Faith in what? It isn’t God.
What? My faith is in an all powerful omnipotent and omniscient God who determines morality. Something more deep and expansive than the universe. He has the moral authority to wipe out all of humanity. And that would be morally good. How many times do I have to repeat? I am not buddy Jesus guy. I have said as much time and time again. We are in comparison to him like the bacteria living on a goat’s rear is to us.
You can be morally outraged at God…Well, no because morality doesn’t exist in a cold dead faithless universe anyways. And, in a universe where he exists HE is the author of how WE ought to behave. Not the other way around.
Faith in the real existence of evil that empiricism simply isn’t equipped to measure. Like killing your brother for the inheritance is evil despite if you personally disagree because to you he was an undeserving idiot.
Now, if you want to rely on faith in some other moral code to condemn my God as objectively immoral, please do. We than agree on at least the necessity of faith.
I guess I don’t need a god to tell me that killing my brother is immoral.
The test of, would I want this done to me? if not, I should probably not do it to someone else, seems to work pretty well. I don’t have to have it be objective.
I don’t think the Bible does as good of a job of laying out morality as my simple test.
In fact I think I could write a better book than the Bible. I would just copy it word for word, except I would leave out the parts about slavery, and genocide.
That says nothing about the morality of an act. Lots of people do things to others they don’t want done to them. It’s just an action. If clever enough, it could be very rewarding.
Jackal doesn’t want to be ate by the big cat. Turns around and eats a bird that itself was trying to avoid being ate while searching for worms to eat. Just one action after another.
And remember…human life has no inherent value.
It doesn’t do any job of it. No religion has or ever will. God lays out morality if she exists. But given god has never spoke directly to anyone in history, literal morality is human morality with the claim that God agrees.
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How do you know what he has determined as moral?
How many men became kings because of that?
Who measures it since different people at different times in different places have had different ideas about what is evil?
I ain’t here to convert you. You all have computers/phones in the info age. Surely you’ve heard the pitch and willingly rejected it. No need.
My argument is simply that it takes faith to say something is, in of itself, evil. That’s that. If human life has no inherent value, by the way, that’s a given. Why the argument?
Bolsters my argument.
Yes, but your method does too. You are correct in that to obtain the perception of objective morality, faith is required.
We don’t need objective morality to function as a society, and even if it did exist from a god, we would not agree it is objective.
Even today the vast majority of humanity operates with faith. Almost as if it is a defining feature found in our species. You are at least hundreds, if not thousands, of years too soon to speak with confidence about a humanity somehow missing faith. We aren’t green blooded Vulcans.
The problem with faith is that it is not a reliable method to discover what is true or false.
Neither is science when it comes to good and evil. It’s just useful to split the atom. After that, silence.
It’s also not reliable to discern morality. If it was, zero religions would have changed their stances on a single thing since their creation (slavery, genocide, etc).
All things once proclaimed completely moral by religion, some even still today.
It has been a reliable method for the flourishing of our species. See the nearly ubiquitous presence of it in man? Pretty suggestive. Your Vulcan like creature needs to get off the ground running for a bit before speaking so confidently, I would think.
Hmm, I mostly attribute it to our willingness to have sex with each other. Last time I checked that is how species “flourish”.
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