You don’t like Trump so you don’t think he will accept his VP’s advice?
Who chose Pence? Why did he choose Pence? Uh huh…
You are showing your political naivete again. Both Ksuhner and Ivanka fully understand the importance of Trump fulfilling his number one promise. They also understand that if there is to be a second term that he must either fulfill that promise or come close. And both want this badly as that is the only way that either keeps their power base. Do you honestly think that Kushner wants to go back to being a relative nobody when he is this close to power? Do you think Ivanka is up nights hoping that Daddy will be a one termer?
Think again!
Wrong again, what he is doing is attempting to expand that base that we talked about earlier. It was never popular with most of the population to pull children out of the country and send them back to Mexico. This was unpopular especially with women who conjured up images of black booted federal agents pulling a baby from his mothers arms and sending the poor child back to Mexico as an orphan (it would never happen but that is the image).
This is one of his smartest political moves as it not only gains him new support (eventually) but it loses him nothing with his core base. How many Trump supporters will abandon him when he allows children to stay on? None! Now think of how that plays with the female vote. While he won the white female vote something like 54% to 47% (oops can I mention that or does it break one of your odd rules of posting?) He can further gain females when he shows compassion to the children. You are not thinking clearly.
Said out of hate not clear thinking political analysis.
But…but…Obamacare isn’t over with is it? But…but you hate him so it is over in your mind. See what I’m saying? You are too overly emotional for this stuff.
Because YOU think he’s a buffoon. More projection on your part as you hate Trump. They will work with him.
And if you understood the process better you would know that one does not have to be a “natural ally” in order to move along with an agenda that they mostly agree with, or have you not heard the old adage, “politics makes strange bedfellows”. By the way JFK hated LBJ but chose him as his VP in 1960 because he needed Texas. There are tons more examples in fact that is politics TB…
There is plenty you need to learn about this stuff TB. But unfortunately never admitting you are wrong will hold you back from that education. If one thinks they already know everything there is certainly nothing to learn --right?
And this is when I know that you have nothing left. You are out of points…out of ideas…out of gas. And quite honestly I am surprised that you waited this long to bring that up. It is your favorite go to when you are losing…or in this case getting schooled.
Based on, for example, Pence being kept out of the loop on the Flynn fiasco when Pence was at the center of it? Based on the fact that Kushner’s portfolio of responsibility continue to expand in areas where a VP’s role traditionally does? Do you read the news at all and form any independent judgments of your own?[quote=“zeb1, post:6884, topic:223365”]
Both Ksuhner and Ivanka fully understand the importance of Trump fulfilling his number one promise.
[/quote]
They were instrumental in getting the Breitbart wing kicked to the curb when Trump’s signature campaign issue was immigration - smart money says Kushner and Ivanka are trying to move a Trump away from immigration not toward it. Otherwise, they’d be getting Bannon marginalized at the same time they’re saying press forwrd with the controversial wall? Nope. Do you read the news? At all? Or just the pre-approved GOP talking points mailer?
Who said it was over? Did you read my post? I didn’t say it was over. I said it flopped within the 100 days and had robbed him of an early victory and Trump is still smarting from it and needs a win now.
This would all be better if you could actually read what I wrote. [quote=“zeb1, post:6884, topic:223365”]
Because YOU think he’s a buffoon.
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No, I really think they think he’s a buffoon.[quote=“zeb1, post:6884, topic:223365”]
And if you understood the process better you would know that one does not have to be a “natural ally” in order to move along with an agenda that they mostly agree with, or have you not heard the old adage, “politics makes strange bedfellows”. By the way JFK hated LBJ but chose him as his VP in 1960 because he needed Texas. There are tons more examples in fact that is politics TB…
[/quote]
Here’s the thing, “political expert” - I didn’t say you have to have natural allies to move an agenda. My point is that it certainly helps, and I’ve never seen a president so bereft of natural allies in Congress. That makes the circumstances very unusual, and difficult.
Wouldn’t it just be better to discuss points I actually made rather than inventing ones I didn’t and then attacking them?
I have thought along this line for months. His only allies left, right, or center seem to be his voters. Unfortunately with voters having next to zero influence in policy, procedure, or top down governance - Trump has set up his castle on an island.
I agree his narcissism is his Achilles heel, rather than lack of elected experience, lack of advancement through a non-Trump enterprise, or even smarts.
In summation, I think he rode in on a perfect storm of Hillary, conservative duality, a last ditch attempt to maintain a rapidly disappearing blue collar ideal, and selling a hell of a sizzle with no steak in sight.
Having said that, I still believe he has street smarts and a highly accomplished Cabinet (some I don’t like) going about business with little fanfare.
We need some of his conservative positions to be enacted, even if they were only carelessly tossed out slogans/platitudes for him. *
No, my point is that you are trying to get me to take at face value something true about your personal life in hopes of helping yourself, and based on how dishonest you’ve been in the past, there simply no reason to believe those things to be true. That makes sense, right?
And, no I’m not “losing” - only thing we’ve learned is you don’t think half as deeply as you pretend to on this stuff.
Pence may have been kept out of the Flynn fiasco to protect Pence. Why get him involved? How does it help to taint him? Think TB>>>you gotta think. Nothing that Kushner does negates the fact that Pence has the experience and gravitas to handle those in the House and Senate. Trump picked him remember. Why? He could have picked someone else. Think TB!
You have not answered my questions about Ivanka and Kushner wanting to keep power. You have no answer for why both would want to see Trump lose a reelection bid. Explain that. You have to get over that one before you move on to the Brietbart episode which is actually unrelated. Think TB!
You are giving it far too much importance in the long-term scheme of things it won’t matter nor even be remembered IF he gets an overhaul to Obamacare done. Do you think otherwise?
Yes, that’s all well and good but what do you base this on? You think he’s a buffoon we all know that. But what makes you think THEY think he’s a buffoon? Do you have some evidence of this? Did you read this in a reputable journal or media outlet? Did they back it up with specific comments from most of those players? Well?
Your assertion was he won’t get anything done because he doesn’t have any “natural allies”. You read my answer and now you are backing away from your original (not very well thought out) assertion.
Oh your point now is that it helps to have natural allies…Well, yes I like your new position better than your original. And I agree with it.
Heh. Delightful. Zeb and his semantics. Zeb doesn’t actually call literally everyone “butt boy” and he thinks it’s a “gotcha” moment.
I’ll clear it up for you, but actually makes you look worse - during the 2016 election, you heaped insults and personal attacks of varying degrees on (off the top of my head, not going back to research):
Me
USMC
Smh23
Aragorn
Activities Guy (I think)
Perhaps there were others. USMC was the proud recipient of “butt boy” insults, specifically. The insults in my direction were particularly nasty, insinuating I had substance abuse problems or had marital problems (as I recall).
So, not interested in a lecture on decorum. Thanks. Let’s move on to the topic at hand.
You are losing “big league” as the man you hate so much likes to say. You are getting schooled. All that you know you read in the newspapers, or online…and yes from a dishonest media. You don’t have the experience to fully understand what you are reading. You take most things at face value when there is always an underlying reason that a press release is given. An underlying reason that a bill is delayed.
My point is that there are reasons never read about or reported. You are not only unable to understand this you are totally clueless as to what they are and why it is done.
And finally and most importantly you are far, far too emotional to give an accurate read on anyone or anything that you do not like. That includes Donald Trump.
Oh you got it right this time. That means that I didn’t call “everyone butt boy” did I?
That means that you willfully lied as you were there and read it as it was happening and new about it. But that didn’t stop you from lying about on this thread.
And as long as we are on the topic of name calling I honestly don’t think there is anyone who takes second place to you in that department. Do you realize how many times that you put people down on this site? Just the other day I was reviewing the thread on biology of race where you insulted Raj numerous times. Does that make you feel special? Do you somehow cancel those out in your mind because you are just so righteous that it doesn’t matter?
Now tell me have you apologized to Raj as I did USMC (and he did with me).?
Wait…don’t answer because we all already know the answer. The great Thunderbolt apologizes to no one at any time. That would mean that he is admitting that he’s wrong and he NEVER DOES THAT.
Get off your high horse posters on this site are not stupid. They may not want to engage you when they think you’re wrong because they don’t have the time or desire to trade 80 posts with you. But trust me they know when you’re wrong even though you NEVER EVER ADMIT IT.
You’re speculating this is the case. Ok, so? You ask why I have my reasons to think why I do, I gave them to you. You have your reasons to speculate on what you think is happening. Ok, you didn’t disprove any of my reasons for thinking the way I do, you just think a different way. Super. I don’t especially care, I was responding to Treco. And most importantly, you’ll note that I said I hoped Trump was listening to Pence, I just didn’t think he was.
Well, you haven’t answered my questions why a last on pill approach on the wall is a good idea, so let’s have it - but in any event, pushing for the wall doesn’t necessarily help re-election, mainly because there’s no chance Mexico is going to pay for it. Moreover, if they truly thought controversial immigration policies were the way to go to win re-election, they wouldn’t have elbowed the Breitbart wing aside. That makes no sense.[quote=“zeb1, post:6891, topic:223365”]
You are giving it far too much importance in the long-term scheme of things it won’t matter nor even be remembered IF he gets an overhaul to Obamacare done. Do you think otherwise?
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I’m not giving it importance at all, genius, I’m talking about what Trump gives importance. An Obamacare win next year won’t help a Trump right now, and a Trump wants a win right now. That’s the point. It’s important to him.
Good Lord. [quote=“zeb1, post:6891, topic:223365”]
But what makes you think THEY think he’s a buffoon? Do you have some evidence of this?
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Because they read his Twitter feed.
No, I didn’t. Go back and read what I wrote to Treco.
One must have allies, even if only an issue by issue basis. If that is the only way you can operate, we can compliment as being a great ‘politician’.
Trump has no experience as an elected official, where it is difficult to coerce the outcome you want or an ideological base to ‘caucus’ with. Running a business empire with no board, progeny as your sole lieutenants, and browbeating rivals/officials/partners is autocratic leadership.
But a smart guy will build alliances, horse-trade for votes, quit poking the bear (media) that doesn’t suffer if you denigrate it, and learn from your failures quickly and adjust.
That’s it. He doesn’t have good relationships with any one party or wing of a party. He’s too reactive to people who disagree with him, so that he torches the common ground he may have with them. He alienates himself.[quote=“treco, post:6889, topic:223365”]
In summation, I think he rode in on a perfect storm of Hillary, conservative duality, a last ditch attempt to maintain a rapidly disappearing blue collar ideal, and selling a hell of a sizzle with no steak in sight.
[/quote]
Yes, it was all marketing, and he caught the perfect storm with Hillary as candidate. And now, as someone else said, he’s the dog who caught the car. Now what?
No shit… Lets bring back blockbuster video and myspace too… While were at wasting money on dumb shit we can build a giant wall through mountains and shit… and just for good measure lets start a few more wars those are always cheap and fruitful… Whatever keeps the honey boo boo folks happy
[quote=“thunderbolt23, post:6897, topic:223365”]
You’re speculating this is the case.[/quote]
What are you doing? You are assuming Trump is either not smart enough or too egotistical to call on Pence to help when that’s probably why he chose him.
I never said it was a “good idea” those are your words. I am saying that it can be done and in fact if any part of the wall is built before reelection time Trumps plea to the public is “let me finish the job that the opposition party has fought so hard to prevent.”
Also, Mexico can pay for the wall in many different forms as you know. It does not have to be in the traditional sense. And you’ve mentioned Brietbart several times now without actually knowing why he was “pushed to the side” as you say. Can you tell me categorically why he was minimized? Do you actually know the facts? No. But you assume that everything Brietbart wanted is now going by the wayside because he has been minimized. That is a great leap of faith on your part.
I’ve answered your question now tell me why you think Ivanka and husband want to lose power in four years by telling Daddy not to build the way–go ahead I’m all ears and eyes.
Again you assume that is what is important to him. And is what is important to him actually important to his reelection or even his legacy? No. Again you are not thinking. Obamacare overhaul could be done at mid-year, next year matters not. By the time he is up for reelection if obamacare is overhauled and the wall is at least partially built he increases his chances for a win.
So what’s important to “him” in the short term means nothing in the long-term. You should have been able to figure that one out…but nope.
I see, so his populace approach to using twitter causes those in the Senate and the House to think he’s a buffoon. One more great leap taken by you. And why do you think this way? Because YOU think he’s a buffoon based on his twitter feed. Once again poor political analysis based solely on emotion. You are nothing if not consistent. Consistently wrong!
