do you supplement magnesium? Also @finnish_guy.
Currently not… But better start supplementing with it I guess
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go with the mag glycinate. Most of the others are for constipation.
What the heck are you talking about? There is no ‚ burning out‘ of an enzyme. That’s absurd.
200mg/week is a supraphysiologic dose. You have 2 options:
-drop to a physiologic dose and let your body get used to it, go back to a normal life and focus things other than T;
-experience off/on symptoms forever [you’re currently in an “on” phase], always getting lots of opinions from random people and docs, doing lots of tests and messing around with differing medications, vitamins, supplements…trying to keep side-effects in check.
This stuff is only complicated if you’re trying to give your body more than it thinks it needs. It doesn’t matter if some people can get away with more T…clearly you cannot. I’d suggest to you that your body is smarter than any doctor, expert, or friend. Listen to it or suffer (unless you’re trying to juice in the first place).
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Tell that to Mark Gordon.
Whoa! Going to try this myself.
It will likely take a little time as what you’ve injected in the morning is expelled and what you inject at night builds up, but not too long… Just be patient.
I think for me, injecting 22mg sub q every night around 11pm, I’m feeling the peak about 35-39 hours later. I initially thought I was feeling the previous nights injection… But in reality, I’m feeling my 2 days ago injection that way about 35 Hours prior.
We’re all different though. Peak times for sub q differ that IM too, as does half life…so, choose a dose and time and stick with it for at least 8 weeks and keep track of how you feel and when. Good luck
LOL some people don’t even get past the upper limits of the range with that dose and is a common starting dosage. Yes it can put some higher than the range but supraphysiologic dose, umm no.
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It does lead to supraphysiological levels in most men.
There is lots of data on pharmacokinetics and dose effects relationship available that demonstrates this. 200 mg per week leads to average levels between 1000 and 2500 ng/dL
Also on guys here on this forum
Whether this causes concern is another topic.
Fully agree that it can put a lot of people above range, especially depending on dosage frequency, not denying that. To me though, just because it is above the reference range does not make it supra. You only have one data point, maybe one other close to the edge, on your table you made from extracting members levels that I would consider supra. That is just my opinion though and know others differ.
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If one drinks too much water the water levels in the body (e.g. osmolality) do not go “too high.” If the body has too much of something that it doesn’t think it needs, it’ll work overtime to eliminate the excess. But serum hormone levels do not correlate well with CNS, in particular intra-cellular, hormone-induced activity, such that the physiologic effects can be quite variable.
The OP is having symptoms of hormonal dysfunction. He’s taking a dose far in excess what the average person needs for TRT. This is not rocket science…getting labs is a idiocracy move. I don’t keep tabs on millennial vocabulary, but supraphysiologic dosing in non-Idiocracy world vocabulary is a medical science term that refers to dosing of a hormone that either a) is higher than ordinary endogenous production (while considering for pharmacodynamics and kinetics) and/or b) produces untoward symptoms that ought to be first ascribed to the drug intervention.
The internet doctors (and their echo chamber counterparts) here do not seem to appreciate the complexity of the multitude of variables involved here.
I don’t know if my information will help the OP here, but perhaps someone else in the future who finds this post. Simply note the # of threads here with people taking ~150-200+mg/week T, having symptoms, riding the symptom roller coaster, asking for advice, being told to check a dozen labs, going on/off peripheral meds (e.g. AIs), being told to check body temperature(!) and other wacky stuff…just consider that in the real world most TRT people avoid all this by sticking to typical doses 70-100mg total per week, probably split every other day or twice a week. If your body is thirsty for T, give it moderate sips until it’s back online.
Dumping the T in is easy for McDonalds TRT docs ($$$) while it’s quite rough on a lot of real-world people, as is evidenced in this thread. And this all neglected to address if T was appropriate in the first place, or if OTHER things besides low T were, really, the underlying problem that got neglected because of starting TRT.
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@spholtz - general question for you regarding this statement.
I would say my levels from my last blood work show I’m in “supra” levels where the top of the TT range is 1100 and I’m at 1312… But, I’m not on an AI and have no side effects that I know of.
When I went to my urologist with ED, my TT was in the 250s. 2+ years of treatment and steady increases, my original symptoms have dissapated and I’m not having those original issues.
Since I’m at “supra” levels without negative side effects and have original symptom/problem relief…Would someone recommend that I decrease my dose to get below the “supra” levels? Even at the cost/risk of re-introducing symptoms?
I enjoy reading your post, good stuff… Keep it coming!
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I had similar experiences my first 6 months of TRT. I’m not sure what it was but eventually it went away on its own. Mine happened every single night for months so a lot worse that you. Like @NH_Watts said using magnesium GLYCINATE can really help. All purchased from Amazon.
Here’s the protocol I used with major success:
(taken before bed)
- Magnesium glycinate - 400-600mg (Bulk Supplements powder)
- L-Tryptophan - 500mg (Bulk Supplements powder)
- Melatonin - 2.5mg (Natrol fast dissolve)
I usually only take the L-Tryptophan if I am really having trouble sleeping but I take the mag gly & melatonin every night for a long time now. This protocol doesn’t make me drowsy the next day which is a big plus.
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I might give this a shot. Based on half lives and all that it shouldn’t matter but if it worked for you, it’s worth considering. I find I’m WAY too awake in the evening.
A lot of of good replies. So the only thing that I didnt pick up from the thread is, Do you drink alcohol daily? Do you exercise? How often and how intense?
Zero alcohol. I train 4-5 days a week and at a 80% RPE every session.
If you still inject 200 mg per week split into eod and experience sleep issues try a lower weekly dose. Dropping to a weekly dose to 140 will still get you in the upper ref range of freeT and might help your sleeping problem.
I back down to 200 every 10 days and that has seemed to do the trick. I had to do something immediately so that’s what the blood test are reflecting. I weirded out by my A1c. I can’t figure out why it is so high…