Even better for non-violent offenders currently in prison they can work their way out. Maybe even some violent offenders (simple assault not murder or rape).
For the non-violents I would even give them an option to work 500 more hours and come out with NO RECORD. Their debt to society would actually be paid.
Imagine if every non-violent person leaving prison could do basic carpentry, plumbing, welding, cooking…(something) and had no record. They would be way more likely not to re commit.
That would only leave two groups to rot in cages. The violent and the lazy. I’m good with that.
Oh but they really already do this for government organizations and private corporations. It’s well known, an entire documentary entitled “13th” was made about it.
“Whole Foods is one of the buyers of fish and cheese produced by Colorado prison inmates through a unique prison labor arrangement in the state that allows inmates to work for the profit of a private corporation. Other companies, including Hyvee and Murray’s Cheese, also sell products made by prison laborers, though recent attention has focused squarely on Whole Foods.”
Dental Lab Work
At Florida’s Union Correctional Institution, inmates are paid roughly 50 cents an hour to make crowns, bridges, and dentures inside the Prison Rehabilitative Industries and Diversified Enterprises Inc. (PRIDE) dental lab at the state jail.
Making Military and Police Gear
UNICOR, the trade name for Federal Prison Industries, puts prisoners to work manufacturing high-tech gear, some of which is used by military and police personnel.
Call Center Work
That annoying call center operator who contacts you in the middle of dinner? That could be an inmate — especially if the company belongs to the federal government
Rodeo Clowning and Picking Cotton
Angola prison is famous for housing some of Louisiana’s most violent criminals, but also for the once-a-year rodeo it holds for prisoners, who act as cowboys, rodeo clowns, and vendors of arts and crafts made throughout the year.
Angola is also known for its controversial agriculture project, which is based on over 28 square miles of former slave plantation land, where inmates grow and harvest corn, soybeans, and cotton.
1 more short VICE article referencing prisoners striking from working last year:
"The true scope of prison labor goes beyond personal development and public works: It’s good business. Prisoners scrub products for Wal-Mart, package coffee for Starbucks, sew clothes for Victoria’s Secret, and man call centers for AT&T.
Corporations cut deals with both private and public prisons, which gives them access to a labor force that has no choice but to work for, say, 20 cents an hour. Businesses and governments in turn save big."
If you’re really feeling frisky, approximately 30% of firefighters in CA are inmates. Here is an old WSJ article, but one of the vice articles posted above referenced it
I would agree completely (I’m not personally in favor of completely taking away judicial discretion, just a lot of it). But if the goal is to make the legal system “equal” that’s the only way to do it. Only by removing human bias will you come anywhere near something deemed “fair.”
The problem is you can’t have it both ways. All the people that scream for “enforce the law” don’t fully understand what that would actually look like. If you want to make one aspect of the law binary, you have to make every aspect binary.
They have a points system in Florida and that still didn’t work:
"Florida lawmakers have struggled for 30 years to create a more equitable system.
Points are now used to calculate sentences based on the severity of the crime, the defendant’s prior record and a host of other factors. The idea is to punish criminals in Pensacola the same as those in Key West — no matter their race, gender or wealth."
“Florida’s sentencing system is broken. When defendants score the same points in the formula used to set criminal punishments — indicating they should receive equal sentences — blacks spend far longer behind bars. There is no consistency between judges in Tallahassee and those in Sarasota.”
I don’t like removing discretion, discretion is useful in any field…but I also don’t know how to fix it.
And herein lies the problem. Inserting a human being into anything and giving discretion immediately creates bias.
Personally I think the way they’re allowed to use discretion should be changed completely. At the moment, judges mainly get to use their discretion on minor/civil crime sentencing (ie non jury of our peers types of crimes) and on overarching time period sentencing in general. I think that’s bogus af in the sense that’s abusing it is basically foolproof.
His dietary approach advocates peanut butter and coffee all morning! Then carbs in training and meals afterward. It’s like he knows me lol.
@EyeDentist He’s a seriously good dude with different opinions about the solution to the human condition. Do you know how hard it is to find a lefty to stay and fight and make reasoned arguments? The lack of hyper partisan robots (left or right) on here amazes me honestly. Try having this discussion on FB:
“RACIST!”
“PINKO!”
There is a war in Central and South America. The cartels own entire states. They have armies with tanks… think about that shit. Can you imagine if capone rolled around Chicago in a tank? The human cost of Cartel power is very real.
The problem is demand. People want to get high. I have no solution. I don’t think anyone in the world has a good solution.
You’ve got the hippy solution of sending people to rehab 50 times. That sucks.
On the other hand you have Duerte murdering addicts, dealers, pretty much everyone even near the drugs. If you kill all the addicts, then no demand. That sucks. Although China makes it work.
What do you think @tyler23 ? I want to say “who is the government to tell me what to put in my body”? But every time someone buys a dime bag they are funding Cartels. No good solution.
I disagree, Raj. Mexican immigration isn’t a zero sum game. If I were the President, I’d immediately roll out plans for an amnesty program for long-time undocumented residents. I don’t know what the time frame would be. Maybe 5 years? Reagan legalized something like 2.7 million undocumented residents. Tell people that was when America was really GREAT! We’ve had several other amnesty waves, extensions over the years, including at least one by Clinton. Talk it up as a bipartisan thing. I’d make paths to LEGAL workers a priority. Do what Texas does and be more generous with temporary work visas, and make the overall message positive toward Mexico.
I don’t know, Nick. I want to see people be able to move freely across state boundaries.
Thanks, and you might be right, @Aragorn . Not an economics policy wonk by any stretch, unfortunately!
I believe AZ was successful in cracking down on illegals, but failed to adjust and ratchet up more work visas to compensate. They ended up with a 2.5 percent drop in GDP over the years covered in that WSJ Pew graph I put up, and they had worker shortages across sectors like construction, landscaping, and agriculture. Employers were complaining that it was difficult to find enough workers. I’m quoting a WSJ article that’s paywalled here. "…according to the Moody’s analysis, low-skilled U.S. natives and legal Hispanic immigrants since 2008 picked up less than 10% of the jobs once held by undocumented immigrants. There was a recession on, but it looks like it hit AZ harder. “One bright spot: the median income of low-skilled whites who did manage to get jobs rose about 6% during that period, the economists estimate.”
Anyway, The more I try to understand the economics of it, the more I realize that I just don’t know enough. It looks like AZ saved money on education, medical care, and incarceration BUT they should have rolled out a more generous work visa program at the same time they did it. On a positive note, it’s better to have control over the flow of people so you can plan to let in those you need.
For sure. Imagine if Trump had intervened in the recent story about the woman with kids who has been here for 20 years. I don’t know the particulars of her case, but there is a place for mercy. It would have taken ALL the wind out of the left’s sails to have Trump tweet, “Let’s find a path for citizenship for good people like this. We’re concerned with serious criminals, not soccer moms with citizen children who have been here for 20 years. Let’s issue her a work visa for now, as we work on that. Please be patient while we work to secure our border and make our immigration system more fair.”
I’m no political strategist, but Mexican immigrants tend to be more moderate or conservative on many topics. CA made a big mistake when Pete Wilson declared war on them. It’s not the whole picture in blue CA, but it didn’t help. I’d rather live in Texas than CA, and Trump’s tactics are only going to make more Hispanics think that they belong in the Dem party, even when it really may not fit their values.
Legalize and sell…excise tax…if people want to get fucked up they will no? Why buy from a sketchy cartel that may not be good quality when you can buy it from food lion?
My only problem with the current system of using inmate labor is there’s really no benefit to the inmate. They may gain some job skill, but they don’t get out sooner or have their record expunged. I would make those changes ASAP.
Also anywhere profits are involved with government you need an ethics panel or a boars to oversee it. That way we don’t find out company X did shady things to talk the $/hr price down after the fact. Let companies put out open bids for the inmate labor. Get competition in there.
