end. Im going to track my results…but since I did that first cycle at too young an age my results may be of little merit to the point of this thread.