I thought that I’m the only one and I’m glad that I’m not.
I think I’ve read somewhere that low SHBG is high risk for cardiovascular disease. That must be true if you are truly obese and lipids, etc must be trashed right?
I did heart or whatever check with a doc and everything was perfect
I was so pissed off when they cancelled Stargate Universe… OMG! Julia Benson in tight t-shirts tho… 
LMAO
Both of these sentences say “when you take an AI…”
I assume the second one was supposed to say when you “don’t” take an AI you end up with less T
Ooops! I’ll go fix that now!
I think one of the reasons I feel so good so quickly when I inject T is it improves my insulin resistance quickly. I attempted to treat the diabetes with diabetes medicine and no TRT and got a huge energy burst, but the medicine crushed my potassium levels within 24 hours and had to stop.
Treating my insulin resistance is what causes my SHBG to rise, so if I had normal testosterone naturally, I would probably not have low SHBG.
Wait. So some of you guys with low shgb are taking 200mg a week and feel great? I went from 100mg to 160mg to 140mg and now I’m on 120mg injecting eod and I still don’t feel anything. My shgb last time I checked was 17. I’m going to get labs done in a few weeks but maybe I need to try the 200mg dose?
I’m sure there are, but your not. A lot of guys first reaction is to increase the dosage, this isn’t always the answer.
If you don’t feel anything at all, then you have other undiagnosed problems.
I think that although we can learn a ton about some things based on an individual’s personal experience, unfortunately a lot of times you’ll wind up with associative prognosis rather than causative. It’s the difference in what most call science vs “bro-science” and the main reason why a lot of studies (even the ones claiming to be “scientific”) are severely flawed.
An association is made of one abnormality to another (ie obesity to low SHGB, or heart disease and high E2) because both are commonly present in the same situations, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that one CAUSES the other. Even if it turns out that one does have causative responsibility, the time and testing needed is usually not being followed through with to effectively prove which is the chicken and which is the egg in such cases, much less which came first.
It’s basically the effect of “jumping to conclusions“.
A couple of great commonly seen forum examples…
“I just did my first injection today and I really TORE it up in the gym this evening!! This testosterone is just what I needed!!”
See what I mean? Same idea as when applied to looking at bio markers in some cases.
“I feel like shit and my E2 was 3 points above range…it MUST be the E2!”
And to bring it full circle…
“I know this guy that is 50lbs overweight, and is on the verge of diabetes. When he posted his labs his SHBG was REALLY low! I’ve seen this same phenomenon in almost all obese guys that post their labs, so it must mean that low SHBG causes obesity.”
It’s not necessarily “nonsense”, nor does it not really follow a lucid and logical thought process, but it still doesn’t make it true. Without verified and repeatable proof of causation, it’s still just an assumption, and as such, unfortunately…usually wrong.
Hope this makes sense.
Oh, one example that I forgot to mention, and this one is definitely worth the time to investigate…
The MOTHER of all associative blunders…
The western diet, brought to you by the American Heart Associations’ dietary guidelines!!!
God love ‘em, none of us would probably be here talking about hormonal deficiencies, and this forum probably wouldn’t even exist without them!! Lol
If he is not feeling after enough time on the protocol it it is very logical he needs higher dosage.
If the dosage gets too high he will feel side effects
This makes sense.
I even read that sugar lowers SHBG which I really don’t understand how could this be true since then there would be more Free T available.
I mean I did ate sugar only till 24 but I still don’t see a point lowering SHBG since this could be good. Unless it’s low due to shitty insulin sensitivity for some people.
Is it even possible to get even lower like down to 5?
The sugar and SHBG connection is probably somewhere trough the liver and glycogen but nobody is yet certain. Just the most experienced TRT doctors has made some associations between SHBG and insuline sensitivity but they nearly in all cases
I would say that the only thing we can really conclude is that excessive sugar intake will cause chronic elevations in insulin. This in turn can lead to an issue with insulin resistance.
There are some associations being made with insulin issues and SHBG, but I couldn’t make any further assessments other than that.
If you are asking whether it’s possible to get SHBG to 5, then yes I’m quite sure it is. There are drugs that are being used to intentionally lower SHBG in guys with higher levels. I’m not sure why someone with an already low to low-ish SHBG would want to make it even lower though.
Even though there is much more research to be done, enough is known about the subject now to at least warn us to the fact that a very low SHBG level is not good. It may SEEM appealing that that the lower you drive SHBG, the higher you can drive Free T, but the potential consequences can definitely outweigh the perceived benefit in this case.
There is too much subjectivity in how one ‘should feel’ when it comes to TRT. I’ve run the gamut on protocols. I’m low SHBG too. I can feel great on 200mg - 500mg/week. I’ve done TRT with and without an AI… Arimidex, aromasin. tamoxifen, HCG, no HCG, preg and dhea, masteron, T cream, cyp and propionate, daily, eod, bi weekly, e5d injections. You name it. The body reaches a stasis on each protocol. I’ve come to the conclusion that for the most part almost all of those protocols were an extended cycle where I was trying to manage an unnatural supraphysiological state. You shouldn’t ‘feel’ much when you get dialed in. You should feel some semblance of normal. But it shouldn’t be some panacea of great, amped up, crushing it or whatever. I can achieve this with 120mg/week as part of a daily protocol. I maintain upper range levels. High libido. I can have sex multiple times a day if it so occurs. I’m in great physical shape. But I still struggle with life some times. I still have bouts of depression. I get tired and worn out sometimes. This will happen irrespective of T levels, SHBG, E2, etc
Just for clarification on my above posts concerning association vs causation, I want to be clear that I’m not saying that we should completely demonize association or that there is no place for it. Im just saying that we can’t use associations to draw very hard and accurate, in other words absolute conclusions.
There is much that can be gleaned from association in some cases, especially where it would be very difficult or even impossible to prove absolute causation.
For example, there is no true “causative” proof that smoking CAUSES cancer. If this were the case, then EVERY person that smoked cigarettes would have cancer. We know that’s not the case though don’t we? All we really can conclude, via association, is that smoking INCREASES THE RISK of cancer.
If you have whatever disorder, deficiency, or gene (there is no absolutely proven cause that I know of yet) that makes you prone to cancer, then smoking will more than likely seal the deal. In this case, the association can definitely be helpful in determining that it’s probably not a good idea to smoke cigarettes. Especially since we do not know the root cause of cancer, and therefore can’t rule out whether or not you will develop it from smoking.
On the flip side of this, and an example of where association fails us, is the conclusion that has been made in the past that exogenous testosterone causes prostate cancer. We now know that this is not true as well though there was plenty evidence to support the associative theory back then.
What we now know is that, if you have prostate cancer, testosterone can accelerate the condition. What we can glean from this associative mistake though, is this…
If you have prostate cancer, don’t start TRT!
I hope this helps to clarify what I’m trying to say.
@bantis, no office to you whatsoever, but you keep lowering your dose and then state you’re not feeling anything. Logically, does that make sense to you?
When a medication is not having an effect, you increase the dose until it does. You don’t lower it.
But systemlord said…
I dont get why I have low SHBG and low free T
Well, barring a lab error (which is possible), there are two things to consider.
A lab result is a single snapshot in time. While levels can wildly fluctuate throughout the day it’s possible that you “caught it just right” to give you a bad reading. You could try repeating the test and see if the results are consistent.
Free T is a function of Total T, SHBG, and Albumin. Do you have all of these levels in the same blood draw?
I have same problem. Low SHBG and low free T.
I will do blood test in 2 weeks and see if anything changed