Trooper Punches Woman After Car Chase

[quote]MickD wrote:
Oh, bullshit! That asshole swerved his car and tried to kill him. You can train people to react to many different situations, but you’ll never know how they will react until confronted with a real world situation. I’ve seen people in my life that I thought were gung ho kick ass mother fuckers, who have frozen or been less that decisive in actual events.[/quote]
Wrong place, wrong time. If he stayed behind that vehicle he was beside instead of trying to lay down a spike strip too late, it wouldn’t have happened. He made the wrong decision. I’m sure somewhere in Police training they go over this, and I doubt it says “Put spike-strip down at last possible second.”

[quote]There is no way to know if a cop will go ape shit crazy when some dickhead tries to run down his friend until it really happens. These guys did and were dealt with accordingly.
[/quote]
Agreed.

When I said

[quote]You cannot label people as outlaws as you see fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw[/quote]
I wasn’t speaking directly to you MickD, but people that say that it’s ok for Police to behave like this.

[quote]MickD wrote:

[quote]You cannot label people as outlaws as you see fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw[/quote]

I’m not a police officer. I can label people any way I see fit.[/quote]

Then you don’t know what the term ‘Outlaw’ actually means, because you, along with me are in the big group of people that could be called ‘Last people to decide if someone is an Outlaw’.
The wild wild west ended a long time ago.

I’m on the laws side on this one.

Regardless of if she was on drugs/drunk OR sober, I feel the officer made a good choice.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:
Oh, bullshit! That asshole swerved his car and tried to kill him. You can train people to react to many different situations, but you’ll never know how they will react until confronted with a real world situation. I’ve seen people in my life that I thought were gung ho kick ass mother fuckers, who have frozen or been less that decisive in actual events.[/quote]
Wrong place, wrong time. If he stayed behind that vehicle he was beside instead of trying to lay down a spike strip too late, it wouldn’t have happened. He made the wrong decision. I’m sure somewhere in Police training they go over this, and I doubt it says “Put spike-strip down at last possible second.”

[quote]There is no way to know if a cop will go ape shit crazy when some dickhead tries to run down his friend until it really happens. These guys did and were dealt with accordingly.
[/quote]
Agreed.

When I said

[quote]You cannot label people as outlaws as you see fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw[/quote]
I wasn’t speaking directly to you MickD, but people that say that it’s ok for Police to behave like this.

[/quote]

Roger that. We will have to respectfully disagree about the wrong place, wrong time aspect of this. I feel differently that you about this.

But, I do agree that the police should be trained and held to a certain standard, but as a reasonable thinking adult in the real world, it doesn’t surprise me when officers react this way in these types of situations. I feel that it would be hard not to.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:

[quote]You cannot label people as outlaws as you see fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw[/quote]

I’m not a police officer. I can label people any way I see fit.[/quote]

Then you don’t know what the term ‘Outlaw’ actually means, because you, along with me are in the big group of people that could be called ‘Last people to decide if someone is an Outlaw’.
The wild wild west ended a long time ago.[/quote]

Actually, I’ve spent the last 25 years of my life deployed in Asia. The wild west is alive and well young man and in all honesty North America isn’t much better.

[quote]MickD wrote:
Roger that. We will have to respectfully disagree about the wrong place, wrong time aspect of this. I feel differently that you about this.

But, I do agree that the police should be trained and held to a certain standard, but as a reasonable thinking adult in the real world, it doesn’t surprise me when officers react this way in these types of situations. I feel that it would be hard not to.[/quote]

To me(and probably yourself), it is understandable, but it’s also not acceptable in the least.

[quote]MickD wrote:
Actually, I’ve spent the last 25 years of my life deployed in Asia. The wild west is alive and well young man and in all honesty North America isn’t much better.[/quote]

I meant the literal term Outlaw, as in no rights, shot on the spot w/o consequence.

I take it you’re in the military(being ‘deployed’)? Do you have a story to share or maybe a summary of your experience(s)?

edit: i’m an a-hole.

anyways, i’ll take this opportunity to again say she should of got jaaccckkkkt the efff up

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:
Actually, I’ve spent the last 25 years of my life deployed in Asia. The wild west is alive and well young man and in all honesty North America isn’t much better.[/quote]

I meant the literal term Outlaw, as in no rights, shot on the spot w/o consequence.

[/quote]

That’s also what I meant.

There is a reason cops have to react the way they do. You use as much force as is needed to stop a threat. Yes she is a woman, no she doesn’t get any special treatment. If those cops told her to open the door or put her hands up and she didn’t then I can’t fault them. You reach into a car with someone that has already shown the will to resist arrest and who knows what might happen to you.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/24/2031365/two-officers-killed-one-us-marshal.html

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/01/24/2031135/slain-officers-funeral-procession.html

http://www.freep.com/article/20110124/NEWS01/110124019/1318/Gunman-who-shot-4-officers-is-IDd

About a week’s worth of deaths and in just two out of 50 states. Once you start paying attention you notice how may cops are being killed, seriously hurt, or assaulted on the job. When you decide to run from the police and use a vehicle that could kill or main them you just escalated the use of force.

I can’t fault these officers based on what little I have seen.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:

No one is letting the police act as if they are above the law. The five officers in the video you posted were fired as a result of their actions. They crossed the line. The crazy guy in the car got a 20 year sentence pleading down attempted murder to aggravated assault.

I don’t agree that the video you posted is similar to the one that the OP posted.
[/quote]

I cannot believe that was plead down to Agg Assault. If aiming your speeding vehicle at someone is not attempted murder, what the fuck is? They must have made a decision that they were happy with a 20 year sentence (very severe for an Agg Assault) rather than risk not guilty of an attempted murder, a finding of guilty on Agg Assault and a less severe sentence.

As for the cops that lost their job, they deserved to. But I certainly understand why they whipped that ass and I’d have done the same. They just watched that cocksucker aim his car at another LEO.
[/quote]

I don’t know about most people, but I have yet to meet anyone that can jump in front of a moving vehicle and stop it. He shouldn’t have put himself in the road.
Coming from a (former/current?) bouncer/bodyguard, I would think you’d have a better understanding of not hitting people when they’re not coherent, let alone unconscious.
When citizens do shit like this, they can go to jail for it. With video technology nowadays Police officers should know better to keep their cool.
I’ve said this before, Police have to be held to a higher standard.[/quote]

Alright, let me say something first. Enough with the “bouncer” thing. It makes it seem like my entire life’s work was being some “doorman”. I bounced for shits and giggles, and most recently to help a friend and I promptly stopped when I decided he didn’t really want to be helped.

As a former bodyguard, I am perfectly acquainted with the force continuum. And as I said in one of my posts, I am on the fence about what I saw. You say the vehicle was pinned. That does not mean that with a bit more effort, that vehicle could not have come free and if it did, that’s a very dangerous situation. A 2500 object does not need to be hurtling down a highway to inflict serious injury or death.

When shit is going down, it happens fast. It’s easy for us to sit here and Monday morning QB this, but it’s not easy when you’re in the situation. (I can’t believe you have me here defending LE). I did allow that I am somewhat troubled by the officer striking her. He could have just as easily grabbed her hands/arms and - I said I’d have no problem with this - drag her ass right out the window.

The point is this; she has already demonstrated her will to be “non-compliant” and resist arrest by fleeing to the point where a pit maneuver (dangerous in and of itself) was required to effectuate the stop. You’re presuming her efforts to resist would end there. I say an officer has no such assurance and to assume so will one day end an officer’s life. In fact, she was non-compliant to orders until she was struck 3 times. This means her resistance did not end with the stop. It ended when she was struck. The question of course, is whether that was reasonable and legal force. The DA already said he saw nothing there to prosecute criminally. The Department may have another view, but that would be more a training issue, with possible suspension or reprimand.

As for your comments about the other officer putting himself in the road, I think you’re way way way off base. Someone driving erratically and fleeing the police is a life threatening hazard to every innocent driver on the road. At some point, a decision has to be made to let them flee (depending on crime committed and department rules of engagement) or, attempt to effectuate a stop. The officer in question was putting spike strips in the roadway (which would have effectuated the stop with the least risk to everyone involved, including innocent drivers). The asshole fleeing, quite clearly and purposefully swerved toward the officer in what can only be described as an attempt to kill him (what else would you describe aiming your speeding vehicle at someone?).

If I witnessed that, all bets, all rules of engagement, any decency on my part is out the fucking window. Since you liked to refer to me as some “bouncer”, I’ll put my feelings in that venue. You can fight anyone in the club you want. When I arrive, and I grab you, your fight better be finished. If your fight is finished, I will respectfully walk you to the door, tell you to have a nice evening, and if you didn’t really tear you ass in the establishment, tell you that you’re welcome back next week. If, however, you hit me or one of my bouncers, you’re going to take a fucking beating. If you pulled a gun or a knife, you’re going to the hospital, if you don’t get shot first.

If you tried to shoot me or my coworker and missed, you’re going to the fucking hospital. Now I ask you, what is the difference between aiming your speeding vehicle at someone and trying to shoot someone? Let me answer that for you. There is NO difference. Ass whooping WILL follow. I don’t care if the guy was ejected from the vehicle and LOST HIS ARM IN THE PROCESS. Because, I’d pick his bloody arm up, and I’d use it to beat him. Then I’d throw it down the nearest sewer.

The only mistake these officers in the Alabama video made was not angling their vehicles, and hence their cameras, away from the action. If anyone ever deserved a beating, it was that cocksucker.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:
If those five people weren’t police officers, but just normal people in a neighborhood and some idiot had just tried to run down their friend or family member, I don’t think that a jury of their peers would have convicted them for kicking his ass, nor would I agree that they would be fired from their jobs.[/quote]
Situations are entirely different. Police are trained how to react in high-stress situations.
While I wouldn’t agree with it, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were found guilty in a criminal/civil court in the US.
I hate both sides of these situations. I don’t like that people do stupid shit like this, and I don’t like cops for beating them. And I really don’t like when people talk as if they don’t have any right because of what they’re doing.
You cannot label people as outlaws as you see fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw[/quote]

Wow. I’m fucking stunned. I’m generally not a fan of LEO but you’re making me defend them. Guess what bud, welcome to the fucking real world. Where do you live? I grew up and around Philadelphia PA. Let me assure you that if you step out of line with Philadelphia PD, or Camden NJ PD, or Chester PA PD, you’re getting fucked up. And if you try to KILL any of the foregoing? IF you don’t get killed, you’re going to get fucked up and a one way trip to the hospital. This is reality. And you know what? I can understand it.

When you get arrested, it’s over. You comply. Period. If you try to kill someone, expect that they will try to kill you, officer or not.

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Yeah I agree with all you guys. Woman think they can slap cop or men on their face, attack them and get away with it just because they are women. They think it’s their right because they are women. I aint slapping a women because she said some vulgar thing so why can
she do it I say they need to get a good beating at least once in their life so they stop being a threat. An attacker is an attacker.[/quote]

I tell dem hoes all the time, “I don’t hit women, but I hit back”.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:
Oh, bullshit! That asshole swerved his car and tried to kill him. You can train people to react to many different situations, but you’ll never know how they will react until confronted with a real world situation. I’ve seen people in my life that I thought were gung ho kick ass mother fuckers, who have frozen or been less that decisive in actual events.[/quote]
Wrong place, wrong time. If he stayed behind that vehicle he was beside instead of trying to lay down a spike strip too late, it wouldn’t have happened. He made the wrong decision. I’m sure somewhere in Police training they go over this, and I doubt it says “Put spike-strip down at last possible second.”

[quote]There is no way to know if a cop will go ape shit crazy when some dickhead tries to run down his friend until it really happens. These guys did and were dealt with accordingly.
[/quote]
Agreed.

When I said

[quote]You cannot label people as outlaws as you see fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw[/quote]
I wasn’t speaking directly to you MickD, but people that say that it’s ok for Police to behave like this.

[/quote]

WRONG. You DO put spike strip down at last possible moment. To do so otherwise would allow the fleeing vehicle to avoid it. Please stop stretching reality to defend your position. Find a better example of “brutality” - there is no shortage. And I will happily jump in with two feet and bash LEO with you.

[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Brutality is an overuse of, or excessive force. They got her pulled over and cornered. She’s a woman. That cop could have just yanked her out of her seat instead of punching her, OR he could have just turned off her car. Reacting with his emotions and trying to justify it doesn’t fly. That’s the same reasoning that cop in Seattle tried for when he unjustifiably shot the old woodcarver. [/quote]
Say that again when you are actually a cop.

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:

No one is letting the police act as if they are above the law. The five officers in the video you posted were fired as a result of their actions. They crossed the line. The crazy guy in the car got a 20 year sentence pleading down attempted murder to aggravated assault.

I don’t agree that the video you posted is similar to the one that the OP posted.
[/quote]

I cannot believe that was plead down to Agg Assault. If aiming your speeding vehicle at someone is not attempted murder, what the fuck is? They must have made a decision that they were happy with a 20 year sentence (very severe for an Agg Assault) rather than risk not guilty of an attempted murder, a finding of guilty on Agg Assault and a less severe sentence.

As for the cops that lost their job, they deserved to. But I certainly understand why they whipped that ass and I’d have done the same. They just watched that cocksucker aim his car at another LEO.
[/quote]

I don’t know about most people, but I have yet to meet anyone that can jump in front of a moving vehicle and stop it. He shouldn’t have put himself in the road.
Coming from a (former/current?) bouncer/bodyguard, I would think you’d have a better understanding of not hitting people when they’re not coherent, let alone unconscious.
When citizens do shit like this, they can go to jail for it. With video technology nowadays Police officers should know better to keep their cool.
I’ve said this before, Police have to be held to a higher standard.[/quote]

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Alright, let me say something first. Enough with the “bouncer” thing. It makes it seem like my entire life’s work was being some “doorman”. I bounced for shits and giggles, and most recently to help a friend and I promptly stopped when I decided he didn’t really want to be helped[/quote]
You’ve called yourself a ‘bouncer’, so don’t get pissed off at me for using the term. I didn’t use the term with any hidden disrespectful meaning, so don’t be so sensitive when it’s a word you’ve used to describe a previous job you held. As far as I understand, bouncer and doorman are synonymous, if you choose to reply to this please confirm/deny this for me.
http://velocity.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/music_movies_girls_life/tales_from_the_club_10?id=3777381&pageNo=2

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
Like all bouncers, I have my groupies…[/quote]

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
As a former bodyguard, I am perfectly acquainted with the force continuum. And as I said in one of my posts, I am on the fence about what I saw. You say the vehicle was pinned. That does not mean that with a bit more effort, that vehicle could not have come free and if it did, that’s a very dangerous situation. A 2500 object does not need to be hurtling down a highway to inflict serious injury or death. [/quote]
One of the officers jumped over the hood, if the vehicle was going to go somewhere, I doubt he would’ve done this.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
When shit is going down, it happens fast. It’s easy for us to sit here and Monday morning QB this, but it’s not easy when you’re in the situation. (I can’t believe you have me here defending LE). I did allow that I am somewhat troubled by the officer striking her. He could have just as easily grabbed her hands/arms and - I said I’d have no problem with this - drag her ass right out the window.[/quote]
Agreed, soft physical control would have been more appropriate.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
The point is this; she has already demonstrated her will to be “non-compliant” and resist arrest by fleeing to the point where a pit maneuver (dangerous in and of itself) was required to effectuate the stop. You’re presuming her efforts to resist would end there. I say an officer has no such assurance and to assume so will one day end an officer’s life. In fact, she was non-compliant to orders until she was struck 3 times. This means her resistance did not end with the stop. It ended when she was struck. The question of course, is whether that was reasonable and legal force. The DA already said he saw nothing there to prosecute criminally. The Department may have another view, but that would be more a training issue, with possible suspension or reprimand.[/quote]
You’re slightly incorrect in your point about compliance. The officer that struck her charged in and started hitting her, he made no attempt at communication. Watch it again if you think I’m making this up. The wheels didn’t spin at all when her car came to a stop, if she was going to continue fleeing she could have and the wheels spinning and car subsequently moving would be evidence of this. Also, what was the reason she was being pulled over? This is very important. The article didn’t say anything about this.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
As for your comments about the other officer putting himself in the road, I think you’re way way way off base. Someone driving erratically and fleeing the police is a life threatening hazard to every innocent driver on the road. At some point, a decision has to be made to let them flee (depending on crime committed and department rules of engagement) or, attempt to effectuate a stop. The officer in question was putting spike strips in the roadway (which would have effectuated the stop with the least risk to everyone involved, including innocent drivers). The asshole fleeing, quite clearly and purposefully swerved toward the officer in what can only be described as an attempt to kill him (what else would you describe aiming your speeding vehicle at someone?).[/quote]
He chose a bad place to do it. While we won’t ever know this, and I don’t entirely agree with what I’m about to say, ‘he was trying to avoid the spike strips and wasn’t intentionally swerving into a police officer’. I’m saying it b/c it’s a possibility, not b/c I agree with it. The driver could’ve have swerved much more to actually run the officer over entirely.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
If I witnessed that,…I’d throw it down the nearest sewer.[/quote]
Ok.

So attempted murder is only ok when the Police do it?
I sure hope you realize the inch that you’re giving here.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:

[quote]MattyG35 wrote:

[quote]MickD wrote:
If those five people weren’t police officers, but just normal people in a neighborhood and some idiot had just tried to run down their friend or family member, I don’t think that a jury of their peers would have convicted them for kicking his ass, nor would I agree that they would be fired from their jobs.[/quote]
Situations are entirely different. Police are trained how to react in high-stress situations.
While I wouldn’t agree with it, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were found guilty in a criminal/civil court in the US.
I hate both sides of these situations. I don’t like that people do stupid shit like this, and I don’t like cops for beating them. And I really don’t like when people talk as if they don’t have any right because of what they’re doing.
You cannot label people as outlaws as you see fit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Outlaw[/quote]

Wow. I’m fucking stunned. I’m generally not a fan of LEO but you’re making me defend them. Guess what bud, welcome to the fucking real world. Where do you live? I grew up and around Philadelphia PA. Let me assure you that if you step out of line with Philadelphia PD, or Camden NJ PD, or Chester PA PD, you’re getting fucked up. And if you try to KILL any of the foregoing? IF you don’t get killed, you’re going to get fucked up and a one way trip to the hospital. This is reality. And you know what? I can understand it.

When you get arrested, it’s over. You comply. Period. If you try to kill someone, expect that they will try to kill you, officer or not. [/quote]

I’ve been on the wrong side of an undeserved police beating before. Perfectly cooperative, and you know what it got me? 6 elbows to the back of my neck while I’m sitting down right after being denied to speak with a lawyer and not read my Miranda rights.
I’ve had cops ask us(my white friends and I) to go away so they can harass my black friend.
I’ve experienced cops lie on the stand and smile about it.
I’ll hold them accountable everytime because I know how much they do get away with.
That’s why you can’t just shrug this shit off, and say "Oh, he deserved that beating’, because for every one that does deserve there’s another one that didn’t.
I get it too man, don’t be a moron and do stupid shit, but when someone is incapacitated or incoherent and you’re the sober one, you’re responsible for what you do, just like they’re responsible for what they did to get where they are.
Violence begets violence.
Being the one that’s sober with the upper hand puts you in the position to make the right decisions in all the wrong situations.

[quote]
So attempted murder is only ok when the Police do it?
I sure hope you realize the inch that you’re giving here. [/quote]

That’s not what he meant and you know it. When I read his post I clearly understood that he was basically saying, if you try to kill someone (including LEO) don’t be surprised if they try and kill you too. It’s life kid. Buy a fucking helmet!

[quote]MickD wrote:

I know what he meant. But what he meant isn’t the reality of it. If those cops parked their vehicles with the cameras away from the scene, that would be conspiracy to commit murder after the beating that would be given to the unconscious man.
If that’s what they want to do, then they deserve to lose their jobs, and be charged for what they did. They are not above the law. This is exactly why your country is no longer a republic, when the rule of law only applies in certain instances to certain people you get the exact fucked up justice system that you presently have.

If I hadn’t seen Matty posting in other threads, I’d assume he was a troll. …this still is probably him just trolling but who knows?