This Day in History

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
So, if there is only an insignificant minority of Muslims extremists in Islamic nations/regions–where women apostates, and religious minorities are horribly oppressed–does that make a significant majority of Muslims in those places enabling cowards?

Which countries do you have in mind? Name some and we can discuss the situation in those.

And let it be noted that women are not a minority.

A starter for you on Women’s issues. Let me know if you can’t find anything on religious minorites and apostates being harrassed, oppressed, and/or brutalized by state or public at large. Should be easy enough though. Lots of reports, and lots of different women’s and religious rights groups keep tabs on these abuses.

The human rights of women throughout the Middle East and North Africa are systematically denied by each of the countries in the region, despite the diversity of their political systems. Many governments routinely suppress civil society by restricting freedom of the press, expression, and assembly. These restrictions adversely affect both men and women; however, women are subject to a host of additional gender-specific human rights violations.

Did you suddenly lose the ability to comprehend text?[/quote]

Nope. I don’t feel like doing a nation by nation breakdown about women, apostates, and religious minorities. Not when their plight in Middle-Eastern/Islamic nations are well documented by human, women’s, and religious rights organizations. So, I elected to give you a starter link to a general bit about the treatment of women. You should be capable of branching out from there.

42

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Nope. I don’t feel like doing a nation by nation breakdown about women, apostates, and religious minorities. Not when their plight in Middle-Eastern/Islamic nations are well documented by human, women’s, and religious rights organizations. So, I elected to give you a starter link to a general bit about the treatment of women. You should be capable of branching out from there.[/quote]

So, you refuse to engage in an intelligent debate and choose to grasp at strawmen instead?

Carry on.

43

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Nope. I don’t feel like doing a nation by nation breakdown about women, apostates, and religious minorities. Not when their plight in Middle-Eastern/Islamic nations are well documented by human, women’s, and religious rights organizations. So, I elected to give you a starter link to a general bit about the treatment of women. You should be capable of branching out from there.

So, you refuse to engage in an intelligent debate and choose to grasp at strawmen instead?

Carry on.[/quote]

What strawmen? I could provide direct links to religious, human, and women’s rights reports if you’re truly ignorant of the situation women, apostates, and religious minorities are facing. First, I need to know if you are, in fact, disputing such. If not, what’s your problem? Let me know.

Edit: By the way, what debate? Is plight of these groups even debateable? It’s pretty damn well documented by a host of right’s groups at this point. Again, if I really have to link various reports for you, let me know. However, the subject matter isn’t by any means obscure, and I’m under the impression you’re knowledgeable about internet use (if that’s not the case, I suppose I could share some more links, if you so request).

44

[quote]Sloth wrote:
What strawmen? I could provide direct links to religious, human rights, and human rights reports if you’re truly ignorant of the situation women, apostates, and religious minorities are facing. First, I need to know if you are, in fact, disputing such. If not, what’s your problem? Let me know.[/quote]

You made a very broad claim which I didn’t challenge. I asked you a clear and direct question to get into the specifics. You completely ignored it and launched into an argument with yourself. That would have been excusable if my post was in any way ambiguous. But it was crystal-clear. Which brought me to questioning your willingness to engage in an “intelligent debate”.

Also, I believe most members here have a problem with generalizations. So it’s not exactly just “my problem”.

45

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
What strawmen? I could provide direct links to religious, human rights, and human rights reports if you’re truly ignorant of the situation women, apostates, and religious minorities are facing. First, I need to know if you are, in fact, disputing such. If not, what’s your problem? Let me know.

You made a very broad claim which I didn’t challenge. I asked you a clear and direct question to get into the specifics. You completely ignored it and launched into an argument with yourself. That would have been excusable if my post was in any way ambiguous. But it was crystal-clear. Which brought me to questioning your willingness to engage in an “intelligent debate”.

Also, I believe most members here have a problem with generalizations. So it’s not exactly just “my problem”.[/quote]

Um, I responded with an article from HRW, concerning the second class status of women in the mid-east…I stepped up and backed a claim. Now, one more time, which claim are you disputing? The treatment of apostates? The treatment of religious minorities? What exactly, are you trying to dispute. What is it, Lixy, that you don’t believe. Again, I’ve already backed up my claim concerning womens’ rights in the Mid-East. What patch of water must I lead you to, and force you to drink?

46

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Um, I responded with an article from HRW, concerning the second class status of women in the mid-east…I stepped up and backed a claim. Now, one more time, which claim are you disputing? The treatment of apostates? The treatment of religious minorities? What exactly, are you trying to dispute. What is it, Lixy, that you don’t believe. Again, I’ve already backed up my claim concerning womens’ rights in the Mid-East. What patch of water must I lead you to, and force you to drink?[/quote]

You are being particularly slow today.

I dispute your misrepresentation of reality by hasty generalizations, stock oversimplifications, and cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

And since you seem unable to follow a train of thoughts, allow me to quote the way it all started.

You wrote:
“So, if there is only an insignificant minority of Muslims extremists in Islamic nations/regions–where women apostates, and religious minorities are horribly oppressed–does that make a significant majority of Muslims in those places enabling cowards?”

To which I replied:

“Which countries do you have in mind? Name some and we can discuss the situation in those.”

How bloody hard is that to understand?

47

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Um, I responded with an article from HRW, concerning the second class status of women in the mid-east…I stepped up and backed a claim. Now, one more time, which claim are you disputing? The treatment of apostates? The treatment of religious minorities? What exactly, are you trying to dispute. What is it, Lixy, that you don’t believe. Again, I’ve already backed up my claim concerning womens’ rights in the Mid-East. What patch of water must I lead you to, and force you to drink?

You are being particularly slow today.

I dispute your misrepresentation of reality by hasty generalizations, stock oversimplifications, and cum hoc ergo propter hoc.

And since you seem unable to follow a train of thoughts, allow me to quote the way it all started.

You wrote:
“So, if there is only an insignificant minority of Muslims extremists in Islamic nations/regions–where women apostates, and religious minorities are horribly oppressed–does that make a significant majority of Muslims in those places enabling cowards?”

To which I replied:

“Which countries do you have in mind? Name some and we can discuss the situation in those.”

How bloody hard is that to understand?[/quote]

And, I explained I wouldn’t allow myself to be mired down in a nation by nation analysis of how each treats the previously mentioned groups of people. As an example, to back my claim about the Mid-East, I linked an HRW summary about the mistreatment of Women THROUGHOUT THE MID-EAST. If you need further education about how each and every nation treats women (or any other group) there are specific reports on HRW’s site. Not to mention the number of other Right’s groups that collect and report such data. What the hell is the point of doing 3-4 pages of discussion, per nation of the Mid-East, when I have already demonstrated the horrible treatment of women alone, THROUGHOUT THE MID-EAST.

You’re attempting to paint my responses as daft, when I’m willing to bet folks who opened my link are waiting for your comments about why THROUGHOUT THE MID-EAST, that HUGE, VAST, IMMENSE, majority of moderate muslims aren’t dragging that insignificant, tiny, miniscule, portion of muslims who happen to misunderstand Islam, out into the streets. Stop deflecting.

48

[quote]Sloth wrote:
…
[/quote]

You’re confirming my initial impression that you aren’t interested in having a debate about the “enabling cowards”, and that your question was rhetorical in nature.

Henceforth, my “carry on” stands.

49

[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
…

You’re confirming my initial impression that you aren’t interested in having a debate about the “enabling cowards”, and that your question was rhetorical in nature.

Henceforth, my “carry on” stands.[/quote]

Let it be noted that as an example, I provide a link backing up my claim about how women are treated. Not a word. Even after inviting him to explain why that VAST majority of moderate, non-extreme, muslims don’t throw down the tiny portion of muslims who oppress and even kill women (which goes right back to my original question Lixy wanted to jump on). I offered to provide links about the treatment of other groups I had mentioned, if he chose to deny that they too are badly mistreated in a widespread manner. Nothing.

50

[quote]lixy wrote:
No, you clod! The targets included a 5-stars international hotel, a restaurant of the Italian consulate and a Jewish graveyard and a bar notorious for prostitution.

[/quote]

They were obviously striking out at the Zionist’s interests. Seems like you should be happy, just like when a car bomb blows up in a market in Baghdad.