Thinking about starting my first cycle. I have been lifting for the past 5 yrs. I have done some research and want to do a cyp,tren stack. Of course i will have the nolva and clomid for cycle and post cycle therapy. The question is has anyone had any problems with trenbolone and breathing. Tren seems nice when compared to winny but, i dont want any breathing problems…
No breathing problems, only thing in some cases is tren cough, and trouble sleeping, and slight raise in temp.
I don’t think tren damages your lungs in any way. However, it does sap endurance. I took tren while I had running in my program. With tren I was sucking air after a couple minutes. Even walking to class for 10-15 minutes would leave me breathing a bit heavier. After I stopped taking the tren I was fine though.
In other thread I basically said anyone can take anything they want for their first cycle. My one exception to this rule would be tren. Tren is not what I’d call a starter product. Add that to using Cyp for the first time and you’re introducing a few potential unknowns into the equation
Well, in contrast, back when I did consultations with athletes there were hundreds of guys that I put on a first-cycle with tren as the base. Not one outcome ever suggested this was poor advice on my part.
(Well, a couple “I think I got the flu” but some will get that without taking anything, and sometimes the cough complaints. So not absolutely nothing but basically so.)
Really the only reason I have to discuss cycles that DON’T include it is simply because some people don’t have it and you can’t dictate to people. They have other things that they want to know how to best use. But in any cases where the cycle is intended to be strong enough to temporarily shut down LH, there really isn’t any beating having some trenbolone in the mix. Not absolutely necessary, but an excellent thing to do. No different for first cycles: quite suitable for those.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, in contrast, back when I did consultations with athletes there were hundreds of guys that I put on a first-cycle with tren as the base. Not one outcome ever suggested this was poor advice on my part.[/quote]
Bill, could you expand on the specifics of one of these first-time cycles? Additional compounds included? Recommended length of cycle?
A lot of variation because most guys “buy first” and plan later. Almost never was it the other way around, though a few cases so.
Trenbolone acetate really is the best base for a short cycle, 50-100 mg/day, because of being fast acting and no aromatization, potentiation-in-the-skin, or liver issues. Testosterone propionate is OK for those not having problems with those issues, many cycles have been based on that at typically about 150 mg/day with frontload of 3x/dose.
Most other injectables are too long-acting.
Test cyp, enanthate, and Sustanon have been used but in this case duration has to be limited to the first week, relying on other things for the second week (plus relying on the carry over.)
Primobolan has, rarely, been used this way at a gram per week and used up through day 10 or so. European users only on that, because of price in the US being way too high.
An interesting question is whether Masteron could be a good base injectable. It was harder to come by previously and I don’t know any cases with it, so that’s an open question.
What I mean by referring to a “base” is having something that covers the androgen-receptor-mediated activity, or Class I. The only orals that I’m sure do this are oxandrolone, but it’s liver toxic, methyl-T, but that’s pretty harsh for a base, and oral Primo, but it’s not cost effective. Interesting question as to whether Oral Turinabol might.
Then to the base Dianabol was the most common addition, e.g. around 50 mg/day. Oxymetholone I have lately come to think is better, at around 200 mg/day. Winstrol gives a nice added effect but is expensive.
The recommended length for the short cycles is 2 weeks, which the orals can go straight throughout and the injectables are ended a little earlier so as to allow time to clear reasonably by the first day of week 3. The reason for this is a pattern the HPTA has of first having a phase, which lasts 2 weeks, of being actually sensitized to LHRH by exposure to androgen, and then after that being desensitized. So ending at the 2 week point allows modest initial LHRH production to yield good LH, whereas later on in the initial phases LH is low even when LHRH has been restored. Not a giant issue though when using Clomid or Nolvadex and having limited the cycle to say 8-10 weeks.
If choosing to do the longer cycle, then the issue of a short-acting injectable isn’t important through most of the cycle, though switching to short-acting at the end will give a more precise transition to recovery.
Essentially, there’s an androgen level that’s a waste of your time, resources, and is counterproductive: depending on the individual blood levels corresponding to around 200 mg/week. At this point, most (there are exceptions) won’t get good gains, yet it’s lousy for LH production too. So better to be either well above that and gaining fast while LH is suppressed anyway, or if not having these levels giving fast gains, dropping down to levels allowing good LH recovery rather than being in this middle ground that just drags down your HPTA but does little for you in terms of performance enhancement. The short-actings give a fast transition this way, the longer-actings don’t.
[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
An interesting question is whether Masteron could be a good base injectable. It was harder to come by previously and I don’t know any cases with it, so that’s an open question.
[/quote]
Bill my source has both Tren Ace 100mg/ml and a Mas/Tren combo each at 100mg’s/ml.
What are your thoughts on the Combo in your short cycles in replacement for the straight Tren?
Trenbolone is more effective per milligram and I don’t think Masteron has any activity that trenbolone doesn’t. That is to say, isn’t synergistic with it: combining it is no more productive than say taking 1 tablet of Alleve and 1 tablet of ibuprofen. Might as well take 2 tablets of Alleve.
In contrast many other androgens such as Dianabol, oxymetholone, and Winstrol stack synergistically with trenbolone, so it’s not that no combinations are good, it’s that in the particular case of trenbolone and dromostanolone, I would just take the full amount (whatever I defined that as) of trenbolone rather than dividing it up with the Masteron.
I’ve done 4-5 Tren cycles in as many years, and have never experienced a breathing problem. This is news to me. In fact, in addition to lifting, I am a runner and I was running 5 miles at a clip, twice a week during my last cycle. So, I’ve never experienced a problem.
May I ask why you have come to think oxymetholone serves as a better base than dianabol?
may I ask why you think someone will respond to the question you asked in a thread that’s been over for nearly 10 years?