Train bombings in Spain

Off Topic
61

Kuri, I misunderstood when you wrote “Seems many in Europe knew it had nothing to do with a war on terror.”

“It” refers to Iraq, not Europe. Sorry, brain fart.

In my opinion, most people in Europe thought Iraq had little to do with sponsering terrorism compared to Afghanistan, but their reluctance to liberate the Iraqis from dictatorship came from a phlegmatic desire to be as little involved as possible in the struggle against Islamofascism. Also, many world leaders stood to benefit from the status quo in Iraq and were not going to try to persuade their public that Saddam Hussein was an evil the world community could do something about.

62

Kuri writes:

“Using resources does not mean waging war. There are more effective ways.”

Well, you said “war on terrorism.” Please explain to us your “more effective ways.” Can’t wait to hear them? Please explain the effective ways “OUR resources” [which seemed to imply troops in the context of “war on terrorism” unless you’re thinking of throwing American money to those nations for their anti-terrorism budget] can be used in Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and Indonesia against terrorism.

63

In anticipation of Kuri’s delightful musings, David Frum makes some astute observation in his Blog about Zapatero’s recent comments about terrorism:

First, he gave the lie to those wishful Americans who have suggested that Zapatero and his voters wished only to appease jihadi terrorism in Iraq while stoutly resisting jihadi terrorism everywhere else: ?Fighting terrorism with bombs, with Tomahawk missiles, isn’t the way to beat terrorism, but the way to generate more radicalism.?

Well of course there?s nobody, least of all in the Bush administration, who thinks that bombs and Tomahawks alone are right way to fight terrorism. And indeed, if the Bush administration did think that, its problems with Europe would be much less severe than they now are. The Europeans did not object very much over the dozen years that the US was bombing Iraq and periodically Tomahawking terrorist training camps Afghanistan. It was not the use of violence that frightens them, but the talk of democracy.

But leave that aside. Note only that ZAPATERO DID NOT LIMIT HIS CONDEMNATION OF “BOMBS” TO IRAQ ALONE. He was endorsing the emerging Euro leftist thesis that the very idea of fighting terrorism is an error. Romano Prodi, the chief of the European Commission, gave utterance to the new doctrine at the beginning of the week: ?"It is clear that using force is not the answer to resolving the conflict with terrorists.? NOT “FORCE ALONE.” ?Force.? …

Now, finally, please hear one more thing Zapatero said in his radio interview. ?I said during the campaign I hoped Spain and the Spaniards would be ahead of the Americans for once. First we win here, we change this government, and then the Americans will do it, if things continue as they are in Kerry’s favor.?

Isn?t this amazing? And doesn?t it cast a new light on all those Euroepan complaints about American ?arrogance? and ?unilateralism?? Has any official of the United States ever expressed a preference for one party over another in a Spanish election ? or indeed an election anywhere else in democratic Europe?<<<<<<

64

You see, as Americans, we have to be “Humane” in how we handle terrorists. But that doesn’t mean that we don’t hook them up with a nice all-inclusive trip to our buddies in Israel where they don’t give a flyin fuck about being humane to these assholes. Anyways, we ARE closing in on these pricks and are eliminating them by the thousands. They are on the run, and we won’t stop chasing them until they give up (which will never happen). Have any of you heard about the Russian theatre that was taken by Chechnyan rebels a few years ago?? Yeah, if you have, then you probably heard about how the Russians handled that situation. Spetznaz (Russian Special Forces) gassed EVERYONE, with VX gas. Civillians included. That is by far a more effective method of eliminating terrorists for the short term, but the civvies will start questioning the government. Also remember, everyone of them we kill, more of them join their cause. This situation will probably never end, and if it does, it will very likely not happen in our lifetime. But that doesn’t mean we can’t kill as many of those motherfuckers as we can!!!

65

rangertab75, you’re nuts.

…I’m still waiting for Kuri’s reply.

66

A Reflection,

When you take a mild acid and a mild base and mix them, there is a nuetralizing reaction which is slow and mild. Eventually they will become ph balanced.

When you take a strong acid and a strong base and mix them together they to will neutralize eachother to become ph balanced. This will not be a slow mild process however, it happens very fast and very violently.

Following these basic laws of the universe, when there is polarization in society, the degree of seperation determines the severity of the neutralizing process, which by the way will ALWAYS happen.

The French Revolution is a clear example of peasants getting pissed on and eventually pissed off enough that HEADS ROLLED, and balnce was found.

America is on one side of the polarization of the war on terror. Extremist islam is on the other. There will be a neutralizing force, but it will be violent as both sides are very polarized. So much to the point that the two can no longer co-exist on our planet as they are now.

The only way that this situation will neutralize itself without being very violent, is for a somewhat neutral third party to effectively pull each side closer to the middle so that a more mild neutralization may occur.

In this respect, Countries like china, russia, and india will be the real heroes of the day if they choose to be. Only neutral third party countries can bring this situation to a nonviolent end. (which in my humble opinion is not going to happen)

There is a similar polarization taking shape here within our own country and we all experience it every day. Even here on these forums it is self evident. The “left” and The “right” so to speak are going to ruin our country unless they both fade back closer to the middle instead of continuing to drift further apart. Societies simply cannot exist with such unstable factions who are so opposed of the other side.

Today our media is the catylist that is driving the wedge between us americans, they act as an authority on every aspect of our lives and shape our views of reality. This is all in the persuit of lining their pockets with green. People do not watch news unless there is some controversial topic to draw them in. The media will obviously do everything in it’s power to enhance any small controversy into a larger one so that they can keep viewers glued to the telle.

They can also be the catylist to bring us back together if they so choose, but that is not on their agenda at this point.

The X Factor

The unkown factor in all of this is the evolution of our species. The ability of individuals to rise above the slop of society and not be affected by ploys from any group of power to support their selfish cause.

This alone could throw a monkey wrench into the workings of all global and local players, who knowingly or unknowingly steal our power of individuality from us by setting pretty traps that appease our senses our egos and our humanity. All in an attempt to belong to their group, or cause thus giving them more power.

I realize I jumped around a bit here but I tried to tie each aspect of this post into the next. There is elite in every aspect of our world. To be elite in awareness is what will bring our kind to the next level of peace and prosperity. To not be duped by massive players who are only massive because we make them that way.

The terrorists have no power without the support of the masses of their populus. the greater the support they get, the more powerful they become.

Our coalition against them is only as powerful as the sum of it’s members, granted our presence alone is enourmous.

I guess I would like anyone who reads this to analyze what they support, why they support it and what the total affect they are having on the system is. Are you bringing a peacful balance to the system or are you lending your individual power to a polarizing and eventually destructive force.

Remember, the goal is for peace and prosperity for all humans, if this is not the goal than what is? If this is not the goal then are we even human? Is what you support regardless of what they claim to be trying to acheive really going towards this ultimate goal?

Be Well

67

Anyone want to take a stab at this one? It seems no one comments when someone gives a neutral view of a situation. Everyone is drooling looking for that post to come in that totally oposses them so they can jump back on the keyboard and do battle.

I am not saying this is a bad thing, but it is just what I see. I would love to hear comments on my previous post. Does anybody see the logic? Did I miss something? These are the core issues which breed all other issues we are dealing with now. Lets not talk about if we want to use a clear band-aid or a whinnie the pooh band-aid. Lets talk about sewing the leg back on, or at least getting stiches.

Let us engage in real meaningful discussion if we are going to spend our time discussing.

Later

68

Frum, a close pal of Richard Perle distorts Zapateros position judging from what else I’ve heard (no surprise there).

Zapatero has pledged to fight terrorism, but they know that bombing and invading Iraq will not, and has not positively affected the fight on terrorism.

The EU has issue some terrorism policy just today, I don’t know what it entails - but in any case they are not rolling over and giving in to the terrorists as Frum, Perle, and others in the neo-con camp would have us believe.

Has the war in Iraq yielded positive results on the fight against Al-Quaeda?

69

Looks like nobody wants to touch my earlier post. No comments of any sort? Very well. Continue to battle amongst yourselves, wage verbal and ideological war against the very people who share the same ideals and goals as you do.

I understand if some people take this as a “can’t we all just get along” type of a message. Truth be told, it basically is, only i’m not joking, i’m not trying to be funny.

When we all wake up and realize that THIS IS OUR WORLD NOW, maybe we can all unite to make the best of things instead of all trying to find chinks in eachothers armor that we so proudly wear.

Of all I would expect peoples of this forum, this breed to rise to the challenge. To take the issues of the day, cut away all the bullshit and get neck deep into it.

For now it looks like we are not ready. It looks like we are not ready to put our self image aside. after all this is an internet forum, we all have reputations to uphold.

Maybe deep down inside I wish this wasn’t called OFF TOPIC. Maybe for once I wish we would get ON TOPIC, like on to what really makes us who we are. What makes our species the most supreme beings that we know. What makes us better, what makes us Great.

For now I will let this idea die, but it will not go away forever. We will not sit idly and forget who we really are. Strength of Body is powerful. Strength of mind even more so. Strength of spirit is the supreme power that we hold, I hope we all use it wisely, if we use it at all.

Peace

70

Watch out or Adal will be jumping in on this one soon…

71

Vegita, many liberals and lefties who are incessantly bashed on this forum are trying to pull the imperialist-minded far right close to the center in exposing the current strategy as somewhat counterproductive.

Nobody on the left or center has suggested nothing should be done to fight terrorism - but I’ve heard some intelligent suggestions. Unfortunately those plans are often more involved and complicated than “blow shit up and kill motherfuckers” that predominates the knee-jerk reactionaries.

72

Kuri,

I agree that your motives are good. Again this is one of my main points. Likewise the righties have good motives wheather you believe it or not. Deep down we all want a better world.

Here is the problem. Your last post there basically said this. Liberals have a sophisticated approach that will solve the worlds problems and the conservatives just wan’t to blow stuff up and make war for money.

While you state your intentions are to pull the right closer to the middle, your statements will only drive the two sides further apart. I submit to you that you move yourself closer to the middle and hold the proverbial olive branch out to the conservatives to see if the come closer to the middle to accept it.

It is common sense that if you attack or condem a groups efforts towards what they feel is a righteous and good goal they will veiw you as opposition to those goals. You have to state very clearly and calmly that your goals are the same as theirs, that you want their help in acheiving those goals, and through intelligent discussion agree to arrive at a process to acheive those goals.

This would actually help your cause much more than you are helping it now because the other side would actually start to LISTEN to what you have to say. Provided it is rational and relevant to acheiving the common goal.

Shit right now our country is trying to pull a rope away from a given point. Half of us are pulling in one direction, the other half are pulling in the opposite direction and the fucking rope isn’t moving. If we all pull in the same direction we can pull the rope anywhere we want.

Do you follow me at all? The issue isn’t who’s side has the right ideas, the issue is that both sides have good and bad ideas, just like every person makes good and bad choices. When we can all step foward and agree to work with the other side, I mean HONESTLY try to work with the other side we will acheive whatever goals we have.

Why not start it right now with you Kuri. You were brave enough to respond to me in the first place, are you brave enough to give this a try, be the first, be bigger than both sides.

Be well

73

My dad works in Madrid. He also took those trains to work. Needless to say I was scared shitless when I found out about the bombs. Fortunately, he was getting ready for work when that shit happened, so he wasn’t there yet. These’s nothing to do but thank God for protecting my family.

74

Kuri didn’t address Frum’s specific ARGUMENTS, but instead labelled and grouped him.