Treating Depression

Off Topic
81

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]
Tramadol is not an opiate its a central opioid agonist and is not even close to Effexor which is a SNRI.
Are you sure it was Tramadol?

82

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]
Tramadol is not an opiate its a central opioid agonist and is not even close to Effexor which is a SNRI.
Are you sure it was Tramadol? [/quote]

Yes, I’m sure it’s Tramadol. As far as it being an opioid, I guess it’s not technically an opioid… just that it has opioid effects, inclusive of the addictive properties.

And:
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Abstract/2008/02000/Similar_Effects_of_Tramadol_and_Venlafaxine_in.25.aspx

“The analgesic tramadol has many characteristics in common with the antidepressant venlafaxine. The drugs are structurally similar, share both serotonergic and noradrenergic properties, and undergo a similar metabolic fate.”

83

[quote]eremesu wrote:
that sounds like weird advice to tell a person with depression that they have low testosterone. that would be like if i went on corn-nation.com and posted that i had depression they would say that it sounded like i needed to eat more corn.
also, if goodfellow is young,has huge biceps and has low T then what does that mean for me? i must be lucky to be alive because i am sure i dont have as much testosterone as he.
[/quote]

Testosterone is far from the only component needed for muscular hypertrophy, and feel free to cross reference anything I have said. I didn’t say he has low T, I said it’s a possibility. You can have high T and be clinically depressed. There are many possible reasons for depression. The best thing to do is root cause analysis. Hormonal imbalance can most definitely be a reason. The effect of the sex hormones on the brain, particularly the health and regeneration of synapses is not something to over look. It’s to often overlooked actually.

Further, aren’t you the one who wanted to take Paxil to last longer in the sack? Drink whiskey, it’s faster and less caustic than Paxil.

84

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]
Tramadol is not an opiate its a central opioid agonist and is not even close to Effexor which is a SNRI.
Are you sure it was Tramadol? [/quote]

Yes, I’m sure it’s Tramadol. As far as it being an opioid, I guess it’s not technically an opioid… just that it has opioid effects, inclusive of the addictive properties.

And:
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Abstract/2008/02000/Similar_Effects_of_Tramadol_and_Venlafaxine_in.25.aspx

“The analgesic tramadol has many characteristics in common with the antidepressant venlafaxine. The drugs are structurally similar, share both serotonergic and noradrenergic properties, and undergo a similar metabolic fate.”[/quote]

It sucks as a pain killer.

85

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]
Tramadol is not an opiate its a central opioid agonist and is not even close to Effexor which is a SNRI.
Are you sure it was Tramadol? [/quote]

Yes, I’m sure it’s Tramadol. As far as it being an opioid, I guess it’s not technically an opioid… just that it has opioid effects, inclusive of the addictive properties.

And:
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Abstract/2008/02000/Similar_Effects_of_Tramadol_and_Venlafaxine_in.25.aspx

“The analgesic tramadol has many characteristics in common with the antidepressant venlafaxine. The drugs are structurally similar, share both serotonergic and noradrenergic properties, and undergo a similar metabolic fate.”[/quote]

It sucks as a pain killer.[/quote]

Pretty much unrelated, but some tricyclics and SSRI’s are being used to treat certain types of pain.

86

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]
Tramadol is not an opiate its a central opioid agonist and is not even close to Effexor which is a SNRI.
Are you sure it was Tramadol? [/quote]

Yes, I’m sure it’s Tramadol. As far as it being an opioid, I guess it’s not technically an opioid… just that it has opioid effects, inclusive of the addictive properties.

And:
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Abstract/2008/02000/Similar_Effects_of_Tramadol_and_Venlafaxine_in.25.aspx

“The analgesic tramadol has many characteristics in common with the antidepressant venlafaxine. The drugs are structurally similar, share both serotonergic and noradrenergic properties, and undergo a similar metabolic fate.”[/quote]

It sucks as a pain killer.[/quote]

Pretty much unrelated, but some tricyclics and SSRI’s are being used to treat certain types of pain. [/quote]

It does suck as a pain killer, but it’s great for my mood.

87

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]

Tramadol is quite popular on other board I frequent.

Everyday use - forget it. Especially if you’re after an anti-depressant effect. Your tolerance will build fairly quick and it’s that point you’ll either need to hop off the ride…or start messing with higher doses, which is never a smart thing with opiod acting drugs.

Couple of times a week, you can get away with that, but there are probably better long-term strategies.

Have you tried any of the older tricyclics or the MAOI’s?. These tend to be far better drugs really than the SSRI’s but docs are relucutant because their overodse margin is quite low and they carry a fair few interactions respectively.

I’ve had good success with the unique SSRE Tianeptine which I started last year.

Best of luck.

88

[quote]CopingMechanism wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]

Tramadol is quite popular on other board I frequent.

Everyday use - forget it. Especially if you’re after an anti-depressant effect. Your tolerance will build fairly quick and it’s that point you’ll either need to hop off the ride…or start messing with higher doses, which is never a smart thing with opiod acting drugs.

Couple of times a week, you can get away with that, but there are probably better long-term strategies.

Have you tried any of the older tricyclics or the MAOI’s?. These tend to be far better drugs really than the SSRI’s but docs are relucutant because their overodse margin is quite low and they carry a fair few interactions respectively.

I’ve had good success with the unique SSRE Tianeptine which I started last year.

Best of luck.
[/quote]

The tricyclics often have more side effects too.

89

[quote]CopingMechanism wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]

Tramadol is quite popular on other board I frequent.

Everyday use - forget it. Especially if you’re after an anti-depressant effect. Your tolerance will build fairly quick and it’s that point you’ll either need to hop off the ride…or start messing with higher doses, which is never a smart thing with opiod acting drugs.

Couple of times a week, you can get away with that, but there are probably better long-term strategies.

Have you tried any of the older tricyclics or the MAOI’s?. These tend to be far better drugs really than the SSRI’s but docs are relucutant because their overodse margin is quite low and they carry a fair few interactions respectively.

I’ve had good success with the unique SSRE Tianeptine which I started last year.

Best of luck.
[/quote]

Thanks for the advice/knowledge. I haven’t tried any of the older meds. I’ve tried: Effexor, Prozac, Wellbutrin, Lexapro (bad sexual side effects), Viibryd, Abilify.

I think the most important thing I got from this “discovery” is that something actually DID work for me, even if it’s not really a viable solution. I’d sort of given up on the medication route. Time to talk to my psychiatrist again (or find a better one).

It feels great to feel normal again.

90

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]CopingMechanism wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]

Tramadol is quite popular on other board I frequent.

Everyday use - forget it. Especially if you’re after an anti-depressant effect. Your tolerance will build fairly quick and it’s that point you’ll either need to hop off the ride…or start messing with higher doses, which is never a smart thing with opiod acting drugs.

Couple of times a week, you can get away with that, but there are probably better long-term strategies.

Have you tried any of the older tricyclics or the MAOI’s?. These tend to be far better drugs really than the SSRI’s but docs are relucutant because their overodse margin is quite low and they carry a fair few interactions respectively.

I’ve had good success with the unique SSRE Tianeptine which I started last year.

Best of luck.
[/quote]

The tricyclics often have more side effects too.[/quote]

I wouldn’t neccesarily say more, but yes, they’re not without their sides either. They tend to be and are reflective of their anti-cholinerigc and anti-histaminergic action - tachycardia, orthostatic hypotension, reduced gut motility, excessive sedation etc. The rarity of sexual side-effects, along with the risks of akathisia seen with SSRI/SNRI’s is clinically significant. It’s all very much dose-dependent though, and a cost to benefit ratio than needs to be weighed up in any decision.

91

how in the fuck is the first response you need medication?

92

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]
Tramadol is not an opiate its a central opioid agonist and is not even close to Effexor which is a SNRI.
Are you sure it was Tramadol? [/quote]

Yes, I’m sure it’s Tramadol. As far as it being an opioid, I guess it’s not technically an opioid… just that it has opioid effects, inclusive of the addictive properties.

And:
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Abstract/2008/02000/Similar_Effects_of_Tramadol_and_Venlafaxine_in.25.aspx

“The analgesic tramadol has many characteristics in common with the antidepressant venlafaxine. The drugs are structurally similar, share both serotonergic and noradrenergic properties, and undergo a similar metabolic fate.”[/quote]

It sucks as a pain killer.[/quote]

Pretty much unrelated, but some tricyclics and SSRI’s are being used to treat certain types of pain. [/quote]

Also extremely common to prescribe for stomach and gastro intestinal issues such as IBS because of the large amout of seratonin receptors in the stomach.

93

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]eremesu wrote:
that sounds like weird advice to tell a person with depression that they have low testosterone. that would be like if i went on corn-nation.com and posted that i had depression they would say that it sounded like i needed to eat more corn.
also, if goodfellow is young,has huge biceps and has low T then what does that mean for me? i must be lucky to be alive because i am sure i dont have as much testosterone as he.
[/quote]

Testosterone is far from the only component needed for muscular hypertrophy, and feel free to cross reference anything I have said. I didn’t say he has low T, I said it’s a possibility. You can have high T and be clinically depressed. There are many possible reasons for depression. The best thing to do is root cause analysis. Hormonal imbalance can most definitely be a reason. The effect of the sex hormones on the brain, particularly the health and regeneration of synapses is not something to over look. It’s to often overlooked actually.

Further, aren’t you the one who wanted to take Paxil to last longer in the sack? Drink whiskey, it’s faster and less caustic than Paxil.
[/quote]

This, whiskey dick ftw

94

[quote]paulieserafini wrote:
how in the fuck is the first response you need medication?[/quote]

Because he said he goes to sleep at night hoping he doesn’t wake up in the morning. This is what stood out to me. If this wasn’t said I probably wouldn’t have went to meds right away. But sounds like he’s ill…and you take meds when you are ill… Like I said before its impossible for any of us here to say, but I’m willing to bet that if he goes to a professional and says that he wishes he would die then they would jump to meds as well.

95

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]pat wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:

[quote]Derek542 wrote:

[quote]LoRez wrote:
Has anyone had any success with opioids for depression?

I’ve been through a gamut of SSRIs and SNRIs, with nothing doing much for me. The only thing that had any effect was Viibryd, and it just made me suicidal. (But at least it did something.)

I took some Tramadol last night for some neck pain, and for the first time in months, I actually felt “good” again. Not “high”, just “normal”. I reconfirmed that again today.

Chemically, Tramadol is similar to Effexor, which didn’t work for me… but I’m just wondering if there might be something to this.

Anyone else have similar experiences?

I’m working my way through a thread talking about Tramadol and depression… and I understand there’s significant abuse and addiction potential, so it’s not like I’m saying this is a good idea. Just wondering if anyone else has experienced the same.[/quote]
Tramadol is not an opiate its a central opioid agonist and is not even close to Effexor which is a SNRI.
Are you sure it was Tramadol? [/quote]

Yes, I’m sure it’s Tramadol. As far as it being an opioid, I guess it’s not technically an opioid… just that it has opioid effects, inclusive of the addictive properties.

And:
http://journals.lww.com/smajournalonline/Abstract/2008/02000/Similar_Effects_of_Tramadol_and_Venlafaxine_in.25.aspx

“The analgesic tramadol has many characteristics in common with the antidepressant venlafaxine. The drugs are structurally similar, share both serotonergic and noradrenergic properties, and undergo a similar metabolic fate.”[/quote]

It sucks as a pain killer.[/quote]

Pretty much unrelated, but some tricyclics and SSRI’s are being used to treat certain types of pain. [/quote]

Also extremely common to prescribe for stomach and gastro intestinal issues such as IBS because of the large amout of seratonin receptors in the stomach.
[/quote]

That’s why I take amitriptyline.

96

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
So getting right to the point:

I feel like shit, I have no ‘vitality’ and I go to sleep of a night hoping I don’t wake up the next morning. I know have plenty to live for, I’m in good health, smart, relatively good looking I guess, but I just can’t shake this feeling of emptiness I’ve had for the last 6 months or so.

Does anyone have any advice for getting over this sort of thing? I feel that it would be a bit of a dramatic step to go see a psychiatrist.

P.S. I still go to the gym, 12 times a week lately, mostly because I can shut my brain off and not think about anything.
[/quote]

There is that saying a “a mind is a terrible thing to waste.” I like to shorten it, at times “a mind is a terrible thing.”

I feel for you, and hope you get on the right track, unless you have been through it, no one could explain the despair an individual can go through with mental and emotional illness. Always misunderstood, often marginalized and always stigmatized.

I have dealt with depression and OCD for almost 20 years and have at times felt like an absolute lab rat with the amount of meds I have taken. I will concede that what got me out of my abyss was the combo of psycho therapy and meds.

Medication is a very, very difficult issue for me because while they helped I have been on them for so long I am terrified to go off of them for the fear of losing myself and family once again.

See a professional therapist and psychiatrist, do not go to a GP, as I did a long time ago and was prescribed Welbutrin and it led me into a pysch ward for a little while. As you can read that Welbutrin may effect someone better than others, I am living proof of that, it led me into a mania that could of ended horribly wrong.

You need to listen to other peoples journey but not follow it, while many of us have had similar issues no one has your issues specifically. Get help, understand your warning signs and triggers. Understand and know that there is light at the end of the tunnel, don’t lose hope. Good luck brother[/quote]

Hmmm… that’s why doctors asked 4 or 5 times in different ways if I’ve ever had symptoms of mania before prescribing me wellbutrin.
[/quote]

My GP never asked me, I never experienced Mania before I took Welbutrin.

97

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]Goodfellow wrote:
So getting right to the point:

I feel like shit, I have no ‘vitality’ and I go to sleep of a night hoping I don’t wake up the next morning. I know have plenty to live for, I’m in good health, smart, relatively good looking I guess, but I just can’t shake this feeling of emptiness I’ve had for the last 6 months or so.

Does anyone have any advice for getting over this sort of thing? I feel that it would be a bit of a dramatic step to go see a psychiatrist.

P.S. I still go to the gym, 12 times a week lately, mostly because I can shut my brain off and not think about anything.
[/quote]

There is that saying a “a mind is a terrible thing to waste.” I like to shorten it, at times “a mind is a terrible thing.”

I feel for you, and hope you get on the right track, unless you have been through it, no one could explain the despair an individual can go through with mental and emotional illness. Always misunderstood, often marginalized and always stigmatized.

I have dealt with depression and OCD for almost 20 years and have at times felt like an absolute lab rat with the amount of meds I have taken. I will concede that what got me out of my abyss was the combo of psycho therapy and meds.

Medication is a very, very difficult issue for me because while they helped I have been on them for so long I am terrified to go off of them for the fear of losing myself and family once again.

See a professional therapist and psychiatrist, do not go to a GP, as I did a long time ago and was prescribed Welbutrin and it led me into a pysch ward for a little while. As you can read that Welbutrin may effect someone better than others, I am living proof of that, it led me into a mania that could of ended horribly wrong.

You need to listen to other peoples journey but not follow it, while many of us have had similar issues no one has your issues specifically. Get help, understand your warning signs and triggers. Understand and know that there is light at the end of the tunnel, don’t lose hope. Good luck brother[/quote]

Hmmm… that’s why doctors asked 4 or 5 times in different ways if I’ve ever had symptoms of mania before prescribing me wellbutrin.
[/quote]

My GP never asked me, I never experienced Mania before I took Welbutrin. [/quote]

Wellbutrin is one of the more typically well tolerated ones. But I have heard of it inducing mania, but typically with people who have experienced it before. Sounds like you were really unlucky.

98

[quote]pat wrote:

The problem with drug treatments is that they are seldom a temporary fix. It does happen that people can take them for a while, taper off and be fine. But often it necessitates a life time commitment. So there is a lot to think about when it comes to treating this. [/quote]

This is so important to understand and realize, like I have said before I’ve been on ADs and other stuff for close to 20 years, While I would love to be able to taper off and be drug free I honestly and unfortunately am coming to the realization it may never become a reality.

Good stuff Pat

99

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

Wellbutrin is one of the more typically well tolerated ones. But I have heard of it inducing mania, but typically with people who have experienced it before. Sounds like you were really unlucky. [/quote]

I was very dissapointed believe me, from all the reading I have done it seemed like it was well regarded and one of the few ADs that did not have adverse sexual side effects, in fact for many people it was the opposite.

100

[quote]MattyXL wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

Wellbutrin is one of the more typically well tolerated ones. But I have heard of it inducing mania, but typically with people who have experienced it before. Sounds like you were really unlucky. [/quote]

I was very dissapointed believe me, from all the reading I have done it seemed like it was well regarded and one of the few ADs that did not have adverse sexual side effects, in fact for many people it was the opposite.
[/quote]

And many people who need to lose a few pounds do from the medication. It’s a lot like a mild stimulant in some regards. That’s also perhaps why it can induce mania speaking in more colloquial terminology.