PumpkinPie, I just wanted to make a few small points about Brett (not Brent) Hull. He has dual citizenship as a result of his mother being an American citizen at the time of his birth. His father, Bobby, is of course a Canadian. Brett did not change his loyalties. He has always had two loyalties. He has great respect for his Canadian roots, but the great country of America was able to provide his father with a place in which he would become a legend. Now, Brett’s first choice was to play for Canada. He wanted to be a part of Team Canada at the 1987 Canada Cup, but he was just a rookie at the time. Team USA offered him a tryout and he jumped at the chance. Once you play for a country after the age of 18, you are bound to play for that country and no other.
Oz, writing those things about Gretzky is foolish. He made a mistake and he knows it. He was apologetic the next day about the “American propaganda” comment. How do you think you would react with the weight of a country on your shoulders? Gretzky has always been the epitome of sportsmanship. He is one of the greatest ambassadors that sports has ever seen. Your comments are unwarranted and ignorant.
To others: please let’s drop this America vs. Canada bullshit. The best two countries in the world also have the best two hockey teams in the world. Mike’s comments were ludicrous and should not be taken as typical of all Canadians. I’ve seen these same debates happen at various hockey boards, and I don’t want to see this go further. For the people who think we are gloating too much about the hockey win, perhaps you’re right. But cut us some slack, it’s all we have! I think we are a superpower in trampoline gymnastics or something like that, but the U.S. will probably win the gold medal in that, too.
One more thing bud, why would you bring up the hockey teams moving to the U.S. as a slam against Canada? It’s all about the dollars smart guy, and unfortunately those teams could not survive in Canada. I hate to say this, but the NHL will probably end up having only 2 or 3 teams based in Canada (Toronto, Montreal, maybe Vancouver will survive). Okay, that’s it.
What the hell is going on here? Bryan had a beautiful
thread dealing with Canadian National Pride. Next, we’re made privy to an oblique comment rendered by some knuckle-head (who was probably soused at the time) playing cards in Texas. And now we’re reduced to slinging mud over the border…? PEOPLE, let’s put this thing into perspective and realize just where it’s coming from…(after all, assholes ARE ubiquitous). Next, I suggest that we pick up our gloves, go back
to our respective benches, and cut this shit out, eh?
Thanks for the pat on the back, Joey Z. OK, everybody, lets take a collective deep breath. There’s no need for any of that anti-Canada/ anti-American nonsense you see on some other boards. Let’s just put it to rest by saying both our countries have prospered immensely by having such an open, symbiotic relationship. We’re more like cousins than we are neighbors, and anyone who disputes that probably hasn’t spent enough time in both countries.
All right, onto Gretzky. This guy truly is the real deal. Think about it: in nearly 20 years as the greatest hockey player of all time, there has never been a report of him absuing drugs, getting busted with a room full of hookers, holding out on his contract, not even snubbing an autograph seeker. Heck he’s even nice to 99% of the reporters who just want to bust his chops in print! If ever there was an athlete who lived up to their unwritten obligation as “role model”, it was (is) Wayne Gretzky.
(And by the way, I am not just kissing his ass because I’m Canadian. Shit, I was a Jets fan!! Do you know how frustrating it was to watch a team as great as the late 80’s Winnipeg Jets, who would kick ass all season only to face an Edmonton Oilers team that featured Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri and Lowe in the FIRST DAMN ROUND of the playoffs? Man, that was painful!)
Final point: shame on Team USA coach Herb Brooks. Whining about Team Canada having an easier schedule than Team USA was extremely uncool. Come on, whining about a rough schedule in the Olympics is very un-American. Maybe Brooks should test out coaching a Russian Olympic team.
Gretzky should of took it like a fucking man. Instead of his whining and crying he should have talked about team Canada’s chemistry. When team Canada started clicking he shut up. He was just a fucking pussy who had to make up exuses for his team because they were expected to win. But then again, didn’t Gretzky get that Lady Bing Trophy. I don’t know about you but that’s the last thing I would want in a game filled with grinders, scrappers, and enforcers. Don’t get me wrong, Canada is a great team and deserved to win but Gretzky was taking Russia’s lead complaining about the discrimination against each of their countries. See you in 2006!
Hey, Magnus. Great name. Great post. I am glad that you did not defend Mike. I agree that he is the exception. It is appropriate to marginalize this guy’s comments. I have known many Canadians. I think that the majority of Canadians have a great deal of respect for America. By the way, the U.S. guy who stated that Canada wouldn’t fight, needs a little history refresher. Canada has responded quickly to each major conflict fought since her creation. There are many notable Canadian heroes. For example, do you remember who shot down Manfred Von Richtofen? The Canadian, Brown. Take a look at most major wars of the twentieth century. You will find that the Canadians were right on the front lines. I am also glad that there have been so many Canadians on the forum today who expressed the truth about the relationship between Canadians and the United States. Our two countries are very strong allies. The only time Americans become perturbed at Canadians is when Canadians try to assert their nationalism at the expense of Americans.
Educate me a little Magnus. You said we invaded Canada in the war of 1812. I am unaware of any such invasion. Are you referring to our wild-man Benedict Arnold who tried to take Canada in 1775 with 1000 men? Remember, the idiot launched that invasion with 1000 men in the dead of winter against a fortress. He managed to fight against the fortress for an entire Canadian winter. You know full well what those winters are like. For that alone he should be admired. However, he had more bravery than brains. I agree we should end this thread. However, I would welcome any thread that discusses the French government and attitudes since 1945.
Pumpkin, glad to hear you like my handle, it’s actually my dog’s name. He’s a beautiful american staffordshire terrier named after the great Magnus ver Magnussen. (I hope I spelled that correctly) As I’m a bit of a history geek, I will try to keep my lesson of the events of 1812/13 brief. In July of 1812 the U.S declared war on Great Britain as a result of long simmering disputes between the two countries. The central dispute was over the capture and impressment of american sailors by the British navy. In addition the the British had set up a naval blockade between the U.S and the rest of Europe. Furthermore the U.S disagreed with the British over the Canadian border and who had the rights to the Northwest territories. On July 12/1812 the U.S under General Hull invaded Canada near Detroit and were defeated by British regular and Canadian forces. At this time Canada was still under British rule. The majority of the population living in Canada had no interest in this war and only fought feircly when invaded by U.S forces. Over the next year and a half there were several battles on Canadian soil. (Niagra Falls, Stoney Creek, Chrysler’s farm, Queensto heights, to name a few) During this time the U.S lost Detroit, Buffalo and eventually Washington. The white house and the Capitol were actually burned to the ground. The tide of war turned at the Battle of Baltimore in which the Americans were decisively victorious. The U.S navy also won the majority of the battles on the great lakes, lake Champlain and off the coast of Baltimore. The battle of New Orleans was also a decisive american victory. The war finally ended with the treaty of Ghent Dec.24/1813. In the end the U.S was successful in achieving all there goals with the exception of taking over any Canadian territory, although they did get control over the great lakes. The battles on Canadian soil were early examples of how Canadians, while not part of a military super power, will always fight feircely when threatened or when duty calls. Pumpkin, you were quite right when you said Canadians have fought in or participated as peace keepers in the majority of the world’s big conflicts. Canada has a proud military history and it’s soldiers have an unequaled reputation for bravery, ingenuity, empathy and kindness. There are simply no examples of Canadian forces ever retreating without being ordered to do so and even those instances are few and far between.
In comparison to the U.S, Canada is dominant in very few areas. Our population is a fraction of the size of the U.S and it is logistically impossible to compete with the U.S in most sports. This is why we take so much pride in our men’s and women’s national hockey team victories in Salt Lake. Let us have our little victories to gloat over. We are well aware it’s one of the few we have.
I was wondering why you would try to start trouble between Canada and the United States on this forum? In due time, the answer came to me. You are from Sweden. Now it is all clear, you have nothing else to do or say. You live in Sweden. You have done very little in 1000 years. Your best genetics left when the Vikings emigrated. You tried to make a little noise in the 1620’s when you built the Vasa. Unfortunately for you, it sank almost immediately. The only thing remotely interesting that you have done in that time is recruit one of Napolean’s generals to be your king (after offering an enormous sum of cash) and you have your Swedish bikini team. That’s it. Please write back and tell what else has happened that I might have missed. Please don’t include the occasional circus visit or snow-shoe expo.
Canada had Detroit? Why didn’t you keep that shithole? Also, just out of curiousity, how many of the soldiers you are referring to in 1812 were themselves Canadians and how many were British regulars?
Hey, don’t forget Gustav Adolphus! He had great lasting influence on… errr… OK nevermind. I went to Sweden this summer. I think Mike should be chastised for being on the computer at all. Hey Mike, have you looked around lately? There’s something else you should be doing with all the tall babes around – hint: It starts with “fuck” and it ends with “ing”.
its funny that the value of 3000 americans lives are valued more than 300,000 lives of any other nationality. Its also funny that every other week you seem to have found osama in a cave, only to find out hes not actually there.
Even if the U.S does find osama, it still won’t bring back the wtc, or that part of the pentagon. I don’t know if you guys get it, but you lost. You can’t win this war, just like vietnam. Canadians settle for mediocrity a lot of the time, but we aren’t taught to think that we are better than we really are.
I have NO problem with Canada or Canadians, but Jimmy pissed me off. At this point in history, every country on the planet Earth is there because the U.S. allows them to be. There is not one country or group of countries who could continue to exist if the U.S. decided they shouldn’t.
Oh that was great!!! Jimmy makes a really stupid generalization about americans which probably few Canadians would support and then Doogie tries his hardest to support Jimmy’s contention by posting an equally narrow minded comeback. These two posts are perfect examples of the misunderstanding between cultures and why much of the world’s population dislikes americans. Doogie I don’t blame you for standing up for your country, but your retort is the kind of message that maintains this circular line of reasoning. Your right that the U.S is easily the most powerful country in the world, but to say that every other country is allowed to exist because the U.S allows it, is utter retarded nonsense.
you know. I was born in North America. I won’t say which of the 3 countries. I don’t really care much for nationalism. I think the US continually throws it’s weight around internationally and then throws up its hands when groups that hate their guts kill their citizens. This will continue to happen. Do you really expect any country in the world to declare conventional war on the US? That’s friggin naive. You attack an enemy at his weakest point. It’s like throwin down your gun and dukin’ it out with Tyson in the name of “fairness”. Not friggin’ likely.
As for Canada, what a country! Unfortunately, living under the US shadow doesn’t sit well with all it’s citizens. What doogie doesn’t understand about Americans is that for the vast majority of them, national criticism means nothing. They don’t care. Read the papers. US is on top at the moment and probably will be for a while in most categories that anyone really cares about (but not neccessarily in those that really matter IMHO…literacy, hunger, healthcare) Enjoy life in Canada. Day to day, it’s probably easier and safer than being a US citizen.
The funny thing about this thread is that people from both countries allowed to get their nerves worked by some schmuck who claims to be from Sweden (i’d wager that’s a lie as well).
Oh and just to be completely fair and address all of North America: Mexico is a big mess but I don’t bag on them b/c without our brothers and sisters to the south at least 50% of North American juicers would be SOL.
Observer, I am going to try to keep this thread civil. I must tell you it is a struggle. First of all, I am an American. I would not trade that for anything. Second, DO NOT imply that terrorism is a legitimate tool that can be used by countries against the United States when they do not have the same number of convential weapons. DO NOT try to justify mass murder. There is no justification. You tell me what we were doing to Afghanistan on Sept 10th, 2001? Nothing. We had closed down our embassy in the late 1980’s In fact, people were complaining that we were not doing enough. You say that we throw our weight around. Now how can you say that? How are we throwing our weight around? Are we trying to take over an inch of land? Are we telling people that they cannot disagree with us? NO. I’ll sum up the reason for the hatred: We are free. We believe in the right’s of the individual. For totalitarian oppressive regimes this is very threatening. We have the soverign right to defend ourselves.
Hear this and hear it well. Don’t fuck with Mr. Zero. If you disagree with us, talk to the U.N. Impose trade sanctions against the U.S. Have a little march. DO NOT KILL OUR CITIZENS! By the way, it is fair to see that we have shown remarkable restraint. Considering the amount of “weight” we have, we have been extremely careful to minimize casualties. We have been pouring food and economic aid into Afghanistan. Now you tell me what other country in the history of the world has such a record of helping former enemies. Look at our history. See Germany, Japan, and Afghanistan.
Now as far as healthcare. Take a quick peek at how many Canadians cross the United States border to receive even the most basic of health care needs. Do you have any idea how long it takes to receive what we consider “routine health care.” Months on average. Oh, and if you want a life-saving emergent treatment, you might as well forget it. I want you to remember one thing, when you hear phrases like Universal, and Free, I want you to do a little research. Speaking of research WHO DEVELOPS NEARLY EVERY HEALTH CARE ADVANCE. And remember you only pay the bargain price of 60% taxes. Just to sum up, I object to everything in your post. Thank you for your attention.
No animosity, just a couple of observations/questions. Just out of curiousity, where did you hear/read about Canadians crossing the border for basic health care? I have heard of Canadians seeking novel treatments not yet approved in Canada in the US, but I’m pretty sure the vast, vast majority of Canadians use our own healthcare. It’s not perfect, but it’s pretty decent. Also, I wouldn’t say that almost all health care advances are made in the USA. Canadian universities are highly productive in pharmacological and medicinal research and make considerable contributions to advancing health care, as do European universities (I’m working towards my PhD researching neuroscience, so I do have some experience in related fields…but keep in mind we are a smaller population with fewer top-tier universities, but per capita the schools are highly productive).
Oh yeah, I live in Alberta where our income taxes are actually lower than a lot of US states and we have no provincial sales tax. Not all provinces are as heavily taxed as you might think. Cheers.
Wow! Struck a nerve there. Where did I say it was right to kill innocent people? Try to keep some perspective and read my post again. I never defended terrorism. I only said that it is naive to expect people who hate the good ol’ US of A to fight fair and stick to conventional means. Pointing out the facts and endorsing them isn’t the same thing. Learn the difference. Anyone in recent history who has put up a conventional force against the US in recent history has lost and lost badly so my point was that a comparison of military might was a bit silly. I am glad that the US is feeding the people that they bomb. I am also glad that the US is trying to help the emergent government in Kabul get on it’s feet. Although, if past history is any guide, this regime will turn against the US in time as well (Both Osama’s Taliban and Saddam were on US payroll before they turned into enemies). I hope I am wrong on this one.
As for the US throwing it’s weight around, hmmm… Whether you believe they are or not, it is perceived almost universally worldwide that they are by people from all sorts of backgrounds. Do you deny this? And, whether you like it or not, this perception is probably more important than your opinion when it comes to dealing with terrorists. I do think the US exerts a very large influence in international matters (i.e. throws its weight around) but I expect this and don’t really have a problem with it. In many cases, direct US interests are being protected. In some cases, it is difficult for me to see whose interests are being protected.
As for the state of Canadian healthcare, I don’t doubt you are correct. I think the difference is felt mainly among the working poor where in the US they go without while in Canada, they at least have some options regarding healthcare. Canada has a lower infant mortality rate than the US (as of 1995) which must count for something. Maybe a few dead childen is worth the extra 30% of income that US citizens get to take home. I’ll have to think about that one.
