These are apocryphal anecdotes. When I served in the USMC we used to get emails like these all the time. I have seen the carrier group story before.
[quote]Hagar wrote:
A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S., English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English.’ He then asked, ‘Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?’ Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied 'Maybe it’s because the Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn’t have to speak German.
You could have heard a pin drop.
[/quote]
Hahaha, solid.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
I’m sure he would. So what? That’s an internal problem of Japanese politics and democracy that doesn’t change the fact that those democratically elected to decide Japanese foreign policy support the US presence.[/quote]
Well, Okinawa has only really been a part of the Japanese nation since the 1970s. Before then they were a vassal kingdom of China, then a Japanese colony, an American military posession, and now a Japanese prefecture.
The governor of Okinawa has repeatedly requested that the American military presence be reduced or removed, partly in order to reduce the number of Okinawan women and girls who are raped by American servicemen. His requests have, unsurprisingly, been ignored by Tokyo.
The US has bases in Okinawa ostensibly to keep it from being invaded by China. Given Okinawa’s history, perhaps the Okinawans don’t think that being invaded and occupied by China would be such a bad thing.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
The US has bases in Okinawa ostensibly to keep it from being invaded by China. Given Okinawa’s history, perhaps the Okinawans don’t think that being invaded and occupied by China would be such a bad thing.[/quote]
So their women could be raped by the male dominated main land Chinese?
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Chushin wrote:
I’m sure he would. So what? That’s an internal problem of Japanese politics and democracy that doesn’t change the fact that those democratically elected to decide Japanese foreign policy support the US presence.
Well, Okinawa has only really been a part of the Japanese nation since the 1970s. Before then they were a vassal kingdom of China, then a Japanese colony, an American military posession, and now a Japanese prefecture.
The governor of Okinawa has repeatedly requested that the American military presence be reduced or removed, partly in order to reduce the number of Okinawan women and girls who are raped by American servicemen. His requests have, unsurprisingly, been ignored by Tokyo.[/quote]
That is some serious political posturing though. Rape by Americans isn’t exactly epidemic, it just catches the headlines when it happens. But yeah, I would say our hosts are lukewarm at best when it comes to our presence in Oki. That said, we keep that economy running.
Oki would be fine economically without us of course, but they would be much less prosperous. I’d say the main reason from what I’ve seen anyhow, is that Tokyo ignores Oki because they don’t care. Japanese don’t consider Okinawans Japanese and neither do the Okinawans. I accidently called an Okinawan a Japanese once…bad move.
[quote]
The US has bases in Okinawa ostensibly to keep it from being invaded by China. Given Okinawa’s history, perhaps the Okinawans don’t think that being invaded and occupied by China would be such a bad thing.[/quote]
Umm yeah, there’s been talk of moving all the US bases to Guam, but that’s been in the works for decades. It won’t happen anytime soon. I’m not trying to justify the fact that we’re in Okinawa, but their behavior is a bit silly. It’s kind of like a teenager reacts towards their parents. The kid talks a good game about how bad daddy is, but he still comes home and eats dad’s food. It sounds nice to have the US out, but the Okinawans don’t really want that.
mike
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Again (as you know), we are in Japan with the permission of the Japanese government. If Okinawa has a problem, it’s with the rest of Japan and the elected officials responsible for foreign policy, not the US. [/quote]
What a slippery answer. I could swear you are a politician, Chushin, though according to my knowledge the only foreign-born politician in Japan is not of american origin.
The okinawans are a minority and not in a position to change Japans foreign policy, so the existence of US army bases is not entirely unproblematic.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Given that my area of research is a certain aspect of Okinawan culture, I’m very much aware of Okinawa’s history. [/quote]
Oh, I figured as much. The mitsu tomoe avatar gave you away. 
When you return territory, you normally remove your troops. Which is why the British kept no military bases in Hong Kong when they returned the territory to China.
I think it’s the other way around. The Japanese government is in Okinawa with the permission of the US.
Probably true. It’s in Tokyo’s best political interests, for now, for the bases to be there. Whatever problems Okinawa has pale in comparison to those interests.
Then again, no elementary school students near Yokota or Camp Zama have been kidnapped and raped. If that ever happens, I expect that the elected officials in Tokyo will make it their problem.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Slippery? What in the world are you talking about? Your comments smack of a real lack of knowledge about Japan and Okinawa (not to mention an anti-US bias).[/quote]
I’m not an expert, I have only read Sansom’s History of Japan -books and some others by other authors, mainly about culture, budo and religion. I sincerely thought that would suffice as a background.
I’m anti-US? What do you think, is it intentional or unitentional on my part to express biased opinions about the US?
I think you are talking about something that isn’t in my post in the first place, it’s a discourse that is taking place in your own mind.
[quote]
“The Okinawans” these days also include many “Yamato” Japanese (not to mention the fact that “pure Okinawans” --whatever that is – are increasingly harder to find). And Okinawa is a prefecture of Japan, not some “territory” or “protectorate” or whatever you are thinking. Saying they are “a minority and not in a position to change Japans foreign policy” makes as much sense as saying the people of Alaska “are a minority and can’t control US policy.” Of course they (alone) can’t; they are but one part, a “state” if you will, of Japan![/quote]
I’m sure you know more about Okinawa than I do since you research some aspects of it, but are you denying that many Okinawans don’t like the situation? There is no resentment at all? You definitely sound like a politician to me.
I say that the existence of the bases is not unproblematic and you turn it to me wanting to blame something on the US. So are you of the opinion that it is unproblematic?
Let me ask you, are you a computer wizard? It seems to me that you only want to see a black box and are only interested in what it spouts out. The box being in this case Japan and it’s prefectorate Okinawa. Are you not a bit interested in what takes place inside of the box? Why are you studying okinawan culture? Why are you taking the role of a governmental official spokesperson?
[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
Rape by Americans isn’t exactly epidemic, it just catches the headlines when it happens. [/quote]
Should it not? Should it be censored?
Anyway, I could go on about Iwakuni or Okinawa in Japan, the Czech and Polish opposition to the bases, the weakening of Prodi because of the Vicenza base, Correa’s landslide victory thanks to his fierce opposition to US bases, the role the US bases in Saudi Arabia played in strengthening a blossoming terrorist group, the growing tension between Moscow and Washington because of US bases, etc, but there’s no point in stating the obvious. It’s more fun watching people compete over who is more patriotic, and Chunsin labeling every European an “anti-American”.
Somehow, I think your “teenager-daddy” analogy takes the cake. You may not realize but it’s implications are far reaching. You’re essentially rehashing old colonialist arguments.
[quote]kaaleppi wrote:
…
I’m sure you know more about Okinawa than I do since you research some aspects of it, but are you denying that many Okinawans don’t like the situation? There is no resentment at all? …[/quote]
There are plenty of cranks in all countries. America is full of racist assholes that don’t like black people.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
The US has bases in Okinawa ostensibly to keep it from being invaded by China. Given Okinawa’s history, perhaps the Okinawans don’t think that being invaded and occupied by China would be such a bad thing.[/quote]
Wow, Varq TROLLING!! How cool!!
Maybe the Chinese might do a little Nanking in reverse on Okinawa. Think the Okinawan’s might want the Marines back then?
Given the history of Japan, I really can’t see how you stand living with those people — murderous thugs tamed by MacArthur. Watch 'em turn back into a militaristic murderous society once we leave. Maybe that’s why you want to move to Alaska?
[quote]Wreckless wrote:
You’re a proud American because of lies? I find that rather strange.
The US has military bases all over the world. I believe it has a rather big base on Cuba that has been in the news recently.
While the US did indeed sent an aircraft carrier into the region to help the tsunami victims, help flooded in from all over the world. There is no evidence for this conversation.
There’s also no evidence for the conversation at the naval conference. Where was the conference exactly? And when did it take place.
Oh boy, you Yanks are so gullible.[/quote]
And what good has you or your homeland done for anybody? Oh yea, that’s right, nothing.
[quote]Chushin wrote:
Look, if I misread the tenor of your post, I apologize. It’s pretty hard to stay “non-defensive” around here when every other post by a non-American is blaming the world’s ills on us. And you DID insult me by calling me “a politician” with a “slippery” statement, did you not?
As to your point, OF COURSE many Okinawans (and Poles, and Germans, and …) are unhappy about the bases. I’m not so happy about them, either!
But my point is that the bases are NOT there against the will of the DEMOCRATICALLY-ELECTED governments. The whole discussion began because Wreckless (is HE anti-American?) implied that all the US bases around the world were “occupations” of war-won lands. The big, bad US refusing to give back land…
What a country chooses to do vis-a-vis the US is THEIR responsiblity. OURS is to do what is best for the US.
PS What sort of budo do you do?[/quote]
Of course I did insult you, this is an internet forum so it is part of the mores to insult people
I’m not happy with the term anti-american, but yes, I think Wreckless do express anti-american sentiments in the sence you are implying.
I did aikido actively for a couple of years, but haven’t done it for years.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Varqanir wrote:
The US has bases in Okinawa ostensibly to keep it from being invaded by China. Given Okinawa’s history, perhaps the Okinawans don’t think that being invaded and occupied by China would be such a bad thing.
Wow, Varq TROLLING!! How cool!!
[/quote]HH, you must learn the difference between “trolling” and “playing devil’s advocate.” ;)[quote]
Given the history of Japan, I really can’t see how you stand living with those people — murderous thugs tamed by MacArthur. Watch 'em turn back into a militaristic murderous society once we leave. Maybe that’s why you want to move to Alaska?[/quote]
Not so much that I’m worried about the Japanese turning into a militaristic society anytime soon (unless former Prime Minister Abe somehow seizes power again), but indeed, my tolerance for “those people” is wearing a little thin of late.
Plus, it would be nice to be far away if the North Koreans ever start lobbing missiles at us. That day may come soon.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
You’re a proud American because of lies? I find that rather strange.
The US has military bases all over the world. I believe it has a rather big base on Cuba that has been in the news recently.
While the US did indeed sent an aircraft carrier into the region to help the tsunami victims, help flooded in from all over the world. There is no evidence for this conversation.
There’s also no evidence for the conversation at the naval conference. Where was the conference exactly? And when did it take place.
Oh boy, you Yanks are so gullible.
And what good has you or your homeland done for anybody? Oh yea, that’s right, nothing.[/quote]
Belgium makes some damn good beer.