Thoughts on Evolution

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
241

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]chillain wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:
Simple.

You say “I don’t know”

There’s nothing wrong with that answer. [/quote]

Agreed.

And on the previous page, I claimed that this accounts for the lack of satisfaction that empirical science provides.

(also raj, look up ‘materialism vs dualism’ re: the soul, mind etc - smarter people than us have already have already published much on these topics)
[/quote]

There’s way too little confessed "I don’t know"s going on when it comes to macro-evolution and way too much screaming of “IT’S A FACT!!!”[/quote]

I’m not talking about evolution, there’s mountains of evidence to support micro and macro evolution.

243

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pegasus3 wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]pegasus3 wrote:
Evolution is true. Micro and Macro. There is zero evidence for creationism. Gaps in our knowledge are not a weakness in evolutionary theory. So far, it’s water tight. The old ‘rabbit in the pre-Cambrian’ scenario would disprove it more or less in a single discovery. It hasn’t happened yet, and when you think about what we have found (fossil record is actually a lot better than people think) really it or something similar should have been found. If it is, science will go back to the drawing board.

Hell, even without the fossil record, the evidence is immense.

Gravity is also a theory and people seem pretty happy with that one. I don’t see why Evolution is different. Religion once told us that the earth was the center of the universe, so we know it has got stuff wrong before, why are people so stubborn about the origins of life on the Earth. Are we really meant to believe that the parasites than burrow into the eyes, slowly making the host blind came about through any other mechanism than evolution?

[/quote]

When you post like this ^ from your church it would be nice to see a pic once in awhile.[/quote]

Ha! Cute! So talking about evolution in a thread about evolution is now ‘preaching’!? Okay, cool. We will call it preaching, and the lab or lecture theater is now the church of evolution and we are a belief system…

[/quote]

Yes, and this is how you showed your hand: “Evolution is true. Micro and Macro. There is zero evidence for creationism. Gaps in our knowledge are not a weakness in evolutionary theory. So far, it’s water tight.”

That ^^^ is sheer, unadulterated, unscientific boooooooshit.[/quote]

And so is the belief that dinosaurs walked with Homo sapiens. So is the idea that the Earth is thousands of years old rather than billions. The list of unscientific bullshit is mostly on your side i’m afraid.

I never tried to hide my hand. I believe that evolution is the absolute best method to explain life as we see it today. The ‘scientific evidence’ for creation is largely embarrassing, bastardized science. And the majority of the religious people I know agree with that, it ain’t just us stinking atheists. Personally, I think science should be left out of the creation argument, because if the bible is true then every law of science is fucked anyway, so why try to use it in support of your argument.

Gaps in knowledge are not weaknesses in a theory, nothing unscientific in that statement at all. ‘Water tight’ was kinda silly. The key point in that sentence you quoted is ‘so far’. I am more than willing to ditch evolution if they find a rabbit fossil in the pre cambrian, or they find a t-rex bone the same age as a Homo sapiens etc etc. That is a key difference between our belief systems. You claim to know it all already from a single book that cannot be challenged.

244

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

I’m not talking about evolution, there’s mountains of evidence to support micro and macro evolution.
[/quote]

There are also mountains of evidence to support creation. (Leave micro out of it. We both agree on that)

See Raj, the evidence IS there. But it IS evidence and nothing more. Evidence must be interpreted ESPECIALLY when speaking of the distant unobservable, unexperimentable (is that a word?) past.

For instance the fossil record is often cited as evidence for evolution. And under the confines of that theory it is interpreted to support that theory.

The creation model also cites the fossil record as evidence. But it’s interpreted under the confines of the creation theory.[/quote]

If you want to go over the creation account and why you think there’s good evidence for it, I’d love to hear it.

It’s just a little unnerving when I hear Christians suggest things like dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to throw off humans and such.

245

why is everyone ignoring the obvious presence of aliens supplanting the earth with their spawn, only to arrive hundreds of millennium later to perfect the spawn.

obvious evidence is obvious.

246

[quote]Edgy wrote:
why is everyone ignoring the obvious presence of aliens supplanting the earth with their spawn, only to arrive hundreds of millennium later to perfect the spawn.

obvious evidence is obvious.[/quote]

Of course! It’s so clear. And the fossil record is evidence of the aliens’ botched attempts to create new species. Since of course the aliens placed and engineered every creature here on Earth.

247

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
why is everyone ignoring the obvious presence of aliens supplanting the earth with their spawn, only to arrive hundreds of millennium later to perfect the spawn.

obvious evidence is obvious.[/quote]

Of course! It’s so clear. And the fossil record is evidence of the aliens’ botched attempts to create new species. Since of course the aliens placed and engineered every creature here on Earth.[/quote]

You have to admit that was one hell of a job.

248

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]Fletch1986 wrote:

[quote]Edgy wrote:
why is everyone ignoring the obvious presence of aliens supplanting the earth with their spawn, only to arrive hundreds of millennium later to perfect the spawn.

obvious evidence is obvious.[/quote]

Of course! It’s so clear. And the fossil record is evidence of the aliens’ botched attempts to create new species. Since of course the aliens placed and engineered every creature here on Earth.[/quote]

You have to admit that was one hell of a job.[/quote]

finally we can have an honest, civilized discussion on the creation of the species.

without all that bothersome science and religion BS.

252

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

…It’s just a little unnerving when I hear Christians suggest things like dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to throw off humans and such.
[/quote]

Then you can let someone else do your unnerving because I have never stated anything like that nor would I.[/quote]

I didn’t mean you specifically, but there are Christians who believe this.

253

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

If you want to go over the creation account and why you think there’s good evidence for it, I’d love to hear it.

[/quote]

Google is your buddy.
[/quote]

I have.

I meant YOUR take. If you don’t want to that’s fine.

254

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

If you want to go over the creation account and why you think there’s good evidence for it, I’d love to hear it.

[/quote]

Google is your buddy.
[/quote]

I have.

I meant YOUR take. If you don’t want to that’s fine.[/quote]

Why would he want to?

Criticizing scientific findings without even disclosing what your definitions are that they do not live up to is obviously the only way to advance human knowledge.

257

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

…It’s just a little unnerving when I hear Christians suggest things like dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to throw off humans and such.
[/quote]

Then you can let someone else do your unnerving because I have never stated anything like that nor would I.[/quote]

I didn’t mean you specifically, but there are Christians who believe this.[/quote]

That makes them ignorant.

And those who say macro evolution IS A FACT!!! are ignorant as well.[/quote]

Really?

What do you base that on?

What is this “macroevolution” you say cannot happen?

I am dying to know.

259

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

…It’s just a little unnerving when I hear Christians suggest things like dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to throw off humans and such.
[/quote]

Then you can let someone else do your unnerving because I have never stated anything like that nor would I.[/quote]

I didn’t mean you specifically, but there are Christians who believe this.[/quote]

That makes them ignorant.

And those who say macro evolution IS A FACT!!! are ignorant as well.[/quote]

Need I remind you that the University of British Columbia, Indiana University and Duke University have recently published a study showing speciation occurring over a single generation? Links are on page 2 if anyone else hasn’t seen yet. Macro evolution is every bit the fact that micro evolution is. Even without this study, mutations building up over time will eventually result in speciation anyway.

260

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

[quote]pushharder wrote:

[quote]therajraj wrote:

…It’s just a little unnerving when I hear Christians suggest things like dinosaur bones were planted by the devil to throw off humans and such.
[/quote]

Then you can let someone else do your unnerving because I have never stated anything like that nor would I.[/quote]

I didn’t mean you specifically, but there are Christians who believe this.[/quote]

That makes them ignorant.

And those who say macro evolution IS A FACT!!! are ignorant as well.[/quote]

Really?

What do you base that on?

What is this “macroevolution” you say cannot happen?

I am dying to know. [/quote]

What is this macroevolution you say can?

I am dying to know.

XXXOOO[/quote]

Macroevolution defined as a change in genome at or above the species level.

Species: Hard, because there is a bewildering number of ways how you can change genetic information, but thankfully, it is quite clear how it is done in vertebrates, which includes mammals.

Since all these animals reproduce sexually, reproductive isolation is a key concept. Once two animal no longer can produce fertile offspring of both sexes, they are, for all intends and purposes, a new species.

See, that was not so hard.

Now lets hear yours.