[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
the fetus is human and I proved that with size, level of development, environment and degree of dependency. Where did you refute that?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…how is that different from what you’re doing exactly? I never said a fetus is not human. What else can it be. A dog?
[/quote]
[/quote]
…you give your opinion aswell, kneedragger. Please pay attention for once…
So you admit they are human. What gives YOU the right to kill them?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
. . . . I never said a fetus is not human . . . .
[/quote]
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
So you admit they are human. What gives YOU the right to kill them?
[quote]ephrem wrote:
. . . . I never said a fetus is not human . . . .
[/quote]
[/quote]
…i’ve never killed a fetus, ever. What gave you that idea?
I never made that claim. Yet, you argue FOR abortion. If you agree a fetus is human, then with abortion you kill a fetus/human.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…i’ve never killed a fetus, ever. What gave you that idea?[/quote]
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
I never made that claim. Yet, you argue FOR abortion. If you agree a fetus is human, then with abortion you kill a fetus/human.
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…i’ve never killed a fetus, ever. What gave you that idea?[/quote]
[/quote]
…are you insane? Honestly. Are you?
I don’t need to look myself in the mirror and wonder ‘What the fuck was I thinking?!?’
[quote]ephrem wrote:
…are you insane? Honestly. Are you?[/quote]
Did you know a placenta is a true clone of a baby?
Fun fact. There are a lot more of these facts that throw rather large spanners in your arguments.
The embryological continuum that seamlessly joins a non-sentient fetus to a sentient adult is analogous to the evolutionary continuum that joins humans to other species. If to you it seems like the embryological continuum is more seamless, this is because of the accident of extinction. Fundamental principles of ethics aren’t dependent on accidental contingencies like extinction.
Science isn’t going to tell you whether it is right or wrong. What it will do is give you the facts. It will warn you that you may be guilty of inconsistency (which we all do, to be fair) when you say abortion is murder but perhaps might say killing a chimpanzee (or any animal really) is not (that’s an example btw, so none of this “oh but where did I post that” bull shit please). You can’t have it both ways.
Controversial Ga. billboards link abortion, race
ATLANTA â?? The message on dozens of billboards across the city is provocative: Black children are an “endangered species.”
The eyebrow-raising ads featuring a young black child are an effort by the anti-abortion movement to use race to rally support within the black community. The reaction from black leaders has been mixed, but the “Too Many Aborted” campaign, which so far is unique to only Georgia, is drawing support from other anti-abortion groups across the country.
“It’s ingenious,” said the Rev. Johnny Hunter, national director of the Life Education and Resource Network, a North Carolina-based anti-abortion group aimed at African-Americans that operates in 27 states. “This campaign is in your face, and nobody can ignore it.”
The billboards went up last week in Atlanta and urge black women to “get outraged.”
The effort is sponsored by Georgia Right to Life, which also is pushing legislation that aims to ban abortions based on race.
Black women accounted for the majority of abortions in Georgia in 2006, even though blacks make up just a third of state population, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
Full Story:
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hVPN2jSeFwagJEk9CTRZQpPl6NjgD9DS3HLO0
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Did you know a placenta is a true clone of a baby?
Fun fact. There are a lot more of these facts that throw rather large spanners in your arguments.
The embryological continuum that seamlessly joins a non-sentient fetus to a sentient adult is analogous to the evolutionary continuum that joins humans to other species. If to you it seems like the embryological continuum is more seamless, this is because of the accident of extinction. Fundamental principles of ethics aren’t dependent on accidental contingencies like extinction.
Science isn’t going to tell you whether it is right or wrong. What it will do is give you the facts. It will warn you that you may be guilty of inconsistency (which we all do, to be fair) when you say abortion is murder but perhaps might say killing a chimpanzee (or any animal really) is not (that’s an example btw, so none of this “oh but where did I post that” bull shit please). You can’t have it both ways.
[/quote]
Nope. You can only murder a person.
I hope to be as eloquent as Scott Klusendorf some day! He came to UI last fall and he gave his speech to ~30 students. I was hoping for a pro-choice student to challenge Scott, yet we don’t all get what we want in the short term ; ) 5:13 is the start of my favorite part and goes for about ~26 seconds. Keep fighting the GOOD fight Scott!!
KJ already beat me to it!! He is right; you can not murder an animal. You can be cruel and kill them inhumanely. Murder is the unlawful killing of another HUMAN BEING. Hence why abortion is morally WRONG!! BTW that’s a wiki definition.
A placenta is NOT a clone of a baby!! I have no idea where you got your science, where ever it came from, the source is not reputable. Almost all cells go through a process of cloning. As a fetus the cells grow in size/number, while a fetus gains the traits needed for life in the ‘outside world’ and to regenerate cells as they mature. Cells clone themselves all throughout growth into adult hood. YOU even have cells that were cloned.
A placenta contains cells of the baby AND mother. This would be because the placenta is an organ that connects the developing fetus to the uterine wall of the mother to allow nutrient uptake. Gas exchange and waste are transferred here too. Did you know the maternal/fetal blood NEVER mix? Never mix at all! See I can find ‘fun facts’ that are TRUE and relate to the subject. It’s awesome when your ‘spanner’ argument is completely wrong. On the internet that is referred to as an ULTIMATE FAIL.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Did you know a placenta is a true clone of a baby?
Fun fact. There are a lot more of these facts that throw rather large spanners in your arguments. [/quote]
Again, not sure where your science came from? Doctors now agree that babies will not gain sentience until ~2 or 3 months. Abortion is legal, then can we kill newborns as well?
Memory doesn’t happen until 21-28 months. Here is a quote from a recent study, it was found that “Sometime between [9] and 17 months, neurons in the pre-frontal cortex of the brain connect to many other parts of the brain, and another area of the brain, the hippocampus, is becoming fully functional, the study found.” BTW that is from Nature 419, 896 (2002). It is the British version if you care shtug
I will do more research to find out about the specific quality of sentience. Just give me your sources to read over while I find more of mine.
Your right!! Science won’t tell you whether something is inherently wrong, that’s were our MORAL code comes into play. You used the phrases “killing a chimpanzee” and “abortion is murder”. The use of two different verbs, for two separate events. You even recognize the events are different. Please don’t even try and say that I ‘cut and pasted’ your argument.
Kneedragger, no offense… but are you retarded? You quoted SELECTIVELY, missing out key parts of the sentence.
Same with Katzen and his reading abilities.
Fucking read the post, and if you don’t understand the terms I use, then ASK.
Makavali, I stopped arguing with Kneedragger many a post ago for that exact reason. I was just nicer about it - lol.
[quote]Deorum wrote:
Makavali, I stopped arguing with Kneedragger many a post ago for that exact reason. I was just nicer about it - lol.[/quote]
I have no patience for fools.
Here’s some comedy to lighten the mood.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
Same with Katzen and his reading abilities.
[/quote]
I understand your post perfectly; it’s not my fault that you seem to have a muddled idea of what a person is.
and HOW is this cutting and pasting your post? YOU use 2 different verbs. Argue against yourself, I didn’t change a word!!
[quote]Makavali wrote:
" . . . . abortion is murder but perhaps might say killing a chimpanzee . . . ."
[/quote]
does it make sense to say: ‘I was “murdering a chimpanzee” to make myself feel better’? I wouldn’t use those words even if I did kill a chimp.
Say you set a mouse trap, will you tell people ‘Yeah I murdered the mouse because they were eating my flour’? No, if you did people would think you didn’t speak English very well.
READ your own post!!
[quote]kneedragger79 wrote:
and HOW is this cutting and pasting your post? YOU use 2 different verbs. Argue against yourself, I didn’t change a word!!
[quote]Makavali wrote:
" . . . . abortion is murder but perhaps might say killing a chimpanzee . . . ."
[/quote]
[/quote]
What the hell? Are you seriously this retarded?
abortion is murder but perhaps might say killing a chimpanzee IS NOT
Even adding on those two fucking words adds a truckload of clarity to that. Stop being such a fucking retarded dishonest little prick.
By the way, the words ‘you say’ were taken out!
here is the original sentence - “It will warn you that you may be guilty of inconsistency when you say abortion is murder but perhaps might say killing a chimpanzee is not.”
I took out everything in (parenthesis) to clear up the sentence, helped a little.
YOU were speaking like it was ME? Am I correct? Yet how would the sentence be worded differently?
I’m trying to get you to realize the language doesn’t fit other ways.
[quote]Makavali wrote:
What the hell? Are you seriously this retarded?
abortion is murder but perhaps might say killing a chimpanzee IS NOT
Even adding on those two fucking words adds a truckload of clarity to that. Stop being such a fucking retarded dishonest little prick.[/quote]
Pregnant woman jailed for having thought about abortion
http://digitaljournal.com/article/287684#tab=comments&sc=0&contribute=&local=
