Trayvon Martin Pt. 2 'The Legacy'

[countingbeans]

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Ok maybe that was dick of me how I worded it my bad. [/quote]

Fair enough.

But if someones best advice is "take your black wife and brown kids up root yourself from your family, home, business and move to a fictional place that doesnt exist whats a good word for describing that concept?

Silly?

I don’t know, I plan on moving to NH once my son graduates high school. Because NH is much more pro individual liberty than the People’s Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Sure your son will see a man in the mirror. But when strangers that dont know your son see him without you by his side what will they see before he has a chance to talk, or exchange generalities?

What does he, I or anyone give a fuck about that, really? I’ll get to this more in a min.

If you want to believe all is well and everyone respects each other equally and people dont jump to conclusions based on initial glance ok I can dig it.

I know for a fact not everyone is like this. I know quite a few people who aren’t ever going to give someone of a different race the time of day simply because they are different. I can’t change that, my son can’t change that, and there are bigger fears out their to be honest.

Case in point: A Bigot’s worst fear? Their daughter dating a black guy (let’s assume college so I can make my point). All the while ignoring that black kids are less likely to binge drink at college. Which means more focus on studies and less of a chance of date rape. (Read this somewhere I can’t remember where.)

Anyway…

Its real and exists and in a world now where almost anyone can be armed to the teath its some scary shit.

American’s have been “armed to the teeth” compared to the rest of the vaginal world around us, since day one. This isn’t any sort of new concern. And if your point stood as it was said, every white kid circa age of 8ish would be in exponentially more danger due to what happened in CT recently.

Also, I am about as staunch a 2nd supporter as you will find, so…

[quote] All Im saying is ask your black and brown friends or relatives in metro areas how they feel about the safty of their sons, or for that matter how the feel protected by the police.
[/quote]

Look, I’ve been drinking (for the first time in a long time) so I am going to give it to you straight.

You want to know what I teach my kids: C.R.E.A.M. Thank you Wu Tang.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

Period. Full Stop. End of message.

There will always be rich people, and there will always be poor people, irrelevant what the progressives tell you, a “cliff notes” version of human history proves this. It is my kid’s job to figure out a way to get the people richer than them to want to give them money, add value to their life.

I grew up poor. At 30 I made more than my parents combined and then some. If my kids can do the same, and my grand-kids the same, guess what: wealth. I did this by getting my letters and helping people live their dreams. And after 7 years working with these rich ass mofo’s, and studying this shit for 11 years I can, with the utmost confidence, promise you and anyone there isn’t a single person on Earth who actually care about getting paid that gives two flying fucks what your skin color is, ethnic back ground is or any of that shit.

Green is the only color that matters. Green is the true supremacy. I don’t care if you are a black dude who wears house slippers, white tank and has a swastika on your forehead, if you can add 1mil worth of value, someone is going to pay you 250k-500k to add it. You know what I’m saying?

You stay focused on making legit money, keep your ass away from drugs, maintain your integrity 100% of the time, and your chances of caring what ignorant people think starts dropping real quick.

Between the Zimmerman case and Sandy Hook, I have one kid that is going to be Martin’s age by the time my other kid is the Sandy Hook age… You can’t prevent tragedy, and that is what these two events have in common, tragedy. You do your best, hope for the best and teach your kids to think the right things and make good choices. The rest? As some would say is in god’s hands.

The only thing you can ever truly rely on is yourself. No one, not the government, not your parents, not your wife, not a damn soul on Earth can be reliable as yourself. No protests or petitions are going to change anything on their own. People in their hearts have to change. You, I nor anyone can change hearts, only each person can change their own. So you leave the world with kids (or other accomplishments) that make the right kind of impact, teach your kids to do the same, and hope the rest of the world gets their head out of their ass.

Worrying about or waiting for the rest of the world to catch up to you is silly.

[Cortes]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]thehebrewhero wrote:
Ok maybe that was dick of me how I worded it my bad. [/quote]

Fair enough.

But if someones best advice is "take your black wife and brown kids up root yourself from your family, home, business and move to a fictional place that doesnt exist whats a good word for describing that concept?

Silly?

I don’t know, I plan on moving to NH once my son graduates high school. Because NH is much more pro individual liberty than the People’s Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

Sure your son will see a man in the mirror. But when strangers that dont know your son see him without you by his side what will they see before he has a chance to talk, or exchange generalities?

What does he, I or anyone give a fuck about that, really? I’ll get to this more in a min.

If you want to believe all is well and everyone respects each other equally and people dont jump to conclusions based on initial glance ok I can dig it.

I know for a fact not everyone is like this. I know quite a few people who aren’t ever going to give someone of a different race the time of day simply because they are different. I can’t change that, my son can’t change that, and there are bigger fears out their to be honest.

Case in point: A Bigot’s worst fear? Their daughter dating a black guy (let’s assume college so I can make my point). All the while ignoring that black kids are less likely to binge drink at college. Which means more focus on studies and less of a chance of date rape. (Read this somewhere I can’t remember where.)

Anyway…

Its real and exists and in a world now where almost anyone can be armed to the teath its some scary shit.

American’s have been “armed to the teeth” compared to the rest of the vaginal world around us, since day one. This isn’t any sort of new concern. And if your point stood as it was said, every white kid circa age of 8ish would be in exponentially more danger due to what happened in CT recently.

Also, I am about as staunch a 2nd supporter as you will find, so…

[quote] All Im saying is ask your black and brown friends or relatives in metro areas how they feel about the safty of their sons, or for that matter how the feel protected by the police.
[/quote]

Look, I’ve been drinking (for the first time in a long time) so I am going to give it to you straight.

You want to know what I teach my kids: C.R.E.A.M. Thank you Wu Tang.

Cash Rules Everything Around Me.

Period. Full Stop. End of message.

There will always be rich people, and there will always be poor people, irrelevant what the progressives tell you, a “cliff notes” version of human history proves this. It is my kid’s job to figure out a way to get the people richer than them to want to give them money, add value to their life.

I grew up poor. At 30 I made more than my parents combined and then some. If my kids can do the same, and my grand-kids the same, guess what: wealth. I did this by getting my letters and helping people live their dreams. And after 7 years working with these rich ass mofo’s, and studying this shit for 11 years I can, with the utmost confidence, promise you and anyone there isn’t a single person on Earth who actually care about getting paid that gives two flying fucks what your skin color is, ethnic back ground is or any of that shit.

Green is the only color that matters. Green is the true supremacy. I don’t care if you are a black dude who wears house slippers, white tank and has a swastika on your forehead, if you can add 1mil worth of value, someone is going to pay you 250k-500k to add it. You know what I’m saying?

You stay focused on making legit money, keep your ass away from drugs, maintain your integrity 100% of the time, and your chances of caring what ignorant people think starts dropping real quick.

Between the Zimmerman case and Sandy Hook, I have one kid that is going to be Martin’s age by the time my other kid is the Sandy Hook age… You can’t prevent tragedy, and that is what these two events have in common, tragedy. You do your best, hope for the best and teach your kids to think the right things and make good choices. The rest? As some would say is in god’s hands.

The only thing you can ever truly rely on is yourself. No one, not the government, not your parents, not your wife, not a damn soul on Earth can be reliable as yourself. No protests or petitions are going to change anything on their own. People in their hearts have to change. You, I nor anyone can change hearts, only each person can change their own. So you leave the world with kids (or other accomplishments) that make the right kind of impact, teach your kids to do the same, and hope the rest of the world gets their head out of their ass.

Worrying about or waiting for the rest of the world to catch up to you is silly. [/quote]

My man 'beans speakin truth!

[StevenF]

I like you beans.

[aussie486]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

The only thing you can ever truly rely on is yourself. No one, not the government, not your parents, not your wife, not a damn soul on Earth can be reliable as yourself. No protests or petitions are going to change anything on their own. People in their hearts have to change. You, I nor anyone can change hearts, only each person can change their own. So you leave the world with kids (or other accomplishments) that make the right kind of impact, teach your kids to do the same, and hope the rest of the world gets their head out of their ass.

[/quote]

Yep, fucking spot on.

[Krinks]

Cut through the fog of this case with the following. Asian immigrants from China mostly come to the west coast with literally nothing. Their children have all of the top spots at the west coast universities to the point they are penalized on admissions.

Lest you think they are genetically and racially superior you need to ask yourself why? What do they have that others don’t have? The two answers are:

#1 Strong families
#2 Know the value of hard work

There is nothing these Asians do that the black community couldn’t do. Seeing as how they don’t, that is on them.

[The_Mighty_Stu]

[quote]Krinks wrote:
Cut through the fog of this case with the following. Asian immigrants from China mostly come to the west coast with literally nothing. Their children have all of the top spots at the west coast universities to the point they are penalized on admissions.

Lest you think they are genetically and racially superior you need to ask yourself why? What do they have that others don’t have? The two answers are:

#1 Strong families
#2 Know the value of hard work

There is nothing these Asians do that the black community couldn’t do. Seeing as how they don’t, that is on them. [/quote]

^This. I see and am presented with supporting data concerning this information everyday as a New York City high school teacher. It’s all too easy to just blame the students for their failings academically as well as in how they conduct themselves in social situations, but it really can be traced to their upbringing, or to be more specific, lack of a supportive upbringing. When parents either don’t care, or aren’t around, it doesn’t create an ideal environment for a child to truly have a sense of what they can, or should do.

Still, I have had many Asian students whose parents work full time, or even multiple jobs and are hardly around, and yet the children have still been raised with a sense of the importance of education and hard work. More often than not (seriously more often than not), this is sadly not the case in other student populations.

S

[Professor_X]

[quote]installglass wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

It all depends on a lot more than dress. So people with good judgment look beyond dress, when possible. [/quote]

I was attacked for saying the same in different words. I agree…so this is also why I asked what exactly these people were doing in that “drive way scenario” that made them THUGS if he knew there was a house party nearby.

[/quote]

I’m on vacation and had to stop back to see if this shit was still going on. X you are an idiot and a waste of time. Apparently you know the situation better than I. You know the guy who was there and fearful. I don’t have to explain myself to you and neither does anyone else. You have made this into something it wasnt. You are accusing people of not answering your questions and yet you don’t pay attention to anything that might call you out. ie. you were asked 5 guys standing in your driveway in white robes. What do you do? You skipped that [/quote]

I skipped it?

It never was about if calling the cops was wrong to do. That is what you didn’t understand.

It was about showing that it damn sure isn’t the best move in every circumstance.

Relating sagging pants to white robes is…interesting.

Like I told you before the same group of people took this thread sideways, I THANK YOU for sharing your story because we can discuss it here in similar context to the topic we were discussing. Maybe you “skipped” that due to the several pages of nonsense.

You took that as me somehow telling you that your way is wrong in all circumstances.

Bottom line, CULTURAL BACKGROUND will determine response…and those who thought it was IDIOTIC to not call the cops may be more socially unaware than they want to admit.

[Professor_X]

It was said yesterday that this man is a THUG.

I am still waiting for someone to explain to me what makes him one.

[Professor_X]

[quote]Krinks wrote:
Cut through the fog of this case with the following. Asian immigrants from China mostly come to the west coast with literally nothing. Their children have all of the top spots at the west coast universities to the point they are penalized on admissions.

Lest you think they are genetically and racially superior you need to ask yourself why? What do they have that others don’t have? The two answers are:

#1 Strong families
#2 Know the value of hard work

There is nothing these Asians do that the black community couldn’t do. Seeing as how they don’t, that is on them. [/quote]

This post seems to ignore the influence of society.

No culture lives in a vacuum outside of social influence.

One thing the Asians do NOT have is the entire destruction of their heritage and ancestry and the relatively recent formation of an entirely new culture in a different relatively hostile society.

[DarkNinjaa]

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

My Boy is 15, it is my daughter that is 18 months.

Sure we’ve seen some shit, and the stories HH told about what people say around you when they don’t know your kids is true. But neither he nor I can cure ignorance. So he knows to be himself, forget people that should be forgotten, and that the best revenge is to live well.

Teach your kids to see people not colors and live well. I can, and have, proven over and over, minority status, skin color, none of that will stop you if you want it bad enough. (Helps when I show him the AGI of one of my clients, lol.)

[/quote]

15 years old son??? Fuck me. You had him at 16 or something?

Anyway, as a white man, CB, you will never understand what it feels like discriminated against. And I’m not even talking about being called a fucking N**** because that word has no effect on me. It’s all cool and dandy to write what you did here and in the other post when you’ve never been in a black person’s shoe. Most blacks deal with racism for the major part of their lives and, someone who hasn’t gone through that shit has no idea what it fucking feels like. I know a lot of white people would rather blacks ‘‘stop playing the victim’’ – yeah, that’s what most of you call it – when blacks mention racism. However, it is not about ‘‘playing victim’’, it’s protesting against attitudes, and a system put in place to marginalize a different group of people. Many won’t admit it, but hey, that’s a fact.

Yes, money rules. It makes you live well. But that ain’t enough, when you’re constantly reminded of the colour of your skin, when you want to believe you are part of color blind world. I’m a multimillionaire, some of the people in my circle are a bunch of wealthy black people but, that won’t matter to a cop, a CPB officer or any other motherfucker in a position of power, a potential business partner, a sales assistant in her jewellery or department store, or some twat at Disney World.

My parents taught me from a very young age, to be colour blind. But very soon, I had to deal with racism bullshit toward me, my relatives and friends, and the fucking pigs brutality and, then, I began to wonder why the fuck people treated blacks this bad. And it’s not as if my family was from the fucking ghetto. We lived in middle class white neighbourhoods and, every day, we were reminded we weren’t welcome. School wasn’t fun either. I grew up with the racist bullshit and that had hardened me. No one was going to walk over me. I was not about playing the victim. Racism drove me to be successful.

Yes, money is power, money rules. And it feels great to be respected for my hard work and my fucking entrepreneurship when I chair my meetings. I usually have a fucking smirk on my face when meeting potential business partners/ clients for the very first time. Seeing their fucking face drop in shock, is fucking satisfying, because I know they didn’t expect a black woman to turn up. One time, a potential client didn’t even want to deal with me after that. I didn’t give a fucking damn. It just reaffirmed what I was already aware of.

Just because I’m rich and successful and live well, I should not protest, I should turn a blind eye and ignore the injustice blacks are going through? Just because I live well, I must teach my kids to ignore ignorance, because we live in a '‘color blind’ world? I’m sorry but that’s total bollocks. The TM case has shown me how racial tensions still exist between blacks and whites. And this will not change for many generations. It is my job to make my future children aware of the fucking racist shit they will go through, before and after they graduate from Oxford, Havard or Paris Polytechnique. If I can be part of a protest against a set of laws put into place to marginalize minorities, I will be. I will not look the other way to make some people comfortable, and to expect systematic racism against blacks to go away, when something needs to be done about it.

And regarding protest, since many are ‘‘outraged’’ by it, people have the right to live in a country where justice prevails and the lives of people of EVERY race and ethnicity are valued and protected. Yes, what happened to TM was a tragedy but you(generally speaking) can’t tell people not to be outraged and stand up for what’s right. Blacks should have not been outraged about the death of MLK? Blacks should have not been outraged about Emmitt Till?? Some people can stay not outraged if they want, but blacks are going to protest so that their future sons can walk down the street in a hoodie with skittles and ice tea and be SAFE. Just like their ancestors fought before them so the future will be better for their children and their descendants.

[Professor_X]

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

Still, I have had many Asian students whose parents work full time, or even multiple jobs and are hardly around, and yet the children have still been raised with a sense of the importance of education and hard work.
S[/quote]

Do you see that this is a cultural issue?

Do most Asians see their only way out of a poor environment to be mostly “sports” or “drugs”?

Do you blame the race alone for the culture it lives in and not the society that nurtured it?

[DBCooper]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

Still, I have had many Asian students whose parents work full time, or even multiple jobs and are hardly around, and yet the children have still been raised with a sense of the importance of education and hard work.
S[/quote]

Do you see that this is a cultural issue?

Do most Asians see their only way out of a poor environment to be mostly “sports” or “drugs”?

Do you blame the race alone for the culture it lives in and not the society that nurtured it?[/quote]

Could you please address these statistics and why they are so skewed?

http://news.yahoo.com/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism-070000529.html

[DarkNinjaa]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Krinks wrote:
Cut through the fog of this case with the following. Asian immigrants from China mostly come to the west coast with literally nothing. Their children have all of the top spots at the west coast universities to the point they are penalized on admissions.

Lest you think they are genetically and racially superior you need to ask yourself why? What do they have that others don’t have? The two answers are:

#1 Strong families
#2 Know the value of hard work

There is nothing these Asians do that the black community couldn’t do. Seeing as how they don’t, that is on them. [/quote]

This post seems to ignore the influence of society.

No culture lives in a vacuum outside of social influence.

One thing the Asians do NOT have is the entire destruction of their heritage and ancestry and the relatively recent formation of an entirely new culture in a different relatively hostile society.
[/quote]

Fucking preach.

But let them tell you otherwise. ‘‘Black people have only themselves to blame if they can’t do no good with their life’’

If you go back two generations, you’d see black entrepreneurs and neighbourhoods were striving.

Actually let’s go further back when whites supremacists took lands that black men earned. They also destroyed towns that were built by blacks and thriving.

Black businesses were doing so well that they tried to cut them off from selling to blacks…by force. They could get away with murder and they did.

When Asians came and, the white saw some were uniting with blacks during the civil rights movement, they decided that they were the “good minority”, easier to control and influence. They gave them “benefits” for opening up stores in predominantly black areas. Blacks were simultaneously hit by drugs and, broken families resulted in that.

[The_Mighty_Stu]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

Still, I have had many Asian students whose parents work full time, or even multiple jobs and are hardly around, and yet the children have still been raised with a sense of the importance of education and hard work.
S[/quote]

Do you see that this is a cultural issue?

Do most Asians see their only way out of a poor environment to be mostly “sports” or “drugs”?

Do you blame the race alone for the culture it lives in and not the society that nurtured it?[/quote]

I’ve seen children off all races that seem to fall in line with the societal pressures and attitudes that are routinely blamed for their failings and shortcomings, just as I’ve seen children of all races who are able to see the big picture for themselves and not fall into the blame game no matter how their friends and peers may not be able to. All of these children live in the same neighborhoods, and have been in school together for the last ~12 years.
As to the sports and drugs, IMO it’s the entire generation, not simply the blacks that view these as possible options. Those perceived as ‘celebrities’ are very often not those that young people should expect to realistically emulate as a prescription for success in their lives.

I don’t blame race, at all, that’s a cop out on both sides of the argument. If anything society has a much larger effect. Specifically though I blame parents. Unfortunately if you look at the role parents choose to take in their children’s lives, you will see a large difference among racial breakdowns. Now is that completely the result of biologically determined race (a ridiculous notion IMO), or is it the effect of multiple generations propagating attitudes that aren’t fostering a sense of capability? I certainly won’t give you my opinion, lest someone say that I can’t give an objective view.

S

[installglass]

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]installglass wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

It all depends on a lot more than dress. So people with good judgment look beyond dress, when possible. [/quote]

I was attacked for saying the same in different words. I agree…so this is also why I asked what exactly these people were doing in that “drive way scenario” that made them THUGS if he knew there was a house party nearby.

[/quote]

I’m on vacation and had to stop back to see if this shit was still going on. X you are an idiot and a waste of time. Apparently you know the situation better than I. You know the guy who was there and fearful. I don’t have to explain myself to you and neither does anyone else. You have made this into something it wasnt. You are accusing people of not answering your questions and yet you don’t pay attention to anything that might call you out. ie. you were asked 5 guys standing in your driveway in white robes. What do you do? You skipped that [/quote]

I skipped it?

It never was about if calling the cops was wrong to do. That is what you didn’t understand.

It was about showing that it damn sure isn’t the best move in every circumstance.

Relating sagging pants to white robes is…interesting.

Like I told you before the same group of people took this thread sideways, I THANK YOU for sharing your story because we can discuss it here in similar context to the topic we were discussing. Maybe you “skipped” that due to the several pages of nonsense.

You took that as me somehow telling you that your way is wrong in all circumstances.

Bottom line, CULTURAL BACKGROUND will determine response…and those who thought it was IDIOTIC to not call the cops may be more socially unaware than they want to admit.[/quote]

1. I had no idea there was a house party.
2. Makes no difference. My property. Not theirs. Maybe had I known I would have approached it differently.
3. Whether you believe this or not I would have been on the bad side of this had I approached them. I’m
   100% positive. They were assholes and proved it. We can go back to neighborhoods if you’d like. I wouldn’t have made it out of the neighborhood I grew up in (being white) if my younger brother hasn’t entered the gang when we moved there. People were sent to the hospital daily for no other crime than being white. I was off limits because of my brother. Yes I’ve gained a healthy fear of people who dress that way. White, black, Hispanic, etc… It’s kept me alive. You can debate that any way you’d like. If it were just 1 person I could hold my own given no weapons. A group of perceived “thugs”, I will
   Steer clear of. A lot of people use the “if you were black, you’d understand” line. Well you didn’t grow up a white kid in my neighborhood. So don’t act like you know what I’ve been through or tell me how I should properly make decisions based on my experiences.

[installglass]

Also X, just so you know. Keeping in mind because you seem to conveniently forget things, they had and have no idea who
I was. The group hosting the party were assholes too. The whole lot of people were pretty shitty. Trying to be a good neighbor 30 min later I approached a group of people that were parking in the lot across from me to let them they could get towed for parking there and they tried to start an altercation with me. I walked away after informing them I was just trying to help and that if they hadnt been rude I could have informed them where to park without getting towed.

I suppose you are going to say just because one group treated me that way doesn’t mean the other would have but if you do that’s ignorant. The group on my property threatened a cop for politely saying you can’t park there. You may also say well you walked away. After the first group threatened a cop
I didn’t get close. The attempted altercation would have been than an attempt had I. I did however attempt to be helpful anyway. It’s the type of person I am.

[Professor_X]

[quote]installglass wrote:

1. I had no idea there was a house party.[/quote]

Not really relevant to the cultural issue being discussed but ok.

[quote]

2. Makes no difference. My property. Not theirs. Maybe had I known I would have approached it differently.
3. Whether you believe this or not I would have been on the bad side of this had I approached them. I’m
   100% positive.[/quote]

That may be part of the problem…that you were so POSITIVE that no other way to solve the problem better existed in any circumstance.

[Professor_X]

[quote]installglass wrote:
The group hosting the party were assholes too. The whole lot of people were pretty shitty.[/quote]

All this does is show that you disliked your neighbors.

This is not and never has been just about whether you should have called the cops. Once again, this is about the bigger picture of why one culture would see this as the WRONG thing to do in all circumstances and how another sees any other perspective as flat out WRONG all the way around.

[Professor_X]

[quote]DBCooper wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

Still, I have had many Asian students whose parents work full time, or even multiple jobs and are hardly around, and yet the children have still been raised with a sense of the importance of education and hard work.
S[/quote]

Do you see that this is a cultural issue?

Do most Asians see their only way out of a poor environment to be mostly “sports” or “drugs”?

Do you blame the race alone for the culture it lives in and not the society that nurtured it?[/quote]

Could you please address these statistics and why they are so skewed?

http://news.yahoo.com/black-americas-real-problem-isnt-white-racism-070000529.html[/quote]

Possibly because of the cultural issues involved and not the skin color?

[Professor_X]

[quote]The Mighty Stu wrote:

All of these children live in the same neighborhoods, and have been in school together for the last ~12 years. [/quote]

This does not explain how a culture is supposed to react to the complete destruction of their history and heritage.

[quote]
As to the sports and drugs, IMO it’s the entire generation, not simply the blacks that view these as possible options. [/quote]

I didn’t say “possible options”. I was referring to them seeing it as THE ONLY OPTION.

[quote]
I don’t blame race, at all, that’s a cop out on both sides of the argument.[/quote]

How can that be in a society that literally judges “crime stats” by race alone as was just shown by DB Cooper?

[quote]
If anything society has a much larger effect.[/quote]

Well, we agree here.

[quote]
Specifically though I blame parents.
Unfortunately if you look at the role parents choose to take in their children’s lives, you will see a large difference among racial breakdowns. Now is that completely the result of biologically determined race (a ridiculous notion IMO), or is it the effect of multiple generations propagating attitudes that aren’t fostering a sense of capability? I certainly won’t give you my opinion, lest someone say that I can’t give an objective view.

S[/quote]

I am not sure what you mean by this and am a little worried that you even considered this a biological determinant.

Yes, parents are to blame…and it is also true that much like rape, cultural breakdown is cyclical and perpetual unless large social change is activated.