Good counter.
I bet many Christians operate on a number of values that run contrary to their faith.
That’s cool. Changes what I said by about…oh, nothing.
It says that we can come up with a moral code that is not based on religious faith. Which is what we essentially have now.
Oh really? You think society isn’t operating off the idea that they have certain inherent rights as individuals and others have certain inherent moral obligations to them? Lol. You can’t honestly believe that.
That is pure supernaturalistic faith.
Do you agree most people have empathy?
We know through observation that disliking people who are different from us is natural. We are heard animals, and stick to our own heard, and are cautious around outsiders.
However, modern societies have seen the error in this type of thinking and have tried to educate people to no longer think that way. It is hard, because we have thought a certain way for a long time. The modern societies that are trying to eradicate xenophobia and racism are by and large doing so without a faith claim.
In general, the claim that morals come from faith in a higher power are on shaky ground, IMO. I think that is your claim?
There are lots of ignorant and uneducated people who lack self-awareness. Most people don’t question what they believe let alone why they believe.
Religious faith encourages the herd mentality and the idea of the Other.
Heh, they can’t even agree with each other
…
Agreeing with me now, even in a backhanded way…
They fear making that…leap of faith.
Maybe. If you agree that looking to society for the truth is silly.
No, I mean you two. He says that is our nature.
Do you?
Just to provide some evidence on my position that faith in a religion is not necessarily correlated with being moral. I am making the assumption that law abiding is related somewhat to being moral. I also picked the most conservative source that I found. The article even goes into why they think it is (atheists tend to be wealthier, more educated, and other reasons why they would be less likely to be incarcerated).
Atheists are about 1/10 as likely to be incarcerated as the general population. That is what this article says after correcting for some errors in the original study which said atheists are about 1/100 as likely as general population to be incarcerated.
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Then it’s bunk. It was the law to turn in runaway slaves.
So the law is always moral. Or, morality is independent of the law.
This was from data from the recent history. No slavery was legal in the US at the time.
Law is not always moral, but it can be moral. Not mutually exclusive, but not mutually inclusive either.
The point is that most things people go to jail for (besides some of the bullshit pot laws and such) are immoral things.
Would you agree that the average prisoner in the US is probably less moral than the non-prisoner?
So, morality exists independently outside of the laws of man?
Individually yes. I don’t think everyone comes to the exact same conclusion, although over time it seems many societies have common laws.