[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
17 is old enough to know that when you bash someone’s head off the pavement, nothing good is going to happen. [/quote]
How do you know this happened? I heard something about “raining down blows MMA style” (not an exact quote). Where did you get this info from?[/quote]
Umm, I read multiple reports about the case in the press…
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’m just a person with a very violent history who probably deserves to be shot and killed, right?
[/quote]
Again, and I’ve said this a couple times now, Martian did not deserve to be shot. It is very, very unlikely, almost certain even, that the reason Martian was in that neighborhood was not with intentions egregious enough to warrant his death.
You have got to separate your emotions out of the argument, the statement I quoted shows you are not.
Did Zimmerman use poor judgment? Sure. I’m not sure Martian’s was all that great either. Did Zimmerman’s actions initiate the confrontation? Yes. But to think he got out of the car with the intention of killing this kid, after he called the police, is sort of silly to be honest.
Question:
You said you would “beat the shit” out of someone that touched you after confronting you. Fair enough. Say you got the person to the ground with relative ease. Would you then climb on top of them and continue to pummel them, or simply stand there, obviously in a position of power and begin defusing the situation/waiting for round two?
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I’m kinda surprised how many people know what happened that night. I’m surprised how people know who started the fight against who.
[quote]Adam Bomb wrote:
In regards to the last name of Zimmerman, I just showed a condo to buyers from Argentina and they didn’t speak one word of English, guess what their last name was? [/quote]
zimm-grandapa-was-a-nazi?
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
I don’t understand why you run if you are not doing anything wrong, considering he was obviously willing to confront Zimmerman. [/quote]
You don’t understand why a 17 year old would run away from an armed adult who was following him?
Also, Didn’t we hear on the 911 call where Martin “checked out” Zimmerman, then ran away? How do you know he was "willing to confront Zimmerman?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
17 is old enough to know that when you bash someone’s head off the pavement, nothing good is going to happen. [/quote]
How do you know this happened? I heard something about “raining down blows MMA style” (not an exact quote). Where did you get this info from?
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I live in a very nice neighborhood in Fairfax, VA. I go to parties and socialize frequently with people in “gated communities”. I have walked to and from houses to my car carrying things. I’m a big scary looking guy according to some people. I have NEVER been approached, challenged, stopped or otherwise impeded while in my neighborhood or in nicer, gated neighborhoods.
If I were minding my business and someone not obviously a police officer followed me in a vehicle at night while on their cell phone, got out and approached me aggressively and in a challenging way, I would most likely be ready to fight them. Not saying I would definitely fight them, but I would definitely preparing for a fight. If they TOUCHED me (i.e. assaulted me) in the course of the interaction I would beat the shit out of them without hesitation. I feel that’s a pretty reasonable reaction for someone minding their own business who is approached at night in an aggressive manner (attacked) by a non police officer (a thug). It all depends on perspective. The KID could have been in fear of his life by Zimmerman’s aggressive approach. We’ll never know, will we?
But then again, what do I know? I’m just a person with a very violent history who probably deserves to be shot and killed, right?
Zimmerman is a stupid bitch who should have stayed in his car. If he goes to prison, he’ll be shanked in his first week if he’s in Gen Pop, within a month or two if he’s in protective custody. If he is acquitted, he’ll DEFINITELY have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life. I don’t really care how this “trial” turns out, it’s all a media circus anyway. But that man WILL pay for his stupidity one way or the other. What don’t come out in the wash WILL come out in the rinse. That’s exactly the kind of vigilante justice that Zimmerman subscribes to, right? I mean if he ISN’T a vigilante, he would have stayed in his car and waited for police, right? I think that “citizens” will make sure that justice is served one way or the other in this case. He’s a dead man walking, it’s only a matter of time.[/quote]
Again, well worded AC
And LOL at not getting my ass beat by a 17 year old…exactly.
[/quote]
The “MMA style blows” comment came from a witness that statement taking the night of the attack that he has since changed after the media shitstorm.
And my point about running is, if Trayvon had been wanted to get out of a confrontation, do you really think Zimmerman could run him down before he could get home especially if you give Martin a head start? Think about that for a second.
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
If the prosecutor tries to paint Martin as an innocent all around good kid, then they open the door for the evidence of him being a thug being presented. The Prosecutor knows this, so they will walk and extremely fine line of how they describe Martin.
[/quote]
Correct. Except the Prosecutor is a moron who will inevitably overstep.[/quote]
That is exactly what will happen. All this evidence that was excluded will become included I think pretty quickly.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
17 is old enough to know that when you bash someone’s head off the pavement, nothing good is going to happen. [/quote]
How do you know this happened? I heard something about “raining down blows MMA style” (not an exact quote). Where did you get this info from?[/quote]
Umm, I read multiple reports about the case in the press…
[/quote]
I’m busting your balls. You are getting it from Zimmerman’s account of what happened. It might be true, but (to the best of my knowledge) no one else backs it up. Further, one of the investigators questioned the claim stating the injuries were inconsistent with that account of what happened.
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I’m kinda surprised how many people know what happened that night. I’m surprised how people know who started the fight against who.
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
I don’t understand why you run if you are not doing anything wrong, considering he was obviously willing to confront Zimmerman. [/quote]
You don’t understand why a 17 year old would run away from an armed adult who was following him?
Also, Didn’t we hear on the 911 call where Martin “checked out” Zimmerman, then ran away? How do you know he was "willing to confront Zimmerman?
[/quote]
The “MMA style blows” comment came from a witness that statement taking the night of the attack that he has since changed after the media shitstorm.
And my point about running is, if Trayvon had been wanted to get out of a confrontation, do you really think Zimmerman could run him down before he could get home especially if you give Martin a head start? Think about that for a second.[/quote]
Two witnesses claimed Martin was on top and punching.
Perhaps you should “think for a second.” I’m a fast guy, but even at my fastest I’m guessing someone in a car could catch up with me.
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
[quote]Chushin wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I live in a very nice neighborhood in Fairfax, VA. I go to parties and socialize frequently with people in “gated communities”. I have walked to and from houses to my car carrying things. I’m a big scary looking guy according to some people. I have NEVER been approached, challenged, stopped or otherwise impeded while in my neighborhood or in nicer, gated neighborhoods.
If I were minding my business and someone not obviously a police officer followed me in a vehicle at night while on their cell phone, got out and approached me aggressively and in a challenging way, I would most likely be ready to fight them. Not saying I would definitely fight them, but I would definitely preparing for a fight. If they TOUCHED me (i.e. assaulted me) in the course of the interaction I would beat the shit out of them without hesitation. I feel that’s a pretty reasonable reaction for someone minding their own business who is approached at night in an aggressive manner (attacked) by a non police officer (a thug). It all depends on perspective. The KID could have been in fear of his life by Zimmerman’s aggressive approach. We’ll never know, will we?
But then again, what do I know? I’m just a person with a very violent history who probably deserves to be shot and killed, right?
Zimmerman is a stupid bitch who should have stayed in his car. If he goes to prison, he’ll be shanked in his first week if he’s in Gen Pop, within a month or two if he’s in protective custody. If he is acquitted, he’ll DEFINITELY have to look over his shoulder for the rest of his life. I don’t really care how this “trial” turns out, it’s all a media circus anyway. But that man WILL pay for his stupidity one way or the other. What don’t come out in the wash WILL come out in the rinse. That’s exactly the kind of vigilante justice that Zimmerman subscribes to, right? I mean if he ISN’T a vigilante, he would have stayed in his car and waited for police, right? I think that “citizens” will make sure that justice is served one way or the other in this case. He’s a dead man walking, it’s only a matter of time.[/quote]
I’m not staking any position here, and am really just curious about something, AC.
Can you imagine any circumstance where you might basically do the things that Zimmerman is known to have done?
Two things that may have brought this question to mind for me are 1) Your obvious nature as a “take charge and act” kind of guy, and 2) Your well-known antipathy towards the police.
I guess the history of break-ins in that community would have to be part of the context of my question.[/quote]
I can’t imagine any circumstance where I get my ass kicked by a 17 year old. Not for the next thirty years, anyway. I cannot imagine taking it upon myself to “patrol” my gated community. I take responsibility for MY castle. As a felon, I’m not allowed to own firearms, but I assure you my wife owns several. If someone were to break into MY house and put MY family at risk, he’d be going out in a body bag. That’s where my responsibility ends as far as I’m concerned. I live in a very tight community. My town has parades all the time and I know everyone on my block on a first name basis.
I’ve fixed at least SOMETHING on most of their houses. But it is not my responsibility to protect any other family but my own. Now my community does NOT have a Home Owners Association. I will NEVER live in a community that has one. I’ll be damned if some controlling asshole is gonna tell me what color to paint the door on the house I own. This neighborhood watch shit is a symptom of hyper controlling HOA’s. Next they’ll be fining you if you mow your lawn a day late. Oh wait… Fuck HOA’s.
If someone breaks into my house when I’m not home, then I get to make an insurance claim and get a new flat screen. I don’t own very many things that are “irreplaceable”. My valuables/cash/silver are in a hidden safe. All of my important documents are scanned and in the cloud with the originals in a safe deposit box. But more importantly, I’m not what one would call an “easy mark”. I take precautions and have plans in place for most situations. As a former criminal, if “I” were casing “MY” house for a possible break in, I’d take a pass and move on to an easier target.
I cannot imagine ever approaching a young man walking along the sidewalk in front of my house and asking him what he was up to. Even if I saw him climbing out of my neighbor’s window with stolen property, I would not approach him because A)He might be armed and I’m not gonna get shot over my neighbor’s stuff. B) he’s LEAVING so he either isn’t a threat to anyone anymore OR he’s already killed them and it’s too late anyway. C) IT’S NOT MY FUCKING BUSINESS. I would call the police and report what I had seen. That’s it.
What Zimmerman did was stupid, reckless and naive. And look at the result. He deserves the public humiliation and trial he’s getting. IMHO, he deserves exactly what he gave Trevon. The situation is a direct result of his bad judgement. And while it very well MAY be within the bounds of Florida’s stand your ground law, it’s chickenshit and is a direct symptom of our society’s unwillingness to take any fucking responsibility for their OWN actions.
I may as well go a corner in Miami’s Glenwood Heights neighborhood and spew a bunch of racist shit. Then when I’m about to get my ass kicked, pull out my gun and kill them all. What’s the difference between that and what Zimmerman did? I was in fear for my life! I had a right to shoot! Didn’t I? Yeah, sure, I DID create the situation… But they ATTACKED ME! It’s fucking bullshit what he did.[/quote]
When did anyone say he was walking down the side walk. When he was first on the phone he was walking around looking in houses which is far more suspicious looking. He then walked towards Zimmerman with his hand in his waist band which if it was me I would have assumed was a gun. I guess that’s the difference in neighborhoods and people. I live in a very rural community and we take care of one another. Just last year I caught a kid stealing tools out of my neighbors shop and held him till the cops came. In an area where there had been break ins I would want whoever did it caught and if someone saw someone acting suspicious I would want them to call and observe what was going on.
Also I pose you this question, if Martin was really that afraid do you really expect me to believe that he couldn’t outrun Zimmerman for 70 yards to his house? Really?? He wasn’t afraid, he was going to try to be a badass and it got him killed. [/quote]
You don’t know his state of mind, do you? NO ONE does. He’s dead. We DO know Zimmerman’s state of mind: Confrontational. “these assholes always get away” “shit he’s running” “are you following him?” “yeah” “WE DON’T NEED YOU TO DO THAT”.
He did it anyway. Chased him down. Cornered him. Confronted him. Failed to control the situation and escalated it to violence.
Anyone here been chased down by a complete stranger? Imagine you’re a black kid in the south getting chased by a white man in the middle of the night in a strange neighborhood.
Does anyone think that MIGHT trigger an instinct to fight?
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
I’m just a person with a very violent history who probably deserves to be shot and killed, right?
[/quote]
Again, and I’ve said this a couple times now, Martian did not deserve to be shot. It is very, very unlikely, almost certain even, that the reason Martian was in that neighborhood was not with intentions egregious enough to warrant his death.
[/quote]Beans, I’m PRETTY SURE in this thread the sentiment that “he’s was acting like a thug or billy bad ass and he got what he deserved” has been expressed.[quote]
You have got to separate your emotions out of the argument, the statement I quoted shows you are not.
[/quote]I’m not emotional. I firmly believe that what don’t come out in the wash, will come out in the rinse. I don’t care how the trial goes, it’s all a politicized media circus anyway.[quote]
Did Zimmerman use poor judgment? Sure. I’m not sure Martian’s was all that great either. Did Zimmerman’s actions initiate the confrontation? Yes. But to think he got out of the car with the intention of killing this kid, after he called the police, is sort of silly to be honest.
[/quote]I don’t think so either. But he DID kill him, regardless of his intention. His assumptions, bad judgement and poor decisions directly led to a young man being shot and killed. Those are indisputable facts. [quote]
Question:
You said you would “beat the shit” out of someone that touched you after confronting you. Fair enough. Say you got the person to the ground with relative ease. Would you then climb on top of them and continue to pummel them, or simply stand there, obviously in a position of power and begin defusing the situation/waiting for round two?[/quote]
I’ve actually been in plenty of situations over the years where I’ve had to fight a stranger unexpectedly. To answer your question, I would do exactly what I’ve done in the past: I would beat them until I believed they were no longer a threat. I would inflict the maximum amount of damage in the least amount of time. If they continued to move or try to get up, I would continue to beat them. Until they were unconscious, incapacitated (broken femur or kneecap, crushed trachea or blinded), or stopped moving (curled up in a fetal position just trying to defend themselves and not attacking). I would not beat them with the intention of killing them (not without good reason), nor would I climb on top of them raining down blows (bad strategy to go to the ground in a street fight) but I would definitely beat them into complete submission.
That sounds brutal, I know. But that’s exactly what a police officer will do to you if they feel threatened. And it’s really the only way to respond to and stop a threat and ensure your safety. Being attacked alone at night in unfamiliar territory puts you on deadly ground. If you contemplate the full ramifications of that scenario, it’s the only logical conclusion. So you have to respond accordingly - On deadly ground, you do battle… It’s brutal, but it’s reality. Those who’ve actually had the unfortunate occasion to fight for their life and lived to tell about it will agree with me.
And LOL at waiting for round two.
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
If the prosecutor tries to paint Martin as an innocent all around good kid, then they open the door for the evidence of him being a thug being presented. The Prosecutor knows this, so they will walk and extremely fine line of how they describe Martin.
[/quote]
Correct. Except the Prosecutor is a moron who will inevitably overstep.[/quote]
That is exactly what will happen. All this evidence that was excluded will become included I think pretty quickly.[/quote]
Either this -
Or -
Defense knows this is a kangaroo court, and is going to spend their time listing the DA’s mistakes, noting the judge’s bias, and get the entire case thrown out on appeal.
This case should have never seen the light of day, and I will continue to donate whatever I can to Zimmerman’s defense fund.
[quote]drunkpig wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
[quote]Jewbacca wrote:
[quote]dmaddox wrote:
If the prosecutor tries to paint Martin as an innocent all around good kid, then they open the door for the evidence of him being a thug being presented. The Prosecutor knows this, so they will walk and extremely fine line of how they describe Martin.
[/quote]
Correct. Except the Prosecutor is a moron who will inevitably overstep.[/quote]
That is exactly what will happen. All this evidence that was excluded will become included I think pretty quickly.[/quote]
Either this -
Or -
Defense knows this is a kangaroo court, and is going to spend their time listing the DA’s mistakes, noting the judge’s bias, and get the entire case thrown out on appeal.
This case should have never seen the light of day, and I will continue to donate whatever I can to Zimmerman’s defense fund.
[/quote]
Thank you, and I truly hope you encourage others to donate as well. That last line is all the proof I will ever need that Happiness & Laughter is not a Finite
thing.
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
I’m kinda surprised how many people know what happened that night. I’m surprised how people know who started the fight against who.
[quote]bpick86 wrote:
I don’t understand why you run if you are not doing anything wrong, considering he was obviously willing to confront Zimmerman. [/quote]
You don’t understand why a 17 year old would run away from an armed adult who was following him?
Also, Didn’t we hear on the 911 call where Martin “checked out” Zimmerman, then ran away? How do you know he was "willing to confront Zimmerman?
[/quote]
The “MMA style blows” comment came from a witness that statement taking the night of the attack that he has since changed after the media shitstorm.
And my point about running is, if Trayvon had been wanted to get out of a confrontation, do you really think Zimmerman could run him down before he could get home especially if you give Martin a head start? Think about that for a second.[/quote]
Two witnesses claimed Martin was on top and punching.
Perhaps you should “think for a second.” I’m a fast guy, but even at my fastest I’m guessing someone in a car could catch up with me.
[/quote]
He wasn’t in his car when he began to chase Martin. That has been stated numerous times. When you also look at the car positioning compared to where Zimmerman ended the 911 call by giving the street names and started back to his truck, and where the confrontation happened, Martin had gotten away. Pure speculation but nothing there suggests beyond a reasonable doubt or really even beyond considerable doubt that Zimmerman did anything wrong from a legal sense. He made some judgement and tactical errors but so did Martin.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Beans, I’m PRETTY SURE in this thread the sentiment that "he’s was acting like a thug or billy bad ass [/quote]
Yes, without question this has been speculated as the case.
I for one, have repeatedly said this was not the case. Unless he was there to rape or murder someone, which is so beyond unlikely it is laughable to even mention, he did not deserve to lose his life.
[quote]
I’ve actually been in plenty of situations over the years where I’ve had to fight a stranger unexpectedly. To answer your question, I would do exactly what I’ve done in the past: I would beat them until I believed they were no longer a threat. I would inflict the maximum amount of damage in the least amount of time. If they continued to move or try to get up, I would continue to beat them. Until they were unconscious, incapacitated (broken femur or kneecap, crushed trachea or blinded), or stopped moving (curled up in a fetal position just trying to defend themselves and not attacking). I would not beat them with the intention of killing them (not without good reason), nor would I climb on top of them raining down blows (bad strategy to go to the ground in a street fight) but I would definitely beat them into complete submission.
That sounds brutal, I know. But that’s exactly what a police officer will do to you if they feel threatened. And it’s really the only way to respond to and stop a threat and ensure your safety. Being attacked alone at night in unfamiliar territory puts you on deadly ground. If you contemplate the full ramifications of that scenario, it’s the only logical conclusion. So you have to respond accordingly - On deadly ground, you do battle… It’s brutal, but it’s reality. Those who’ve actually had the unfortunate occasion to fight for their life and lived to tell about it will agree with me.[/quote]
So this kind of justifies Zimmerman’s use of deadly force then, no?
[quote]Gambit_Lost wrote:
You are getting it from Zimmerman’s account of what happened. It might be true, but (to the best of my knowledge) no one else backs it up. [/quote]
Zimmerman’s word is all that is needed. While self-defense is normally an affirmative defense with the burden on the defendant, in this case the attack by Trayvon is admitted ---- so the state has to prove that Zimmerman provoked the fight.*
The state does not have any evidence of provocation, so Zimmerman will ultimately walk, if not now, then on appeal.
In contrast, let’s say you are walking along, some guy punches you and proceeds to kick your ass, then you shoot him. You would be able to claim self-defense because you were just walking along.
This case gets muddy because of what is considered “provocation.” Typically, it takes more than “fighting words” (e.g., calling someone a “kyke” or a “niggger”) and requires physical contact. I don’t know what Florida law is on provocation, but I suspect it requires some pretty overt “I’m gonna kick your ass” stuff.
Being a busy-body and checking someone out is not provocation under any state’s law.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Beans, I’m PRETTY SURE in this thread the sentiment that "he’s was acting like a thug or billy bad ass [/quote]
Yes, without question this has been speculated as the case.
I for one, have repeatedly said this was not the case. Unless he was there to rape or murder someone, which is so beyond unlikely it is laughable to even mention, he did not deserve to lose his life.
[quote]
I’ve actually been in plenty of situations over the years where I’ve had to fight a stranger unexpectedly. To answer your question, I would do exactly what I’ve done in the past: I would beat them until I believed they were no longer a threat. I would inflict the maximum amount of damage in the least amount of time. If they continued to move or try to get up, I would continue to beat them. Until they were unconscious, incapacitated (broken femur or kneecap, crushed trachea or blinded), or stopped moving (curled up in a fetal position just trying to defend themselves and not attacking). I would not beat them with the intention of killing them (not without good reason), nor would I climb on top of them raining down blows (bad strategy to go to the ground in a street fight) but I would definitely beat them into complete submission.
That sounds brutal, I know. But that’s exactly what a police officer will do to you if they feel threatened. And it’s really the only way to respond to and stop a threat and ensure your safety. Being attacked alone at night in unfamiliar territory puts you on deadly ground. If you contemplate the full ramifications of that scenario, it’s the only logical conclusion. So you have to respond accordingly - On deadly ground, you do battle… It’s brutal, but it’s reality. Those who’ve actually had the unfortunate occasion to fight for their life and lived to tell about it will agree with me.[/quote]
So this kind of justifies Zimmerman’s use of deadly force then, no? [/quote]
Twist it all you want, Beans. I believe I specifically said I would NOT beat anyone with the intention of killing them, much less shoot them in a fist fight, but whatever - nice strawman. Zimmerman got out of his fucking car and pursued Martin. Anything after that is on him. He SAYS Martin attacked him, but we’ll never know because he shot him dead. If he had stayed in his car (or even better, his house) and minded his own business instead of trying to act like a fucking police, Martin would be alive.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: I don’t care about the trial. I have absolutely NO faith in the “justice” system whatsoever. But Zimmerman will pay for his stupidity. He’ll either be convicted and get shanked in prison or he’ll be acquitted and look over his shoulder until someone shoots his pathetic ass. I personally hope it’s the latter, as it would be the most fitting.
Seriously, what kind of a pathetic pussy shoots someone in a fist fight?
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Seriously, what kind of a pathetic pussy shoots someone in a fist fight?[/quote]
the person who is losing the fight and has a gun? If you dont know who’s kicking your ass, and whether or not they understand the concept of “he’s had enough, that’s it”. I’d shoot the fuck out of somebody before i’d let them beat me to death.
hopefully zimmerman walks, not just because it’s a stupid case and should never have been brought to trial, but because i love watching riots on tv…
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Seriously, what kind of a pathetic pussy shoots someone in a fist fight?[/quote]
the person who is losing the fight and has a gun? If you dont know who’s kicking your ass, and whether or not they understand the concept of “he’s had enough, that’s it”. I’d shoot the fuck out of somebody before i’d let them beat me to death.
hopefully zimmerman walks, not just because it’s a stupid case and should never have been brought to trial, but because i love watching riots on tv…[/quote]
St. Trayvon allegedly grabbed the concealed pistol and Zimmerman shot him.
[quote]Aggv wrote:
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Seriously, what kind of a pathetic pussy shoots someone in a fist fight?[/quote]
the person who is losing the fight and has a gun? If you dont know who’s kicking your ass, and whether or not they understand the concept of “he’s had enough, that’s it”. I’d shoot the fuck out of somebody before i’d let them beat me to death.
hopefully zimmerman walks, not just because it’s a stupid case and should never have been brought to trial, but because i love watching riots on tv…[/quote]
Ahhh, Poor Naive young man. The only riot from this will be from 10 kids who already planned to rob and steel but found this a good excuse to gain sympathy when caught.
Despite the desperate effort to turn this into a race thing it has become the NRA & NAGR most damaging nightmare. The idea that this Dumbass will become a poster child by the liberals for CCW holders is giving most of us migraines. Has no one wondered why none of the big gun rights groups support this guy.
Oh well, one small shot from a wannabe cop, one giant step back for gun activist and our American rights.
[quote]angry chicken wrote:
Twist it all you want, Beans. I believe I specifically said I would NOT beat anyone with the intention of killing them, much less shoot them in a fist fight, but whatever - nice strawman. [/quote]
That is not my intention, and I apologize. Let me try it this way:
There are three issues with this case, in my view.
Media Circus - we largely agree (i’m assuming a little here based on your posts) that it is foolish and creating problems that shouldn’t exist.
Zimmerman’s Judgment - In hindsight, it was poor. (If poor isn’t a strong enough word, feel free to replace it with whatever word you feel appropriate.) However, he had every reason to question why Martin was in the area. This is where the issue begins. You don’t feel Zimmerman had the justification for confronting Martian. I do. I have watched shady looking people that have walked past my house, until they are well out of eyesight before, and would be appreciative of my neighbors that did the same.
I don’t have a problem with Zimmerman’s intention, and his intention was to prevent a crime. I do understand your perspective of it though too. But the over riding factor he for me is his involvement in the Watch and his promise to his neighbors (through his involvement in the Watch) to act on their best interests and not just his own.
To some people this makes him a jerk and a wanna-be cop. I guess to a degree, I agree. But in a bigger picture sense I fall onto the side of “he was doing what he promised he would do, which is watch the neighborhood.”
I think it is pretty obvious he didn’t intent to murder Martin. As few people would alert the police through detailed 911 calls that they were about to kill a person.
So here is where I stand on this portion of the issue. If Zimmerman initiated the physical confrontation, pushing, shoving or swinging, then he should go to prison, for a long time. If however MArtian initiated the physical confrontation, Zimmerman should walk. Based on what I’ve read, and let’s be honest it isn’t like the press is pro-Zimmerman, and the descriptions of the two’s past and character… I tend to believe Martian more likely than not played a significant role in this going from verbal to physical altercation. Martian certainly put Zimmerman in a fight or flight, “deadly battle” position after the physical altercation started.
Conversely, I think it is safe to say the man that just got done telling the police he was approaching a suspicious person, didn’t attack the unarmed innocent kid that simply said “fuck you buddy I’m walking home”. If he did that would make him the dumbest criminal on Earth. That would make Zimmerman the Obama of Neighborhood Watches. Possible, but unlikely.
So, even though it is valid to say Zimmerman should have stayed in the car. It is also valid to say that Martian should have just said “fuck you buddy, I’m walking home.”
[quote] He’ll either be convicted and get shanked in prison or he’ll be acquitted and look over his shoulder until someone shoots his pathetic ass. I personally hope it’s the latter, as it would be the most fitting.
Seriously, what kind of a pathetic pussy shoots someone in a fist fight?[/quote]
Someone losing while “doing battle on deadly ground”?
[quote]four60 wrote:
The idea that this Dumbass will become a poster child by the liberals for CCW holders is giving most of us migraines. Has no one wondered why none of the big gun rights groups support this guy.
Oh well, one small shot from a wannabe cop, one giant step back for gun activist and our American rights.[/quote]
This, but they may have overplayed their hand a little with the ridiculous racebaiting by the POTUS and on the congressional floor, among others.
