I second that.
bonzo and bluey, didn’t the internment of the Japanese teach you anything?
Sonny S writes:
“HELLO, that’s the problem w/ terrorism, its not an army its a few individuals.”
Actually, it’s MANY individuals, and they do form different armies, but without uniforms.
“And terrorism will always exist,and eliminating Saddam Hussein is not going to help much.”
BECAUSE terrorism will always exist, eliminating tyrannical anti-Western regimes may help.
“Every small group of people who ever joined together to fight a larger more powerful enemy is/was a terrorist group if they ever killed someone.”
If this small group targets civilians, then it is a terrorist group.
Some small groups call places they are going to bomb and tell everybody to leave. Some groups only target soldiers in military zones. We can argue about what they are.
SteelyEyes… you rock. Kill them, then kill thier off-spring (any age). Then kill the rest of the family tree. I’m for digging up the dead terrorists and killing them again. Killing cockroaches and termites goes about the same way.
Fishdog
What a well thought out statement.
‘Maybe now the people of Europe will see that this isn’t just an American war.’
Yeah well in Britain we’ve been living with terrorism for the last 30 years.
Creed, did you read the clipping from “Le Monde” I posted above?
And did you see Tony Blair’s recent big speech?
NBC News just pointed out that this attack in Spain came exactly 911 days after 9/11. No idea if that’s accurate or not, but pretty interesting anyway.
didn’t the internment of the Japanese teach you anything?
Yes there was a lot less myopia 50 years ago let alone 500 years ago.
Who said anything about internment? Just ask them to settle their affair and leave. In the mean time charge them a head tax to quicken their departure. This is similar to the Islamic idea of charging all non-Muslims in Islamic lands a head tax (i.e. The Jizyah Tax).
I second that which creed has already stated.
Believe it or not there was terrorism before 9/11 in Europe,its just that it was sadly romanticised as the Irish struggle for independence against the evil English Government.
Short history lesson,
In 1969 the Catholic community in Northern Ireland were under attack from the Protestants,who made up the majority of the country.
In order to cease the violence British troops were sent to Northern Ireland to keep the peace.
For the first twelve months they were welcomed by the Catholic community,but things soon changed.
The British public then had to put up with 30yrs of randomn bombings(aimed at civilian targets).
The “struggle” included killing 10 Christmas shoppers in the 1984 Harrods explosion.
22 People on a Sat night out in the Bham Pub bomb in both the Tavern of the town and the Mulberry Bush pubs.
Two 10yr old boys killed in Warrington by an explosive device activated in a busy shopping centre.
I could go on and on re the atrocities carried out on the mainland by the IRA,but I shall say this, regardless of what Blair may say,and what NBC chooses to report to the American public Terrorism has long been a part of life in mainland Europe.
So you’re saying this train bombing was the work of the IRA then?
Zippy & Creed, my point was that both “Le Monde” and Blair are defining what we saw on 9-11 and in Madrid as terrorism on a massive scale of destruction, and that it shows fanaticism has declared war on Western civilization. They conclude we can’t reason with them, if they glory in the kind of carnage we’re seeing.
Le Monde concludes with typically French coinage, “If she did not know it yet, she knows it now: Europe is part of the battlefield of hyper-terrorism.”
From Andrewsullivan.com:
"BIN LADEN’S VICTORY IN SPAIN: It’s a spectacular result for Islamist terrorism, and a chilling portent of Europe’s future. A close election campaign, with Aznar’s party slightly ahead, ended with the Popular Party’s defeat and the socialist opposition winning. It might be argued that the Aznar government’s dogged refusal to admit the obvious quickly enough led people to blame it for a cover-up. But why did they seek to delay assigning the blame on al Qaeda? Because they knew that if al Qaeda were seen to be responsible, the Spanish public would blame Aznar not bin Laden! But there’s the real ironic twist: if the appeasement brigade really do believe that the war to depose Saddam is and was utterly unconnected with the war against al Qaeda, then why on earth would al Qaeda respond by targeting Spain? If the two issues are completely unrelated, why has al Qaeda made the connection? The answer is obvious: the removal of the Taliban and the Saddam dictatorship were two major blows to the cause of Islamist terror. They removed an al Qaeda client state and a potential harbor for terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. So it’s vital that the Islamist mass murderers target those who backed both wars. It makes total sense. And in yesterday’s election victory for the socialists, al Qaeda got even more than it could have dreamed of. It has removed a government intent on fighting terrorism and installed another intent on appeasing it. For good measure, they murdered a couple of hundred infidels. But the truly scary thought is the signal that this will send to other European governments. Britain is obviously next. The appeasement temptation has never been greater; and it looks more likely now that Europe - as so very often in the past - will take the path of least resistance - with far greater bloodshed as a result. I’d also say that it increases the likelihood of a major bloodbath in this country before the November elections. If it worked in Spain, al Qaeda might surmise, why not try it in the U.S.?
GREATER ISLAM: But there’s another obvious reason for the targeting of Spain. It was once in part a Muslim-controlled country. …"
Brian
I agree with your points, I was merely pointing out to fishdog that terrorism didn’t start on 9/11 and has been around for a long time, at least outside the US. I get annoyed with the blinkered view of some Americans who do not know the world exists outside the US.
Unfortunately as I am sure you would have seen the spanish have actually turned against their own government in the general elections and blame spanish involvement in the war on terrorism for the bombing of madrid. Jose Luis Rodriguez Zapatero, the new prime-minister has said he will pull out spains 1300 troops in Iraq if nothing significant happens by June 30.
In my view this is akin to an ostrich sticking its head in the sand and sadly shows the major differences in attitude of the peoples of europe and america to terrorism, except for the british as we have been dealing with this problem for a long time.
Yes, Creed, what has happened Spain is absolutely tragic. It has practically “surrendered” to terrorists. Since their fanatical minds turn the smallest events into victories, which become part of their propaganda, the Spanish government has committed a major mistake that will yield future violence toward the West for years to come.
Creed/Zippy,
You are right about the majority of Americans thinking 9-11 was the only important terrorist attack in history. It is a major oversight for many people in my country. However, I am aware that Britain has been plagued by terrorist bombings for years. I also know many other countries have suffered similar attacks in the past. I’m not saying that everyone should love the US because we recently were attacked. I was only stating my opinion that any form of terrorism is despicable and all nations should work together to eliminate it. I feel very strongly about this topic, and that caused the heat in my last post. My apologies to anyone who took offense.
creed,
Excellent post, I could not agree more with it!
So Spain has surrendered to terrorists huh? what BULLSHIT!!
80-90% of the Spanish population was against going into Iraq (which has NOTHING to do with Al-Quaida as any intelligent person should have been able to figure out by now).
B. Smith- don’t tell me you and Cheney are the only ones who still believe the Iraq-Osama connection?
The Aznar gvmt. manipulated information regarding the bombing, were arrogant, and did not represent the people’s will (stop me when this sounds REAL close to home) - and thus got their asses voted out.
A real war on terrorism would focus Pakistan, S.A., and Yemen.
Kuri, the Spanish people came out to vote for the Socialists because they felt that their participation in Iraq made them a target. Read ANY news story on the polls.
The Islamist’s tape announced that Spain was being targeted because of Iraq AND Afghanistan.
So (1) terrorists DO care about the international community trying to clean up a corrupt secular Arab regime. And (2), the Spanish people have now become appeasers of terrorism because they didn’t want to realize Afghanistan ALSO made them a target in the eyes of these fanatics.
(Your last post makes you sound like you glory in the Spanish populace genuflecting to Islamofascism. Good job.)
And Kuri, when the Red Cross was bombed in Iraq, the governments that at the time were about to send in troops to help Iraqi reconstruction (Japan, Italy, and I forgot who else) were incensed that this human filth thought they would bow to terrorism, that terrorism would prevent the world community from assisting the development of Iraq into a free and peaceful nation. For you to try to conceptualize this election in a way that depicts the Spaniards as not giving in to terrorists is ridiculous.
Kuri,
Your last post was despicable. Tell me one instance in history where appeasement actually worked? If you can, I’ll tell you far more instances where it led to brutal (and avoidable conflict).
Mark my words: The Spanish are making a grave error. If you wanted to pull out the troops for political reasons AT LEAST WAIT FOR SIX OR SEVEN MONTHS TO MAKE IT APPEAR THAT YOUR ACTION HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE TERRORIST ATTACK. Now it is a virtual cause and effect.
Look for our other allies to be targeted. God protect them. God grant them the will to keep up the fight now that we are in a very difficult phase.
By the way, did you guys see the weapons of mass destruction that were on display today? This came from the country of a brutual dictator who supported terrorism. There were all sorts of nuclear parts from Libya. Our sacrifices in Iraq have begun to bear some serious fruit.
Anyone care to argue with me that our show of steadfast purpose in Iraq led directly to the relinquishing of wmd’s by Qadafi or the willingness of Kim Jong Il to come to the bargaining table? (Oh Please, Please, Please)
I won’t argue that point. Even my mule (now sadly deceased) knew what a big stick meant. You didn’t have to use it but if you didn’t pick it up he’d do whatever he pleased.
Just look at the pre-invasion return of the inspectors to Iraq. What do you suppose motivated Saddam to allow them back? It sure as hell wasn’t a bunch of suits yapping at the UN, it was troops massing on his border.
Why did Quadaffi change his tune? He figured he may or may not be next but he was on the list. Diplomacy is cool but sometimes you have to back up what you say to maintain credibility. The UN forgot that a long time ago if they ever knew it in the first place.