To All The Unbelievers

The reason I am writing these things is not because I am trying to create some exclusive Christian club. Please understand my motive. I thought I was a Christian for 10 years but I was deceived. I had faith but not repentance. I wish someone would have told me to take a good look at myself in light of scripture, rather than just flattering me.

Just look at these passages. Don’t think that I am expecting you to answer to me. One day you will have to answer to God. I am only trying to warn you.

Here are the Scriptures I had in mind when I wrote my last post:

James 2: 14-20

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?

1 Corinthians 5: 9-13

I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner - not even to eat with such a person.

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”

Ephesians 5: 1-7

Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.

Mathew 7: 21-29

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

“But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Romans 12: 1-2

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

1 John 3:4-9

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

1 John 1: 5-7

This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.

Mathew 10: 34-39

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.”

1 Peter 3: 8-12

Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing. For

“He who would love life
And see good days,
Let him refrain his tongue from evil,
And his lips from speaking deceit.
Let him turn away from evil and do good;
Let him seek peace and pursue it.
For the eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their prayers;
But the face of the LORD is against those who do evil.”

Mathew 8: 18-22

And when Jesus saw great multitudes about Him, He gave a command to depart to the other side. Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, “Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go.”
And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

Then another of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”

But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”

[quote]JPBear wrote:

Just look at these passages. Don’t think that I am expecting you to answer to me. One day you will have to answer to God. I am only trying to warn you.

[/quote]

If you said that to someone in a working environment for example, it could be counted as harrasment or threatening behaviour.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
Here are the Scriptures I had in mind when I wrote my last post:

James 2: 14-20

What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, and one of you says to them, “Depart in peace, be warmed and filled,” but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

But someone will say, “You have faith, and I have works.” Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe - and tremble! But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
[/quote]

I’m happy to cede that this means you will have to act appropriately in some way. Where the disagreement will come is in figuring out what those actions are.

[quote]1 Corinthians 5: 9-13

I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner - not even to eat with such a person.

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.”[/quote]

I’m going to go against the grain a little, and simplify the above as simply don’t hang around with evil people. However, I probably have a slightly different view of what is or is not evil than the examples used to illustrate the point from that timeframe.

[quote]Ephesians 5: 1-7

Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.[/quote]

As with most larger quotes it is apparent that various issues are being mashed together.

It starts be telling us to “love” one another. However, while it appears to say that there is no room in heaven for people with bad qualities, it adds the stipulation that they none of them, if they are idolators, have any place.

Telling us not to be deceived is nice, but it would be great if the message was clear enough that we could actually be sure what it is. Perhaps being deceived might be similar to being used, such as how Islamic fanatics deceive Islamic youth about God and religion.

It must be something fairly serious if the wrath of God will come down because of empty words.

However, if you look at it, and at our own recent past, I think the problem with being a drunkard, an alcoholic, is that you treat your family, your loved ones, very poorly.

It always seems to come down to whether or not people are doing things that are causing pain and suffering to other people.

[quote]Mathew 7: 21-29

"Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

"Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.

“But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall.”

And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.[/quote]

Don’t do things for the glory of God (in the name of Jesus). Do as you have been taught… which means to be good to each other, to take care of each other, apparently.

[quote]Romans 12: 1-2

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.[/quote]

Do not bend to the evils of the world around you, just because everyone else is doing something, but be true.

[quote]1 John 3:4-9

Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness. And you know that He was manifested to take away our sins, and in Him there is no sin. Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.[/quote]

This does not sound like the words of Jesus. How are we to take these words literaly when they are but a paraphrasing of what another said and meant?

However, it can easily be a paraphrase of the fact that he who is born of God treats his fellows well, and does not harm them or let them suffer. This seems to be the primary deliniation between good and evil.

[quote]1 John 1: 5-7

This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.[/quote]

Again, sounds like a person relating what he took from the message that Jesus gave. When you try to work this stuff in, literally, with the points that Jesus makes, they just don’t have the same message.

However, consider a simple interpretation for having darkness. It fits perfectly with the concept of being mean, or evil, or causing or allowing others around you to come to harm.

[quote]Mathew 10: 34-39

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’ He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for My sake will find it.”[/quote]

Ah, someone worth listening to. He didn’t come to bring peace but to set one against another. It sounds like he is imposing a new hierarchy of authority.

Alternately, to go back to the be good to people concept “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me” can very easily equate to listening to your family and doing evil, such as stealing, killing, or whatnot, because you were told or because they needed things and that was the only way to provide for them.

Basically, once I look at the Bible as a very long winded way to say that we should love one another, be good to one another, every single anectdote and illustrative parable fit like a hand to a glove.

[quote]1 Peter 3: 8-12

Finally, all of you be of one mind, having compassion for one another; love as brothers, be tenderhearted, be courteous; not returning evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary blessing, knowing that you were called to this, that you may inherit a blessing. For

“He who would love life
And see good days,
Let him refrain his tongue from evil,
And his lips from speaking deceit.
Let him turn away from evil and do good;
Let him seek peace and pursue it.
For the eyes of the LORD are on the righteous,
And His ears are open to their prayers;
But the face of the LORD is against those who do evil.”[/quote]

Intriguing, in that the first part tells us to love one another, to be good to one another, and the rest of the passage is simply driving that point home.

It appears here that being good is very much about how we treat one another. I really have to wonder about the conditions of the time of Jesus, and how many people were poor, homeless and hungry, while others were not.

It is very easy to come away from these things with a central theme that lying (decieving), stealing and committing bad acts against other people are the primary sins being discussed.

[quote]Matthew 8: 18-22

And when Jesus saw great multitudes about Him, He gave a command to depart to the other side. Then a certain scribe came and said to Him, “Teacher, I will follow You wherever You go.”
And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air have nests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

Then another of His disciples said to Him, “Lord, let me first go and bury my father.”

But Jesus said to him, “Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead.”[/quote]

Not sure where this one is going. Are we not to delay but to follow immediately, or is there some more significant interpretation you like to see in this?

Be good to each other now, immediately, and do not bother with unfinished business, revenge or anything else. Let the past be the past and immediately start on your new journey?

I don’t know.

Anyway, it should be quite obvious that when I read these passages I find that I am to treat my fellow man well. While I can certainly see for myself who is treating his fellow man well and who isn’t, it’s not for me to go and exact punishment for it. However, I certainly should go and tell those that aren’t being good to one another that they should be good to one another.

All that additional baloney being added on top of the simple message of Jesus is perplexing. It isn’t necessary or needed that there be anything else to the message.

However, feel free to point out where you think I’ve gone wrong.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

JPBear wrote:

Only the Lord knows if you are truly saved

And that is where it should end. [/quote]

It is so funny how some people are so moved by what Jesus has done in their life that they can’t help but say nothing about it. Yes Pox, you are amazing.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Professor X wrote:

JPBear wrote:

Only the Lord knows if you are truly saved

And that is where it should end.

It is so funny how some people are so moved by what Jesus has done in their life that they can’t help but say nothing about it. Yes Pox, you are amazing.
[/quote]

That was quite ridiculous. We just had a religious discussion on this board LAST WEEK. How is it you missed that? I haven’t heard you profess your relationship with God once on this board…ever. Doesn’t that mean you are the one falling short? It isn’t JP Bear’s place to judge me unworthy or worthy of being a Christian. It isn’t her place to define my personal relationship with God. Is she truly saved? Are you? How do I know you aren’t lying? How is it any of my business or anyone else’s? Would a true Christian type the post you just did? I now consider you unworthy. Is that how it works?

Here you go, my dear deluded “terribleivan” (ooh, what a very Christian name…terrible). This was one thread that did not turn into utter crap that we just had days ago. According to you, I never speak about my relationship with what I believe. That means you are either very unperceptive, or you are lying. Which is it, Terrible? Do I get to judge you now?

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1113553&pageNo=0

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Here you go, my dear deluded “terribleivan” (ooh, what a very Christian name…terrible). This was one thread that did not turn into utter crap that we just had days ago. According to you, I never speak about my relationship with what I believe. That means you are either very unperceptive, or you are lying. Which is it, Terrible? Do I get to judge you now?

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1113553&pageNo=0

[/quote]

You can pass judgement however you want. It doens’t matter much to me. I’m not quite as sensitive as you :wink:

Just for the record, I am grateful Jesus died for a sinner like me!

[quote]JPBear wrote:
The reason I am writing these things is not because I am trying to create some exclusive Christian club. Please understand my motive. I thought I was a Christian for 10 years but I was deceived. I had faith but not repentance. I wish someone would have told me to take a good look at myself in light of scripture, rather than just flattering me.

[/quote]

JP - I am very happy to hear you have a strong relationship with Jesus now. It is quite wonderful, isn’t it?

I know you say what you do on these boards because you want to help people, and I am sure it makes you sad when your warnings go unheeded. I hope you have more patience than I have - especially with the more prideful individuals.

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Here you go, my dear deluded “terribleivan” (ooh, what a very Christian name…terrible). This was one thread that did not turn into utter crap that we just had days ago. According to you, I never speak about my relationship with what I believe. That means you are either very unperceptive, or you are lying. Which is it, Terrible? Do I get to judge you now?

http://www.T-Nation.com/readTopic.do?id=1113553&pageNo=0

You can pass judgement however you want. It doens’t matter much to me. I’m not quite as sensitive as you :wink:

Just for the record, I am grateful Jesus died for a sinner like me!

[/quote]

Yes, but what are you doing about your sin ?

LOL religion threads are so much fun.

You guys are completely nuts. I admit that there is something humorously gratifying for me to see folks publicly and seriously announce that they are crazy and superstitious. As long as nobody gets hurt on account of your insanity, I for one applaud you guys and your… … “faith”.

Please continue. :smiley:

[quote]terribleivan wrote:
I’m not quite as sensitive as you :wink:

[/quote]

You also didn’t admit that you were wrong.

You are all wrong.

Only the FSM can save your soul! Stop reading those pagan books that don’t mention the FSM.

RAmen.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
LOL religion threads are so much fun.

You guys are completely nuts. I admit that there is something humorously gratifying for me to see folks publicly and seriously announce that they are crazy and superstitious. As long as nobody gets hurt on account of your insanity, I for one applaud you guys and your… … “faith”.

Please continue. :smiley: [/quote]

What ? Are you repeating what I put in laymans terms ?

If those with strong feelings of proximity to Jesus would care to come here and post, perhaps they should first remember the wise words of Jesus himself.

‘Do not give dogs what is holy ; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to
attack you.’ MATTHEW 7:6

Back peddling a little, we know why they come here, for the reasons mentioned earlier, to be a martyr and revel in the persecution that elevates their worth. Serious psychological issues from where I am standing, I don’t have an axe to grind with anyone here.

It is said that the bible is written so that a seventh grade educated person can understand it and expound on it.

As stated,these religious posts and some replys have given enough scripture concerning the gospel of Jesus Christ on salvation,how to live a christian life,and warnings to the unbelievers.

To those who are truley searching for the truth,just post and the christian community will come forth and help.

To those who care not for the truth,the christian has but one recourse.The bible is the christians only standard of truth.The christian can only answer from it’s instructions on how to deal with believers,unbelievers,and those who do not welcome the truth of the word of God,the bible.

Matthew 7:6 “Give not that which is holy unto the dogs,neither cast ye your pearls before swine,lest they trample them under their feet,and turn again to rend you.”

Christians are not to try to force the holy and beautiful spiritual things God has given them on rebellious sinners.However,care must be taken not to be too quick to identify people as dogs and swine unless they show an unholy reaction.

Matthew 10:14 “And whosoever shall not receive you,nor hear your words,when ye depart out of that house,shake off the dust of your feet.”

The apostles were not to waste time where neither they nor their message was welcome.They must leave and symbolically shake the dust from their feet,making it clear they had been rejected and were no longer responsible for what happened.To reject the message was to reject Jesus.The disciples had to let the people know the deadly effects of rebellion and sin.

II Timothy 2:23-26 “…foolish and unlearned questions avoid,knowing that they do gender strifes.And the servents of the Lord must not strive,but be gentle unto all men,apt to teach,patient.In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves,if God peradventure will give them repentance,to the knowledge of the truth.And that they may recover themselves,out of the snare of the devil,who are taken captive by him at his will.”

The christian is not to have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments,because they know that they produce quarrels.The christian is to make a concious effort to sidestep the divisive,unprofitable,foolish,and ignorant questions that gender strifes.The christian doesn’t get embroiled in quarrels or word battles.He must be gentle even when he must point out a fault in another and must be patient with an attitude of forebearance toward those who oppose him.The christian must in meekness,instruct those that oppose themselves with a gentleness that corrects with kindness,self-control,and a humility that is willing to foregive.The purpose of God’s gift of repentance is seen in the
words “that they may recover(or return to soberness)themselves out of the snare(trap)Of the devil”

MARANATHA

Blacksheep,

That was a great post!

I have been doing a lot of thinking, praying and searching the scriptures in regards to Biblical evangelism lately, and your post has really brought some great truths to light.

[quote]jasonigor wrote:

‘Do not give dogs what is holy ; and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under foot and turn to
attack you.’ MATTHEW 7:6

[/quote]

This scripture was written pages ago to Steve and it was trampled over. I am wondering why it has taken this many posts of it.

LOL. So, I guess I am not qualified to have an interpretation?

[quote]vroom wrote:
LOL. So, I guess I am not qualified to have an interpretation?[/quote]

I’m not sure if you are talking to me here. Are you wondering why I didn’t respond to you?

If that is what you meant, I was planning on responding, I’ve just been thinking about the best way to approach it.

I can’t argue you into the faith. I thought those Scriptures would illuminate some things, but they didn’t. I don’t see any benefit in arguing my interpretation vs. yours, especially when our basic rules for approaching the text are so different.

Also, I think if I was talking to you in person it would be different because you would be able to see in my eyes that I am sincere and not just trying to win a debate. It is hard to convey tone and sincerity on an internet forum. People misunderstand your motives and then get angry at you.

I’m sorry if this doesn’t make perfect sense but I’m really tired right now.

[quote]JPBear wrote:
vroom wrote:
LOL. So, I guess I am not qualified to have an interpretation?

I’m not sure if you are talking to me here. Are you wondering why I didn’t respond to you?

If that is what you meant, I was planning on responding, I’ve just been thinking about the best way to approach it.

I can’t argue you into the faith. I thought those Scriptures would illuminate some things, but they didn’t. I don’t see any benefit in arguing my interpretation vs. yours, especially when our basic rules for approaching the text are so different.

Also, I think if I was talking to you in person it would be different because you would be able to see in my eyes that I am sincere and not just trying to win a debate. It is hard to convey tone and sincerity on an internet forum. People misunderstand your motives and then get angry at you.

I’m sorry if this doesn’t make perfect sense but I’m really tired right now.

[/quote]
I’m not sure who I’m talking to either… :wink:

Anyway, at least, rest assured I am not going to be upset or angry because you believe or interpret something different than I do.

However, do realize that I am as comfortable and confident in my interpretation as you presumably are in yours.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
terribleivan wrote:
I’m not quite as sensitive as you :wink:

You also didn’t admit that you were wrong.[/quote]

That’s because I’m not :wink:

Still have hurt feelings, do ya?