They seem to have lots of money and a couple of good lawyers, as they take legal action agianst anyone who speaks out about them. The money prevailing more so than the truth.
I also can’t see many intelligent people sticking around believing they can move objects with their mind as Tom is alleged to be able to do. Maybe he should have used his special powers to stop that guy from spraying him in the face with the water pistol…
[quote]spamme wrote:
Could you post a reference for your statement that they are the intellectual elite. Or are you referring to the actors with the high school educations.
Worldwide there are an estimated 500,000 practicing scientologists. See reference:
So you are starting out with about 50,000 idiots in the USA. Now read several of the sites that have been critical of scientology (google scientology). You can read many testimonials of ex-scientologists, and they all have something in common, they sound like idiots out of a bad B movie. They also list the ~40 “famous people”, the majority of whom have only a high school education.
I have no doubt there are a few intelligent people with mental issues in it, but by and large the ones I have seen, including the actors, are poorly educated or idiots or both.
Now lets have your list of all those brilliant intellectuals that are in scientology.
[/quote]
I won’t respond to the intellectual claim as I didn’t make it, although I understand what he meant.
I just want to say that so far you have called these former and present Scientologists crooks and idiots. The crook remark was total BS you made up out of thin air, as they are the ones getting ripped off. The folks that run the church, well that’s another story.
Then you talk about how you read some remarks on the internet and that you learned that all these folks are basically stupid. That’s cute, and it must make you feel superior to denigrate all these people.
I’m telling you that for the most part the people who get caught up in Scientology are not idiots or crooks, they are regular people who think they have found something useful to help them with their problems. The overwhelming majority leave, most sooner rather than later.
For sure most of these folks are embarassed about their prior involvement, and some of them have serious problems dealing with things after they get out. And one of the main problems they have is dealing with guys like you that want to write them off as total losers who are too stupid to live. Not good for the old self esteem if you know what I mean.
Basically you are just like Tom Cruise spouting off about drugs, neither one of you really know what the hell you are talking about but still feel the need to act like an expert.
[quote]brushga wrote:
spamme wrote:
Could you post a reference for your statement that they are the intellectual elite. Or are you referring to the actors with the high school educations.
Worldwide there are an estimated 500,000 practicing scientologists. See reference:
So you are starting out with about 50,000 idiots in the USA. Now read several of the sites that have been critical of scientology (google scientology). You can read many testimonials of ex-scientologists, and they all have something in common, they sound like idiots out of a bad B movie. They also list the ~40 “famous people”, the majority of whom have only a high school education.
I have no doubt there are a few intelligent people with mental issues in it, but by and large the ones I have seen, including the actors, are poorly educated or idiots or both.
Now lets have your list of all those brilliant intellectuals that are in scientology.
I won’t respond to the intellectual claim as I didn’t make it, although I understand what he meant.
I just want to say that so far you have called these former and present Scientologists crooks and idiots. The crook remark was total BS you made up out of thin air, as they are the ones getting ripped off. The folks that run the church, well that’s another story.
Then you talk about how you read some remarks on the internet and that you learned that all these folks are basically stupid. That’s cute, and it must make you feel superior to denigrate all these people.
I’m telling you that for the most part the people who get caught up in Scientology are not idiots or crooks, they are regular people who think they have found something useful to help them with their problems. The overwhelming majority leave, most sooner rather than later.
For sure most of these folks are embarassed about their prior involvement, and some of them have serious problems dealing with things after they get out. And one of the main problems they have is dealing with guys like you that want to write them off as total losers who are too stupid to live. Not good for the old self esteem if you know what I mean.
Basically you are just like Tom Cruise spouting off about drugs, neither one of you really know what the hell you are talking about but still feel the need to act like an expert.
[/quote]
I guess you are an expert in scientology then? Are you an offended former member?
Sorry, but anyone who can believe even the introductory psychobabble that is readily available on their website, in my opinion, is not very bright. Does that make me an expert, no. Does it make me intellectually superior, no. But the original arguement was that these people were by and large intelligent, and I have seen no evidence of that.
But there are nearly 300 million people in the USA, and only about 50K are practicing Scientology. And I am still awaiting proof that those 50K are the intellectuals. So where are you getting your “expert” information from. I have heard insults, and about one person you know. What are you basing your information on, and why is it more accurate than what I can read from news stories on the net?
[quote]spamme wrote:
brushga wrote:
spamme wrote:
Could you post a reference for your statement that they are the intellectual elite. Or are you referring to the actors with the high school educations.
Worldwide there are an estimated 500,000 practicing scientologists. See reference:
So you are starting out with about 50,000 idiots in the USA. Now read several of the sites that have been critical of scientology (google scientology). You can read many testimonials of ex-scientologists, and they all have something in common, they sound like idiots out of a bad B movie. They also list the ~40 “famous people”, the majority of whom have only a high school education.
I have no doubt there are a few intelligent people with mental issues in it, but by and large the ones I have seen, including the actors, are poorly educated or idiots or both.
Now lets have your list of all those brilliant intellectuals that are in scientology.
I won’t respond to the intellectual claim as I didn’t make it, although I understand what he meant.
I just want to say that so far you have called these former and present Scientologists crooks and idiots. The crook remark was total BS you made up out of thin air, as they are the ones getting ripped off. The folks that run the church, well that’s another story.
Then you talk about how you read some remarks on the internet and that you learned that all these folks are basically stupid. That’s cute, and it must make you feel superior to denigrate all these people.
I’m telling you that for the most part the people who get caught up in Scientology are not idiots or crooks, they are regular people who think they have found something useful to help them with their problems. The overwhelming majority leave, most sooner rather than later.
For sure most of these folks are embarassed about their prior involvement, and some of them have serious problems dealing with things after they get out. And one of the main problems they have is dealing with guys like you that want to write them off as total losers who are too stupid to live. Not good for the old self esteem if you know what I mean.
Basically you are just like Tom Cruise spouting off about drugs, neither one of you really know what the hell you are talking about but still feel the need to act like an expert.
I guess you are an expert in scientology then? Are you an offended former member?
Sorry, but anyone who can believe even the introductory psychobabble that is readily available on their website, in my opinion, is not very bright. Does that make me an expert, no. Does it make me intellectually superior, no. But the original arguement was that these people were by and large intelligent, and I have seen no evidence of that.
But there are nearly 300 million people in the USA, and only about 50K are practicing Scientology. And I am still awaiting proof that those 50K are the intellectuals. So where are you getting your “expert” information from. I have heard insults, and about one person you know. What are you basing your information on, and why is it more accurate than what I can read from news stories on the net?[/quote]
As I have stated before I have had family that were in Scientology, including a cousin who I am very close with. I spent alot of time researching it while he was involved because I was worried, and then talking with him after he left it.
During that time I met a few Scientologists and ex-Scientologists, and talked with them. A couple I got pretty close with as I tried to help my cousin. Needless to say, my cousin and I have spent many hours discussing it, and I have learned alot from his experiences. The people I have met reflect the general spectrum of humanity, some smart, some not so smart. They are not all idiots.
My cousin actually worked in the church at its home base in FLA where folks went to get the more advanced and expensive auditing, and he said that there were many well to do people getting “services” there. Not only that, his father, a wealthy man with a college degree, went on the cruises that Scientology offers where he and many other wealthy people spent top dollar for “services”. My uncle talked about it quite extensively after he left the church.
For the record I think Scientology is a crock of shit, and I wish L. Ron Hubbard had stuck to writing Sci-Fi novels. But I get ticked off when some know-it-all who read a couple of articles on the internet starts disparaging a whole group of people that he knows nothing about.
I didn’t make the “intellectual” comment, so I don’t have to defend it. But I am telling you that in order for Scientology to survive it has to find people to pay for their product. POOR PEOPLE DON’T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THIS! So they target folks who do. Sorry, that’s just the way it is. You can go on believing it’s membership is made up of nothing but high school dropout mouth breathers, but that doesn’t make it so.
And for the record, you made the accusation that the only educated people in the church were probably crooks trying to make money, which is exactly opposite of the truth. The church stays in business by gouging their wealthy members for donations and “services”. So if you are so completely wrong on that simple point, then why the hell are you so confident in any other point you are making?
[quote]brushga wrote:
spamme wrote:
brushga wrote:
spamme wrote:
Could you post a reference for your statement that they are the intellectual elite. Or are you referring to the actors with the high school educations.
Worldwide there are an estimated 500,000 practicing scientologists. See reference:
So you are starting out with about 50,000 idiots in the USA. Now read several of the sites that have been critical of scientology (google scientology). You can read many testimonials of ex-scientologists, and they all have something in common, they sound like idiots out of a bad B movie. They also list the ~40 “famous people”, the majority of whom have only a high school education.
I have no doubt there are a few intelligent people with mental issues in it, but by and large the ones I have seen, including the actors, are poorly educated or idiots or both.
Now lets have your list of all those brilliant intellectuals that are in scientology.
I won’t respond to the intellectual claim as I didn’t make it, although I understand what he meant.
I just want to say that so far you have called these former and present Scientologists crooks and idiots. The crook remark was total BS you made up out of thin air, as they are the ones getting ripped off. The folks that run the church, well that’s another story.
Then you talk about how you read some remarks on the internet and that you learned that all these folks are basically stupid. That’s cute, and it must make you feel superior to denigrate all these people.
I’m telling you that for the most part the people who get caught up in Scientology are not idiots or crooks, they are regular people who think they have found something useful to help them with their problems. The overwhelming majority leave, most sooner rather than later.
For sure most of these folks are embarassed about their prior involvement, and some of them have serious problems dealing with things after they get out. And one of the main problems they have is dealing with guys like you that want to write them off as total losers who are too stupid to live. Not good for the old self esteem if you know what I mean.
Basically you are just like Tom Cruise spouting off about drugs, neither one of you really know what the hell you are talking about but still feel the need to act like an expert.
I guess you are an expert in scientology then? Are you an offended former member?
Sorry, but anyone who can believe even the introductory psychobabble that is readily available on their website, in my opinion, is not very bright. Does that make me an expert, no. Does it make me intellectually superior, no. But the original arguement was that these people were by and large intelligent, and I have seen no evidence of that.
But there are nearly 300 million people in the USA, and only about 50K are practicing Scientology. And I am still awaiting proof that those 50K are the intellectuals. So where are you getting your “expert” information from. I have heard insults, and about one person you know. What are you basing your information on, and why is it more accurate than what I can read from news stories on the net?
As I have stated before I have had family that were in Scientology, including a cousin who I am very close with. I spent alot of time researching it while he was involved because I was worried, and then talking with him after he left it.
During that time I met a few Scientologists and ex-Scientologists, and talked with them. A couple I got pretty close with as I tried to help my cousin. Needless to say, my cousin and I have spent many hours discussing it, and I have learned alot from his experiences. The people I have met reflect the general spectrum of humanity, some smart, some not so smart. They are not all idiots.
My cousin actually worked in the church at its home base in FLA where folks went to get the more advanced and expensive auditing, and he said that there were many well to do people getting “services” there. Not only that, his father, a wealthy man with a college degree, went on the cruises that Scientology offers where he and many other wealthy people spent top dollar for “services”. My uncle talked about it quite extensively after he left the church.
For the record I think Scientology is a crock of shit, and I wish L. Ron Hubbard had stuck to writing Sci-Fi novels. But I get ticked off when some know-it-all who read a couple of articles on the internet starts disparaging a whole group of people that he knows nothing about.
I didn’t make the “intellectual” comment, so I don’t have to defend it. But I am telling you that in order for Scientology to survive it has to find people to pay for their product. POOR PEOPLE DON’T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THIS! So they target folks who do. Sorry, that’s just the way it is. You can go on believing it’s membership is made up of nothing but high school dropout mouth breathers, but that doesn’t make it so.
And for the record, you made the accusation that the only educated people in the church were probably crooks trying to make money, which is exactly opposite of the truth. The church stays in business by gouging their wealthy members for donations and “services”. So if you are so completely wrong on that simple point, then why the hell are you so confident in any other point you are making? [/quote]
Because you have nothing other than one experience and your opinion to back up your view point. And again, my response was to contradict the two assertations of it being primary intellectuals, and you are taking my comment out of context, but that is the typical way of arguing on here.
So you keep on thinking these people are intelligent who fork over 50K to con artists that spew nonsense and are led by an individual that even once stated, “the way to make money is to start your own religion”, and I will keep thinking they are not so bright.
[quote]spamme wrote:
brushga wrote:
spamme wrote:
brushga wrote:
spamme wrote:
Could you post a reference for your statement that they are the intellectual elite. Or are you referring to the actors with the high school educations.
Worldwide there are an estimated 500,000 practicing scientologists. See reference:
So you are starting out with about 50,000 idiots in the USA. Now read several of the sites that have been critical of scientology (google scientology). You can read many testimonials of ex-scientologists, and they all have something in common, they sound like idiots out of a bad B movie. They also list the ~40 “famous people”, the majority of whom have only a high school education.
I have no doubt there are a few intelligent people with mental issues in it, but by and large the ones I have seen, including the actors, are poorly educated or idiots or both.
Now lets have your list of all those brilliant intellectuals that are in scientology.
I won’t respond to the intellectual claim as I didn’t make it, although I understand what he meant.
I just want to say that so far you have called these former and present Scientologists crooks and idiots. The crook remark was total BS you made up out of thin air, as they are the ones getting ripped off. The folks that run the church, well that’s another story.
Then you talk about how you read some remarks on the internet and that you learned that all these folks are basically stupid. That’s cute, and it must make you feel superior to denigrate all these people.
I’m telling you that for the most part the people who get caught up in Scientology are not idiots or crooks, they are regular people who think they have found something useful to help them with their problems. The overwhelming majority leave, most sooner rather than later.
For sure most of these folks are embarassed about their prior involvement, and some of them have serious problems dealing with things after they get out. And one of the main problems they have is dealing with guys like you that want to write them off as total losers who are too stupid to live. Not good for the old self esteem if you know what I mean.
Basically you are just like Tom Cruise spouting off about drugs, neither one of you really know what the hell you are talking about but still feel the need to act like an expert.
I guess you are an expert in scientology then? Are you an offended former member?
Sorry, but anyone who can believe even the introductory psychobabble that is readily available on their website, in my opinion, is not very bright. Does that make me an expert, no. Does it make me intellectually superior, no. But the original arguement was that these people were by and large intelligent, and I have seen no evidence of that.
But there are nearly 300 million people in the USA, and only about 50K are practicing Scientology. And I am still awaiting proof that those 50K are the intellectuals. So where are you getting your “expert” information from. I have heard insults, and about one person you know. What are you basing your information on, and why is it more accurate than what I can read from news stories on the net?
As I have stated before I have had family that were in Scientology, including a cousin who I am very close with. I spent alot of time researching it while he was involved because I was worried, and then talking with him after he left it.
During that time I met a few Scientologists and ex-Scientologists, and talked with them. A couple I got pretty close with as I tried to help my cousin. Needless to say, my cousin and I have spent many hours discussing it, and I have learned alot from his experiences. The people I have met reflect the general spectrum of humanity, some smart, some not so smart. They are not all idiots.
My cousin actually worked in the church at its home base in FLA where folks went to get the more advanced and expensive auditing, and he said that there were many well to do people getting “services” there. Not only that, his father, a wealthy man with a college degree, went on the cruises that Scientology offers where he and many other wealthy people spent top dollar for “services”. My uncle talked about it quite extensively after he left the church.
For the record I think Scientology is a crock of shit, and I wish L. Ron Hubbard had stuck to writing Sci-Fi novels. But I get ticked off when some know-it-all who read a couple of articles on the internet starts disparaging a whole group of people that he knows nothing about.
I didn’t make the “intellectual” comment, so I don’t have to defend it. But I am telling you that in order for Scientology to survive it has to find people to pay for their product. POOR PEOPLE DON’T HAVE THE MONEY TO DO THIS! So they target folks who do. Sorry, that’s just the way it is. You can go on believing it’s membership is made up of nothing but high school dropout mouth breathers, but that doesn’t make it so.
And for the record, you made the accusation that the only educated people in the church were probably crooks trying to make money, which is exactly opposite of the truth. The church stays in business by gouging their wealthy members for donations and “services”. So if you are so completely wrong on that simple point, then why the hell are you so confident in any other point you are making?
Because you have nothing other than one experience and your opinion to back up your view point. And again, my response was to contradict the two assertations of it being primary intellectuals, and you are taking my comment out of context, but that is the typical way of arguing on here.
So you keep on thinking these people are intelligent who fork over 50K to con artists that spew nonsense and are led by an individual that even once stated, “the way to make money is to start your own religion”, and I will keep thinking they are not so bright.[/quote]
You have a reading comprehension problem, I have talked to more people than just my cousin. I specifically mentioned the experiences of my uncle, and that I had talked with other active and ex-Scientologists. And I can guarantee that I have read more about this topic than you have, and spent more time arguing with people about how BS Scientology really is.
You have some pre-conceived notions and a Wikipedia entry.
You go on thinking that every thing is black and white and that people can’t screw up without being mentally defective. And if you’re going to make bogus claims about something you know nothing about and can’t back up, don’t whine about being taken out of context.
[quote]brushga wrote:
You have a reading comprehension problem, I have talked to more people than just my cousin. I specifically mentioned the experiences of my uncle, and that I had talked with other active and ex-Scientologists. And I can guarantee that I have read more about this topic than you have, and spent more time arguing with people about how BS Scientology really is.
You have some pre-conceived notions and a Wikipedia entry.
You go on thinking that every thing is black and white and that people can’t screw up without being mentally defective. And if you’re going to make bogus claims about something you know nothing about and can’t back up, don’t whine about being taken out of context.
[/quote]
I can read just fine. Out of 50K scientology members, you have spoken to a few, assuming even that is true.
And you felt these people (who believe all this unbelievable nonsense) were intelligent, and hence you are defending those that proclaimed most are “intellectuals.”
Which leads me to believe that my definition of intelligence varies considerably from yours.
[quote]hankr wrote:
Hey, you know what’s funny?
Christians picking on Scientologists.
“My ghost in the sky makes sense, cause he’s been around longer. Your ghost in the sky is totally bogus.”
Actually, all religions are crap, except for the Flying Spaghetti Monster, bless his noodly appendages.
[/quote]
But honestly, can you find another “religion” that is as entertaining as scientology. Below is a summary from xenu site.
"Scientology assumes that spirituality and thought (called “theta”) is an energy existing in its own universe, separate and distinct from the physical universe of Matter, Energy, Space and Time (MEST), and that spirit (theta) is senior to, and indeed created, the physical universe (MEST).
Each individual person (called a “thetan”) is considered to be a “thought unit” of the spiritual universe which interacts with the physical universe (MEST), usually by inhabiting a human body.
Scientology proposes that in its “native state” the spirit/thetan is immortal and god-like and possesses the potentiality of knowing everything, but that in present time its true capabilities have been lost and forgotten. As an immortal entity, the spirit/thetan lives on after body death and is born into a new physical body, again and again, lifetime after lifetime, in an endless cycle of birth and death. As a result of traumatic incidents extending back from the present life through a long series of “past lifetimes” hidden from conscious memory, the spirit/thetan has become trapped in the physical body and the physical/MEST universe.
Content of these traumatic incidents may influence a person’s current life, causing physical and mental illnesses, irrational thoughts and acting-out behavior, and limiting one’s creativity and other abilities. Scientology claims that these traumatic incidents, along with each spirit/thetan’s personal history, are recorded in complete detail on the “time track,” sometimes called the “whole track,” which for each person is many trillions of years in length. Scientology proposes that through a process called “auditing” that uses techniques developed by Hubbard (often assisted by a device called the E-Meter), an individual can be guided to find and “discharge” these hidden traumas, thus escaping the suffering and limitations imposed by the past.
Further, as one progresses through a series of auditing “levels,” one can eventually be restored to native state and can attain the status of “operating thetan,” wherein one is free of attachments to the body and, even while “exterior” to (outside) the body, one can consciously control matter, energy, space, time, thought, and life. Hubbard’s writings and lectures include many tantalizing details of the god-like abilities that may be gained through auditing.
For most individual Scientologists, recovering these god-like abilities (and encouraging and assisting others to do so as well) is the primary goal of participation in Scientology.
The “levels” through which a participant progresses make up what is called “The Bridge to Total Freedom.” Progress through all the levels of the “Bridge” often takes many years of dedicated study and practice, and the cost in fees for services for the Bridge is currently estimated at approximately $300,000 - $500,000 in US dollars. "
And when you have reached a certain level, you are rewarded with the big secret:
"While many of the traumatic incidents addressed in auditing are unique to the individual, some key incidents are thought to be common to all humans on planet earth. One very important such incident supposedly occurred some 75 million years ago. That is when the Xenu strapped a bunch of aliens to a volcano and blew them up with an H bomb, and caused all those aliens to possess the humans. All you have to do is learn how to release these aliens and become a superhuman god.
Does it really get any better than that? Come with me (well actually PAY me a half a million dollars), and you won’t need to pray to a God, I will show you how to become a God.
You seem to be hung up on my comment about ‘intellectuals’ so I’ll try to clear this up and prevent the anurism that seems to be looming. You made the claim that most Scientologists are morons and must not be very well educated. My comments were meant to imply that education does not equal intellegence and that often those who think of themselves as part of the ‘intellectual elite’ are just as ignorant and susceptable to a scam as the next person. Scientology does have a lot of Lawyers and Doctors and other professionals as members and representatives to the public. Hell they own a sizable chunk of Clearwater, and have complete control over at least one hospital in the area.
I touched briefly on the subject but I’ll go over it again, Scientology starts out making sense. Dianetics sounds like a good idea, good enough that Jung persued the concept for some time in his early years. The intial process of the personality testing and then the auditing sessions does a couple of things, first, it lays the ground work for more intense brainwashing techniques that are implimented at OT IV and above, second it gets all of your darkest secrets on tape, recorded for Scientologies files, while you’re hooked up to a lie detector to verify the things you’re saying. As part of the auditing process you grip the handles of the e-meter which is essentially a primitive lie detector, and you confess your sins so to speak, you’re encouraged to tell the auditor every negative thought you’ve ever had, no matter how bad it might be, in fact the worst ones should come out first.
Think about the power that has over people, their deepest, darkest secrets, in a file with recordings and pseudo scientific confirmation of their validity. Even when people do leave, they’re often blackmailed into quiessence. The public exposure of the ‘Xenu incident’ is relatively new information to the general public, yes, the information is redily available online but even as recently as 10 years ago it was difficult to find this info and Scientology took great pains to shut down the few sources of information that were available.
Anyone joining NOW, yes, I’d consider their mental capacity suspect, but for those who were involved before the sci-fi shit became common knowledge, they didn’t know. It looks, on the surface, like a viable alternative.
Personally, I think all religions are bunk but I recognize that some are more destructive than others. Scientology poses a direct and tangible threat to people who get involved with their organization or cross it’s path.
I base my assumptions about the intellegence of people who’ve been Scientologists on dozens of witnesses involved in the wrongful death suit filed against them on behelf of Lisa McPherson, a good friend of mine was heavily involved with the lawfirm handling the case and we talked about this subject quite a bit, it was actually, my introdcution to what Scientology really was, prior to that point I dismissed the way I do all other religions.
[quote]spamme wrote:
I can read just fine. Out of 50K scientology members, you have spoken to a few, assuming even that is true.
And you felt these people (who believe all this unbelievable nonsense) were intelligent, and hence you are defending those that proclaimed most are “intellectuals.”
Which leads me to believe that my definition of intelligence varies considerably from yours.[/quote]
I didn’t make the intellectual comment, I’m not defending it, so for you to constantly come back with that is pointless.
What I did say is that there are quite a few people in Scientology who are well educated. I don’t know why this is hard for you to accept. The well educated, dare I say, THE INTELLIGENT, screw up from time to time. Just because you wouldn’t make the same mistake doesn’t mean only stupid people do. As I have repeatedly said, these people, both current and former members, are not mentally defective. They resemble any normal cross section of people, some smart, some not so smart. I also pointed out that it’s likely the majority of members are middle to lower class, but I am sure you glossed right over that.
All the space opera crap is not presented to these people when they first get involved. Most of them think they are getting involved in a self help program or something. They don’t get the Xenu nuked the thetans in the volcano spiel at the beginning. That comes much later, after they have been softened up and indoctrinated.
That’s one reason why the South Park episode is so great, it gets the word out to people who might otherwise not know what they are getting involved in when they take a Dianetics seminar. An ounce of prevention type of thing.
And your 50,000 member number does not include all the people who have left over the years, or only had a passing involvement with it, that number is much larger. Scientology has an incredibly high churn rate, which is why they are so marketing driven. It also excludes the global tally, as Scientology has spread pretty much all over the world. Lots of wealthy Scientologists in other countries come to Clearwater, FL for more advanced “services” that can only be delivered there. They may be idiots, but they’ve done well enough to be able to take time off to spend weeks at a time in the U.S.
And finally, for you to doubt my veracity is precious. Like I just decided to make up a story about having family members involved in Scientology so I could argue with you about it on the internet. I’m not happy that I know so much about this topic, I certainly would have preferred to remain ignorant to the whole damn thing. That’s a sentiment my cousin shares about 100 times more strongly.
I’m just trying to spread the word that Scientology can seduce people across the intellectual spectrum. You just want to call them all idiots and be done with it. It’s just not that simple, but believe what you want, I’m done with you.
[quote]Xvim wrote:
You seem to be hung up on my comment about ‘intellectuals’ so I’ll try to clear this up and prevent the anurism that seems to be looming. You made the claim that most Scientologists are morons and must not be very well educated. My comments were meant to imply that education does not equal intellegence and that often those who think of themselves as part of the ‘intellectual elite’ are just as ignorant and susceptable to a scam as the next person. Scientology does have a lot of Lawyers and Doctors and other professionals as members and representatives to the public. Hell they own a sizable chunk of Clearwater, and have complete control over at least one hospital in the area.
I touched briefly on the subject but I’ll go over it again, Scientology starts out making sense. Dianetics sounds like a good idea, good enough that Jung persued the concept for some time in his early years. The intial process of the personality testing and then the auditing sessions does a couple of things, first, it lays the ground work for more intense brainwashing techniques that are implimented at OT IV and above, second it gets all of your darkest secrets on tape, recorded for Scientologies files, while you’re hooked up to a lie detector to verify the things you’re saying. As part of the auditing process you grip the handles of the e-meter which is essentially a primitive lie detector, and you confess your sins so to speak, you’re encouraged to tell the auditor every negative thought you’ve ever had, no matter how bad it might be, in fact the worst ones should come out first.
Think about the power that has over people, their deepest, darkest secrets, in a file with recordings and pseudo scientific confirmation of their validity. Even when people do leave, they’re often blackmailed into quiessence. The public exposure of the ‘Xenu incident’ is relatively new information to the general public, yes, the information is redily available online but even as recently as 10 years ago it was difficult to find this info and Scientology took great pains to shut down the few sources of information that were available.
Anyone joining NOW, yes, I’d consider their mental capacity suspect, but for those who were involved before the sci-fi shit became common knowledge, they didn’t know. It looks, on the surface, like a viable alternative.
Personally, I think all religions are bunk but I recognize that some are more destructive than others. Scientology poses a direct and tangible threat to people who get involved with their organization or cross it’s path.
I base my assumptions about the intellegence of people who’ve been Scientologists on dozens of witnesses involved in the wrongful death suit filed against them on behelf of Lisa McPherson, a good friend of mine was heavily involved with the lawfirm handling the case and we talked about this subject quite a bit, it was actually, my introdcution to what Scientology really was, prior to that point I dismissed the way I do all other religions.[/quote]
Once again, nicely put and I agree 100%. Although it would have been better if you had written this a few hours ago so I wouldn’t have to deal with spamme’s obsessing over it. I doubt you’ll sway him, but for the rest of the folks out there I hope they consider your points.
It’s all about getting the word out. The more South Park incidents there are the more people will not make the mistake of going to a seemingly innocuous Dianetics seminar.
Interesting stuff about Lisa McPherson. That’s a story that needs more pub.
[quote]chinadoll wrote:
Tom Cruise was excellent in Taps, Risky Business and Jerry Maguire. After Jerry Maguire, WHAT HAPPENED??!! POOF! he turned Goofy. Just like that. It’s like Abracadabra, Tom, you’re now a Banana. One day, all his manliness disappeared, just like that. POOF it’s gone.
It happened around the time he dumped Nicole Kidman, so I thought maybe he had his first gay experience and he’s gay, hence the sudden Metrosexuality. And giving any kind of postpartum advice without being an Obstetrician, that is NOT the manly guy thing to do. That’s like a guy giving advice about which shoes and handbag to wear with a red dress, or which sanitary pad to wear on day #3-- with or without wings, extra absorbent, etc… Big No-No!!!
But then he hooked up with Katie Holmes, someone with 1/100th the hotness factor of Nicole Kidman, making him even more unlikeable and even less manly apprearing (and making him look even more stupid). Made me think even moreso that he was gay and she’s his cover…but then we found out she’s pregnant, so there goes that theory.
I think Tom would have been more likeable if he had come out of the closet saying he was gay rather than hooking up with Katie Holmes, who has got to be a foot taller than him with teeth 1/2 the size of his teeth. Her small little teeth make me cringe, by the way…eek. Small guy with big teeth hooks up with big girl with little tiny teeth. Just doesn’t jive…I can’t in all creation imagine them kissing.
TOM, why the hell didn’t you just have a fooken midlife crisis like the rest of the guys and hook up with some slut or a string of sluts, we’d-a still loved you today if that were the case!???!
Where’s the horny Tom running around in his undies partying with hookers and beer? Where’s the Tom shooting guns? Where’s the arrogant, womanizing Tom?
Whatever happened to Tom Cruise? TOM, WHERE DID YOUR MANHOOD GO???[/quote]
Great point. His movies were some of the best before 1998 then they started turning weird and so did he. Thats about the time he started preaching all this scientology shit. Scientology is the downfall of Tom Cruise’s career. Tom if your reading this(ya never know) go back to your roots, start screwing Jessica Simpson and dump that crazy scientology crap.
Oh and start hanging out with Arnold.
[quote]E-man wrote:
Great point. His movies were some of the best before 1998 then they started turning weird and so did he. Thats about the time he started preaching all this scientology shit. Scientology is the downfall of Tom Cruise’s career. Tom if your reading this(ya never know) go back to your roots, start screwing Jessica Simpson and dump that crazy scientology crap.
Oh and start hanging out with Arnold.
[/quote]
His decline has been precipitous, but it doesn’t hold a candle to Travolta. He took the promoting Scientology thing so far he actually got Battlefield Earth made. He said it would be like Star Wars, only better. There’s no coming back from that.
Thank goodness you said that. Add an extremely puzzled look on your face and a head tilt to that inquiry and we have ourselves a Man. Half ignore the answer, let the answer go way over your head then carry on with what you were previously doing and we REALLY have ourselves a Man. HOORRAH!!!
[quote]Professor X wrote:
marijuology wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I agere with this. I think the knee jerk reaction to what was stated is ridiculous. There are too many people medicated as of late. What happened to getting to the bottom of what was causing the problem? Does anyone truly believe that suddenly so many kids have attention deficit disorder?
Perhaps they are just being kids. At least 50% of the patients I see on a daily basis are on some kind of antidepressant. Is anyone going to claim that this is a good thing? Tom Cruise isn’t a doctor so I don’t get why so many people are hating the man for his stance on medications. I wouldn’t exactly expect the best response from someone who doesn’t even have a college education.
The fact that there may be too many people medicated as of late does not justify Cruise’s stance. He’s saying that all psychiatric medication is bad in all cases, that all psychiatrists are ill-intentioned quacks and that all of psychiatry is a pseudoscience. This position is obviously derived from Scientology, which literally teaches that psychiatry is a massive worldwide consipracy to destroy Scientology and conquer the world. And Tom Cruise is coming onto national television disgusing this idiocy as a moderate, rational position and pretending to be concerned about the world when in fact he is just promoting Scientology’s goal of destroying psychiatry. He’s an idiot, and he doesn’t deserve anything except criticism even if he makes one or two valid points among all the bullshit he spews.
I could care less about his Scientology stance. That was my point. Tom isn’t a doctor. He isn’t educated in any field so why do people care so much what he says on the issue? The one point that I do agree with, however, is that as a nation, this society is OVER-medicated. All else is bullshit.[/quote]
He plays make believe for a living. How can anyone take hime seriously.
Scientology is fucked up but that doesn’t stop me from watching Top Gun.
Here you go, guys and gals. For those of you that know of Harlan Ellison, and I hope it is more than just myself, here is a cute letter from H.E. about L.R. Hubbard back in the day. Hope you all enjoy it. And stop all the bitching. Gee whiz…
The following excerpt was taken from a magazine called “Saturday Evening Wings,” which was printed for awhile in the 1970s. “Wings” described itself as “Wings – The New Age Satire Magazine”. The issue this excerpt was taken from was the Nov.-Dec. '78 issue. It is of great interest, because Harlan Ellison, a rather famous science fiction writer, claims to have been present the night L. Ron Hubbard decided to write “Dianetics.”
On Scientology and L. Ron Hubbard:
Ellison: Scientology is bullshit! Man, I was there the night L. Ron Hubbard invented it, for Christ Sakes!
I was sitting in a room with L. Ron Hubbard and a bunch of other science fiction writers. L. Ron Hubbard was famous among science fiction writers because he was the first one to have an electric typewriter.
Wings: He claimed to have written “Dianetics” in a weekend, and nobody can deny it.
Ellison: That’s true. He wrote “Dianetics” in one weekend, and you know how he used to write? He used to take a roll of white paper, like paper you wrap fish in. He had it on the wall, and he would roll it into the typewriter and he would begin typing. When he was done, he would tear it off and leave it as one whole long novel.
We were sitting around one night. … who else was there? Alfred Bester, and Cyril Kornbluth, and Lester Del Rey, and Ron Hubbard, who was making a penny a word, and had been for years. And he said “This bullshit’s got to stop!” He says, “I gotta get money.” He says, “I want to get rich”.
Wings: He is also supposed to have said on that same night: “The question is not how to make a million dollars, but how to keep it.”
Ellison: Right. And somebody said, “why don’t you invent a new religion? They’re always big.” We were clowning! You know, “Become Elmer Gantry! You’ll make a fortune!” He says, “I’m going to do it.” Sat down, stole a little bit from Freud, stole a little bit from Jung, a little bit from Alder, a little bit of encounter therapy, pre-Janov Primal Screaming, took all that bullshit, threw it all together, invented a few new words, because he was a science fiction writer, you know, “engrams” and “regression”, all that bullshit. And then he conned John Campbell, who was crazy as a thousand battlefields. I mean, he believed any goddamned thing. He really believed blacks were inferior. I mean he really believed that. He was also very nervous when I was in his office because I was a Jew. You know, he was afraid maybe I would spring horns or something.
Anyhow, the way he conned John was that he had J. A. Winter, who was a doctor, who was a close friend of John’s, and he got him to run this article on Dianetics, the new science of mental health.
Wings: Dianometry was the first article, I believe.
Ellison: Right. And science fiction fans will go for any goddamm thing. They’ll believe anything, man, they will believe in the abominable snowman and the Bermuda Triangle, in Pyramid Power, in EST, in Scientology, in the Second Coming, they’ll believe in any goddamm thing, they don’t give a shit. They go to see “Star Wars”; they think it is for real!
So science fiction fans picked it up, they began proselytizing, he started making money, when he had made enough money he was able to spread out a little more, then he got more cuckoos, you know, pre-Charlie Manson assholes that had no place else to go, and he began talking to these loons as if “Dianetics” really meant something. Then he wanted to get tax-exempt status, so he called it “The Church of Scientology”.
Now, they’ve gotten so big that they own property all over the country, and it is impossible to stop it. They infiltrated the FBI, they infiltrated the tax department, … the funny thing is, Ron Hubbard and I still occasionally communicate with each other. Every once in a while, a couple or three times a year, we exchange letters. And I write to him, you know, and I say, “Hey Ron, when is this bullshit going to cease? These cuckoos are really driving me crazy! They come around the house with pamphlets!” And he writes me back, and he says, “It’s the good work, it’s the good work.”
It’s all very funny stuff. He was going to write a new story for me for the last “Dangerous Visions”, but I guess he got too busy counting his money. I don’t know.
I doubt you’ll sway him, but for the rest of the folks out there I hope they consider your points.