TRT: Protocol for Injections

Pharma TRT
401

I just found this site and this thread.

I was diagnosed with a Total T of 484 and Free T of almost zero. I’m 73. I live in Belgium and the endocrinologist(?) refused to prescribe anything because of my age and I then fall into a “grey area” and I go to the gym 4 times a week and push weights and that makes me ineligible for TRT

I decided to treat myself. so in October 2014, I started injecting 100 mg T cyp, (50 mg twice per week). It didn’t do much. I went up to 200 mg per week and started to feel better. I split the injections into 3 times per week and with each injection I took 0.25 mg Arimidex.

Things were better, my libido was back and I was getting erections again, but not very strong. I started on Somatropin (rHGH) 1 IU per day on 2 Dec 2014. Six weeks later I was as horny as I was when I was young. I was having sex 2 or even 3 times per day (I’d been missing it for almost 5 years thans to incompetent doctors!).

Libido is great, all my max weights at the gym have shot up, for example I was benching 65 kgs in December to 100 kgs on Monday.

I notices last week that my testicles were getting smaller, so I looked on the internet and found this thread. I got 5,000 IU HCG and I did 250 IU this morning.

I can’t get new bloodwork done until first week of Feb. Once I get them I can post. I have my last blood results if it helps.

My question is :

How can I tell if I am taking too much Adex or too little? What symptoms should I be looking for? How long will it be taking HCG, nefore I see the difference in semen and testicle size?

402

This sticky is not for individual cases. Please create your own thread.

403

Ugh HCG is such a messy messy drug.

I wish it weren’t because I believe ksman protocol is the best.

However, I get some nasty e2 and DHT sides from HCG.

I’m sure I’m not alone.

404

DHT sides are not something that has a track record. Perhaps in your case that would also happen with normal LH/FSH levels.

As for E2, you can try 125iu SC EOD and see what happens.

“messy” does not make any sense.

405

Ksman!

I need the HCG but Adex .25 EOD is way to much.

This is the most frustrating thing I’ve ever been through in my life.

Can’t get labs every three days.

Please help. Please.

I don’t have a new thread.

406

I’m experiencing high e2 sides from the HCG (which the Anastrozole can’t combat)

And low e2 sides from 1mg of Adex on 100mg of test

AT THE SAME TIME!!!

407

Create your own thread, post protocol, labs with doses.

408

Still tweaking…

Want to stick with something for a month before labs…

HCG is doing wonders. I think more for adrenals and brain function and mood.

Been doing 50 or 60mg 2x/wk SC

HCG 250iu and Adex .25 eod

Great erections poor sensitivity… Makes me think low e2…

Yet some water weight, puffiness, chest fat from HCG…

I am without a doubt secondary.

T + HCG + AI definitely way to go and very grateful for this post keep coming back to it after thousands of hours of research… Have read it thoroughly multiple times.

HOWEVER, I do believe everybody is different and their T + HCG + AI protocol MUST be individualized. This is the tricky part.

In my quest for perfection… Feeling pretty good.

50mg 250iu .25adex every three days is another consideration… Although I can’t take HCG alone feel e2 almost immediately… So maybe all at once (2x/wk)

Dropping HCG a possibility… But then should Adex be adjusted…

Have been sweating a lot as well at gym at night even during sex.

Just thinking out loud.

409

This is a sticky. Your individual details should be in your own thread, not here.

"Yet some water weight, puffiness, chest fat from HCG… "
That does not follow. Yes if your testes generate a lot of T–>E2 inside your testes. But what you describe would seem to be E2, not direct hCG effects.

In your own thread, copy the above and post your lab work with ranges.

410

HCG IS NOT WORTH THE SIDES!!!

KsMan… Do you think you feel tired often due to the HCG?

It’s like an estrogen shot!

Yes estrogen has its advantageous as far as libido and brain function are concerned… But at the end of the day it’s estrogen!

Anastrozole cannot account for estrogen from HCG.

Everyday after t and HCG together I feel like GARBAGE.

411

You are probably not feeling hCG, but your testes over-producing E2.

Please take this to your own thread.

412

Yes. And Anastrozole doesn’t block e2 from testis.

So quite a dilemma?

The thread is not going to help. I’ve read enough and asked enough and researched enough.

There is nothing else I can learn or hear.

I think your protocol is close…

Not for me though.

The slightest adjustment makes a world of difference.

Labs don’t even matter because it changes so much day to day.

For example…

Two hours ago I woke up feeling incredible. Such strong wood. Great sex.

Just two hours later feeling estrogen kicking in.

Literally changes hour to hour.

413

If you use a protocol that provides for steady levels and get and post labs, we may be able to help. You may have other things going on other than sex hormones.

STOP POSTING YOU CASE HERE.

414

This is WAY too much Anastrozole for such a low T dose. Will ruin your lipid profile and cardiovascular health.

This WAY too much HCG for trt. Will give u tits and thigh fat and a moon face.

The forums make up a very small minority of all men on trt. Those with successful protocols don’t need these forums.

And YES, the majority of men on trt are on just T.

No HCG. No AI. Certainly not to these levels.

I have tried this protocol multiple times. Has done more damage than good.

415

Not to mention joint pain.

And no I am not an “arimidex over responder” hahaha…

416

JQ,

This forum is not about discussing individual cases because it is a sticky.

When you do TRT, its really a sample of one and you find what works best for you. Many do feel better when near E2=22pg/ml and most do well using anastrozole to get there. And many do experience 24x7 testicular aching without hCG. There is also the body image, ones own as well as ones sexual partner with small testes and a tight scrotum. Also need to point out than many find that hCG greatly improves mood. We don’t know why. Seems to be some direct effect on the CNS, perhaps implying that some have a LH mood dependency [disclosed by TRT induced HPTA shutdown] that is addressed by hCG.

If you find that your best outcome is without anastrozole and hCG, that is perfect for you. You should not be attacking that works well for most just because these things were not of benefit in your case. What is recommended is starting point.

The method of adjusting anastrozole dose based on lab work also allows for one getting to a zero anastrozole dose outcome. We do acknowledge that some have have T–>E2 inside there testes with hCG and suggest that one explore lower hCG dosing in those cases. So again, one is directed to lower and individualized dosing and a few feel that they need a zero dose. You cannot hold what is recommended here hostage to the fact there there are some who have oddly different biology.

If you read the stories of guys who come here who have suffered from ignorant and indifferent TRT administration by their doctors, and note their progress here, you will see the value is what is happening here.

BTW, how did you become an expert on: “Those with successful protocols don’t need these forums.”
How do you know about men who are not on forums when by definition you then know nothing about them?

417

I’m no expert.

Just feel lost and hopeless trying to balance three different drugs.

My mood libido strength changes day to day. High estrogen one day (HCG) low estrogen sides that same day (Adex).

Seems to me that it would be better to START OFF with just T like is suggested by many. And make adjustments from there.

However, I believed in this protocol so now I’m so far in if I back off Anastrozole I get major estrogenic rebound.

It’s been over a year can’t dial it in wake up every morning with confusion. What should I take? What should I not take?

Labs vary day to day so they don’t tell a story either.

I don’t mean to criticize just extremely frustrated.

Seems easier to start off with one drug and adjust from there then start with three drugs and pray on a balancing act.

418

Personally,

The only reason I take HCG is for Pregnenolone. I don’t care about ball size and my balls DONT ache at all.

However, PREGNENOLONE came back very low on labs.

So did cholesterol however. And lipids were destroyed.

I know Pregnenolone is made from cholestorol also so I’m wondering if I got off Adex and HCG if Pregnenolone would come back.

Hahaha this sucks man.

Without trt I’m in 200’s so I need it.

Should have done just a low dose T.

Now I don’t know what to do.

So many different opinions.

419

This should not be in this sticky. Take to YOUR existing thread.

420

[quote]KSman wrote:
Hi Matt, long time no see

I used the 1/2" needles for years for IM into the vastus lateralis.

With EOD injections, the volumes are small and that is long enough for that unless one carries fat on there legs. If some leaks back out of the muscle, then that portion becomes an SC injection. The body absorbs it either way. Many are now injecting T SC and doing well. That follows a Canadian clinical study where they found that SC injections produced less T peaks and at the end of one week injection cycles the T levels were higher than with IM injections.

Note that T pellets are SC absorption, not IM.

So nothing can go wrong with the 1/2" needles. With EOD, your levels will be very steady. If you do SC injections you will not be creating any muscle damage. The only issue with SC is small bleeds that create bruises some times. You can prevent that from happening by pressing on the injection site with a finger for 15 seconds after you pull out the needle. IM can bruise as well, but not as often as SC and you can eliminate IM bleeds with compression as well.

I found that SC with T or hCG created lumps and could hurt when injecting into belly fat. Others report no such problems injecting there. When I inject SC onto the top of my legs, I don’t have any problems.

You really need to try this. Later on, if you want to go back to 1.5" needles, you can do that.

[/quote]

KSMan, when you say you “inject SC onto the top of my legs” where specifically on your legs are you injecting? And are you taking a pinch of skin to ensure it is entering only subcutaneous tissue or are you not concerned whether the needle happens to enter muscle tissue? And are you injecting the needle at a 90-degree angle or what?

I viewed a Youtube video of a guy SC injecting T into his stomach and he made a point of not taking a pinch of skin because of the increased pressure it would present to the needle. Holding it like a dart, he used just one hand to stick the needle. I don’t know what to make of the non-pinch approach, but as a guy looking to get his first lesson in self-injecting next week I don’t know much.

Also, as an aside, on another self injecting Youtube video I saw a guy tout the use of ‘Tiger Balm’ applied to the injection site 10 minutes or so before the injection. I guess it serves as an analgesic and numbs the skin. The guy said he feels nothing, and I note where others who don’t use analgesics also report feeling nothing.

Thanks so much for your time!

Rick