IMO its a mental illness. A compulsion or an obsession. A powerful delusion as powerful as something like schizophrenia.
If you have been personally hurt by suicide, you may not be unbiased in judging it. You may let your anger sway your feelings.
[quote]Eli B wrote:
IMO its a mental illness. A compulsion or an obsession. A powerful delusion as powerful as something like schizophrenia.
If you have been personally hurt by suicide, you may not be unbiased in judging it. You may let your anger sway your feelings.[/quote]
this
I think it’s perfectly fine.
Bricknyce (as he usually does) summed up my thoughts pretty well.
And I also think it takes a lot of balls to commit suicide.
People who think someone taking his own life was/is an egoistic failure are short-sighted and might still be pretty young and/or idealistic and/or deeply religious.
Deep down, this stance seems pretty self-righteous to me and I’m partial to thinking that it might stem from not having seen enough of life (the good, the bad and the ugly) yet.
But to each his own.
Suicide critics accusing a suicide of not having thought about his loved ones are right insofar as the suicide will surely deeply impact the loved ones lives. Not cool. But then again: whose life was it in the first place?
So, to reiterate, my stance is that suicide is perfectly fine if you don’t have people directly depending on you, like, say, a child or a partner who depends so much on you that you committing suicide would most definitely lead to him/her committing suicide. That’s where things start to get blurry for me…
[quote]Im_New_Feed_Me wrote:
Suicidal Horse.
[/quote]
Hmmm… No sir, I don’t like it.
So you are done with your lifts, you are all pumped up. Throw out your sweat shirt and you start curling with your tank top on like no tommorrow. People are looking, intensity is hitting you harder and harder.
You say screw this, walk over to the leg press. Throw in 8 plates on each side say let me show off some more. Then you start repping. You want to drop set. You start hitting it, four …five … eight … ten twelve … drop the weight.
You start focusing, random fleeting images of your life in front of you. Your brain is cranking up and your legs seem to have a life of its own. Nine ten … eleven twelve… its 24 reps done and you are still pushing.
Its starting to pinch, your knees are shaking … you feel the pain in your calves moving into the tie ins of your hamstrings. Three four five … your inner quads cry - stop , i am gonna give way, you knees are shivering and throbbing. Eight … nine … shit bro I can’t I really cant … your partner is screaming, light weight…light weight and you are gassing out.
Six plates are left, you take a 6 second breater you see the truth of life unfold right in front of your eyes. You see why you got into this sport, the women that drool, the attention - guys askin you each time you hit a club… the ego inflating like a hypertrophic muscle group. And you start pusing, four …five … shit hurts again, focus ***** …focus. you can do this too - you got this far did’nt you?
Eight …nine its 33 reps done, 3 reps remain and 12 plates on the rack.You are not able to do it. Wrong motivation suckaaa… you in it for the wrong shit boy. Focus motherfucker this is YOUR life. The chics ain’t worth it, the fame aint worth it… its you…all you … only you. Push bro…push. its all you now…all you -its beyond all this shit.Pussy is pussy, it ain’t gonna get you bigger or stronger.
Nine …ten …eleven …tweleve …thirteen …fourteen - yeah bitches i am back, drop set, 5 plates on either side (10 on the rack) push … eight nine ten … fleeting images of the skinny you, come to life, push …push…
44 reps done, your body is filled with a cold feeling. Its 96 degrees of smoldering heat, there’s no AC, at 200mcg’s you are sweating like a fucking pig thats mating like no tommorrow. Your molars chatter like a typewriter. Its getting colder and colder, your head starts to shiver, you start to blink faster, your eyes burn with the sweat and tears. You have no control of your bodily functions or fluids.
Push …push mother …push 8 plates remain, the mist in your eyes clear up and you see the light. You see why this pain is worth it. You see the true meaning of why you put yourself through this shit. You see why you do, what you do, though everything you do goes against the basic principles of health OR wellness. You realize that you in it, for you. For that insatiable size driven monster that is never appeased no matter how much you grow.
Eighth rep, you just stop, your body is lost and your mind is shut down. You just freeze, with 500 lbs directly above on the overhead press. Your partner is screaming, you hear a distant voice, push…
and you push like you have nothing to gain
and you push like you have nothing to lose
and that is when you will grow, when you detach yourself from the weight and the pain and do this as if you were born to do it.
You finish up, you realize that your mouth is filled with bile vomit , the place stinks and you have a shit stain in your fucking pants.
Your partner asks you not to move, you lie down - with a myraid of images just running by like an old reel of film without a stopper. And you smile.
you get off the machine, put your top back on … even though your body looks like every single vein is gonna burst and people just stand and stare. You put your skull lid low, bend your head and limp away quietly.
because this is about you! fuck them … they will laugh when everything is fine but when you cry … they will move away.Its all you bossman… all you- only you.
One more rep - and then there is you. Do it boy - and walk out proud, but humble at the same time.
Fuck pain
Train insane
or Remain the fucking same
[quote]Im_New_Feed_Me wrote:
[quote]7thSonofa7thSon wrote:
[quote]rundymc wrote:
[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
"Every suicide story I’ve experienced or read about sounded pathetic. A friend of mine had a girlfriend that killed herself over a shitty social life. Another jumped out of his window because of debt. Some guy in the paper killed himself and his retarded kid because his business was failing. "
Did you ever happen to think that some people suffer from extremely poor coping skills and/or mental illness?![/quote]
Yes of course. Having “poor coping skills” and jumping in front of a train makes you a coward. Having a mental illness means you are unfortunate. My beef is with people who are healthy (sorry if I didn’t make that clear).
This is an internet forum, and I’m voicing an opinion, not trying to pass it off as FACT, which I would need either formal training or experience to do.
[quote]And have any of you considered that people on here might have a loved one that commited suicide, all while having to hear what a coward this person might have been?
[/quote]
Of course, doesn’t change my opinion. Everyone that commits suicide knew someone else. They all had families, why not on this board.
Also, no I never had a loved one that committed suicide. I’ve had friends that have and it hasn’t changed my opinion of it. If my own brother decided to off himself I would feel deep regret for not being able to help him, but I would still think he took the coward’s way out.
Just because someone out there has an opinion on a subject that differs from your own, does not mean it is unfounded in the real world. I do not, as an atheist, challenge my friends’ motives for being Christian, Hindus and Muslims, and proceed to belittle their opinions on faith. They probably have good reason to think what they do. Get of your high horse.
[/quote]
Man, every response you made, and your “cowards way out” and “i wouldnt change my opinion” shit REEKS of bullshit and ignorance. How do you know that your brothers hypothetical suicide wouldnt change your mind? I’f you’ve never been through something, you can’t really know how you will react, especially something as traumatic as the suicide of a loved one.
This hardcore “macho” attitude is the same ignorant attitude those bullies have. Fuck you and the horse you rode in on.[/quote]
Suicidal Horse.
Edit - That’s a good band name.[/quote]
I like it, we’d need two drummers.
^to the guy above. I’ve had friends (two) do it, one being close. I’ve also had loved ones die (who hasn’t?), a couple pretty traumatically. Good enough for you?
I don’t know why you and other posters keep referring to this type of viewpoint as ‘hardcore’ or ‘macho’; is the opposing viewpoint then ‘pussy’/‘bleeding-heart’? Of course not, you’re entitled to your own opinion.
I think suicide is cowardly and weak when it involves a healthy human being. I feel legitimately for the people around him/her, but I have a hard time having sympathy for said individuals. If you do feel for them, I applaud you, we need more empathy in this world. I’m sorry I could not help.
[quote]7thSonofa7thSon wrote:
[quote]ickabodd wrote:
Suicide has always been, and will ever remain, the coward’s way out. End of story.[/quote]
What about Erwin Rommel? The Desert Fox was presented with the choice of committing suicide and retaining his dignity and respect, or deny his involvement with the Hitler assassination, stand a mock trial, and be executed in utter disgrace. It also resulted in his family retaining their honor and state support. Was HE a coward for choosing suicide?[/quote]
Fucking Rommel? Hitler didn’t have the balls to put Rommel on public trial so instead he made him his bitch by persuading him to take his own life in exchange for the safety of his family. Rommel should have accounted for the safety of his family in advance of his participation in a plot to overthrow Hitler and then played his hand instead of folding like a pussy. Perhaps then his death would have helped the Germans rise up against that madman instead of being buried as a hero of that evil regime. So he wasn’t ‘presented with a choice’ inasmuch as he just failed to plan for the worst case (so much for the brilliant tactician that history venerates).
And how did you come to confuse the OP original post about lost and confused teenagers with the stage of international politics anyway? (I don’t really think Rommel was a pussy btw).
Throwing every suicidal person into the “weak pussy attention-whore” category is a grave mistake and disrespectful to those who truly need help. It’s often difficult to find the line between the two so who among you have the right to dismiss it altogether?
Many of us can never know what deep dark depths an anguished soul can fall into with no visible means of climbing out. So until you’re the one down in that abyss, it’s best to keep your toughguy posturing to yourself.
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Throwing every suicidal person into the “weak pussy attention-whore” category is a grave mistake and disrespectful to those who truly need help. It’s often difficult to find the line between the two so who among you have the right to dismiss it altogether?
Many of us can never know what deep dark depths an anguished soul can fall into with no visible means of climbing out. So until you’re the one down in that abyss, it’s best to keep your toughguy posturing to yourself.[/quote]
Please forgive me, I did not realize I was still on the iVillage forum when I posted my previous response.
Suicide is a very serious issue in reality and the Iron Dwarf articulates a compassionate and understanding opinion on the subject (he has beaten me into submission with his mighty tool)!
But this is not reality, it’s the internet - the ‘Get a Life’ forum on T-Nation to be precise. I think posturing is entirely appropriate in this venue. I assumed people here understood that; forgive my error. Buzz Killer.
i keep going to kill myself but then just end up pointing the gun at stupid people. it aleviates the pain temporarily. i need a more PERMANENT solution.
[quote]ickabodd wrote:
[quote]7thSonofa7thSon wrote:
[quote]ickabodd wrote:
Suicide has always been, and will ever remain, the coward’s way out. End of story.[/quote]
What about Erwin Rommel? The Desert Fox was presented with the choice of committing suicide and retaining his dignity and respect, or deny his involvement with the Hitler assassination, stand a mock trial, and be executed in utter disgrace. It also resulted in his family retaining their honor and state support. Was HE a coward for choosing suicide?[/quote]
Fucking Rommel? Hitler didn’t have the balls to put Rommel on public trial so instead he made him his bitch by persuading him to take his own life in exchange for the safety of his family. Rommel should have accounted for the safety of his family in advance of his participation in a plot to overthrow Hitler and then played his hand instead of folding like a pussy.
Perhaps then his death would have helped the Germans rise up against that madman instead of being buried as a hero of that evil regime. So he wasn’t ‘presented with a choice’ inasmuch as he just failed to plan for the worst case (so much for the brilliant tactician that history venerates).
And how did you come to confuse the OP original post about lost and confused teenagers with the stage of international politics anyway? (I don’t really think Rommel was a pussy btw).
[/quote]
Because this thread degenerated from an attempt to have a reasonable discussion to a battle of YOU!! NO YOU!!! NO YOU!!! (I had a part in that too). So I decided to try and change the subject slightly.
[quote]7thSonofa7thSon wrote:
[quote]ickabodd wrote:
[quote]7thSonofa7thSon wrote:
[quote]ickabodd wrote:
Suicide has always been, and will ever remain, the coward’s way out. End of story.[/quote]
What about Erwin Rommel? The Desert Fox was presented with the choice of committing suicide and retaining his dignity and respect, or deny his involvement with the Hitler assassination, stand a mock trial, and be executed in utter disgrace. It also resulted in his family retaining their honor and state support. Was HE a coward for choosing suicide?[/quote]
Fucking Rommel? Hitler didn’t have the balls to put Rommel on public trial so instead he made him his bitch by persuading him to take his own life in exchange for the safety of his family. Rommel should have accounted for the safety of his family in advance of his participation in a plot to overthrow Hitler and then played his hand instead of folding like a pussy.
Perhaps then his death would have helped the Germans rise up against that madman instead of being buried as a hero of that evil regime. So he wasn’t ‘presented with a choice’ inasmuch as he just failed to plan for the worst case (so much for the brilliant tactician that history venerates).
And how did you come to confuse the OP original post about lost and confused teenagers with the stage of international politics anyway? (I don’t really think Rommel was a pussy btw).
[/quote]
Because this thread degenerated from an attempt to have a reasonable discussion to a battle of YOU!! NO YOU!!! NO YOU!!! (I had a part in that too). So I decided to try and change the subject slightly.[/quote]
No worries 7th Son. I was only having fun. Please take it as such. - EOM
[quote]Iron Dwarf wrote:
Throwing every suicidal person into the “weak pussy attention-whore” category is a grave mistake and disrespectful to those who truly need help. It’s often difficult to find the line between the two so who among you have the right to dismiss it altogether?
Many of us can never know what deep dark depths an anguished soul can fall into with no visible means of climbing out. So until you’re the one down in that abyss, it’s best to keep your toughguy posturing to yourself.[/quote]
So true.
Thing is, though: tough guy posturing only works when alleged toughies band together. 