Thinking About Your Race?

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
41

[quote]Professor X wrote:
That is because if they can work hard at explaining away the possibility that race is still a legitimate factor to many people in this country IF YOU AREN’T WHITE, then they can continue to act as if everyone who says it is somehow is delusional and crying out as a victim who can’t help themselves.

That would also be why even attempting to get that point across is pointless.

That is how every debate has gone and will go. It must feel great to walk through life where your race is a non-issue until someone else brings it up in regards to themselves.
[/quote]

Well Prof., Is there a point at which you would agree that suffering or neglect does in fact cross racial boundaries and becomes an issue of the human condition?

You may not agree, but from what I’ve seen and experienced, anywhere that there is despair, poverty, and a resignation of hope, there will also be violent abuse and mistreatment of others, and crimes carried out to the mantra of “I’m gonna get Mine.”.

These acts aren’t sequestered simply to one race. What did the guy look like in the article you posted just recently? The one where the man stomped the head of his baby?

Do you think he was just mosseying along through life at a juanting clip toward success? Woke up one day with a checklist-
Graduated highschool? Check
Finished College? Check
Landed a wonderfull job in middle management? Check
Stomp babys head in? Oh! almost forgot! Gonna have to get right on that!

The one where it was questioned as to whether or not he even has the right to a trial?

To make mistreatment of others into solely a racial issue is about as simple minded and ignorant as thinking that all chinese are mathematical wizard/astrphysicists, all white people are born rich and pampered, and all blacks are born eating fried chicken and waving a 9mm.

To me, race is not an issue. When it comes to getting fucked, the fucker doesn’t care who you are. If he did, he wouldn’t be a fucker, would he(or she)?

42

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:

Well Prof., Is there a point at which you would agree that suffering or neglect does in fact cross racial boundaries and becomes an issue of the human condition?[/quote]

No one has denied that. What sane person would claim that suffering is only had by those of a certain race? Why even ask the question as if that has been implied anywhere?

[quote]
You may not agree, but from what I’ve seen and experienced, anywhere that there is despair, poverty, and a resignation of hope, there will also be violent abuse and mistreatment of others, and crimes carried out to the mantra of “I’m gonna get Mine.”. [/quote]

Like Congress?

[quote]

These acts aren’t sequestered simply to one race. What did the guy look like in the article you posted just recently? The one where the man stomped the head of his baby?[/quote]

Are you teaching me? Is this the lesson for today? That white people kill too? I think the FBI is the one who “racially profiled” you as being serial killers if you happen to be between the ages of 20 and 40.

[quote]
Do you think he was just mosseying along through life at a juanting clip toward success? Woke up one day with a checklist-
Graduated highschool? Check
Finished College? Check
Landed a wonderfull job in middle management? Check
Stomp babys head in? Oh! almost forgot! Gonna have to get right on that!

The one where it was questioned as to whether or not he even has the right to a trial?

To make mistreatment of others into solely a racial issue is about as simple minded and ignorant as thinking that all chinese are mathematical wizard/astrphysicists, all white people are born rich and pampered, and all blacks are born eating fried chicken and waving a 9mm.[/quote]

Who has made mistreatment of others “solely a racial issue”? How about you actually argue what has been stated?

You’re white and male. I think we have already identified that it is not an issue to you.

Thanks for sharing.

43

[quote]CC wrote:
Well, as most threads do around here, this thread has completely taken a turn for the worst into a steaming pile of shit. I should never have included those pieces of information before asking the real question I wanted to get to. Contrary to tedro’s belief, however, I did not include them in this thread with any sort of hidden agenda. I just mentioned them because I thought they were interesting.

I had hoped that people would discuss the “thinking about your race” issue, but instead everyone continues to focus on the damn grocery store discussion.[/quote]

There was no need to look for a hidden agenda, it was all right there, and it all tied into the “thinking about your race” issue. I would like to see that same question asked to a group of wealthy black people, and then at a separate time to a group of poor black people. And I don’t simply mean how often do you think about race in terms of your heritage and culture, I mean how often you think of race being an issue in your every day life.

44

[quote]Professor X wrote:

You’re white and male. I think we have already identified that it is not an issue to you.

Thanks for sharing.[/quote]

And you are black and male. Why are you unable to respond with anything other than sarcasm and a dismissal once it gets stripped down to a basic human condition?

No longer special?

45

[quote]Professor X wrote:
Who has made mistreatment of others “solely a racial issue”? How about you actually argue what has been stated?

[quote]

Dr. Troutman, of the origional post.

46

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Professor X wrote:

You’re white and male. I think we have already identified that it is not an issue to you.

Thanks for sharing.

And you are black and male. Why are you unable to respond with anything other than sarcasm and a dismissal once it gets stripped down to a basic human condition?

No longer special?

[/quote]

I did answer you. That wasn’t sarcasm. Unless you are claiming racist acts should never be identified as such and should now and historically be labeled “acts against humans”, then what is your point? Hitler? He didn’t commit any racist or cultural acts of horror…he just hated people. There is no point in identifying that whole “Jewish thang”, now is there?

Is that your point? That no one should identify racist acts? if that is your point, why do you believe this and are you claiming that racism is such a non-issue that no one should have taken any actions against it specifically in the past or right now?

47

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7855373445778571103

48

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
Who has made mistreatment of others “solely a racial issue”? How about you actually argue what has been stated?

Dr. Troutman, of the origional post.

[/quote]

I’m sorry, please QUOTE the part where he claimed that mistreatment of others was “solely a racial issue”.

I’ll wait.

but not for long.

49

[quote]tedro wrote:
CC wrote:
Well, as most threads do around here, this thread has completely taken a turn for the worst into a steaming pile of shit. I should never have included those pieces of information before asking the real question I wanted to get to. Contrary to tedro’s belief, however, I did not include them in this thread with any sort of hidden agenda. I just mentioned them because I thought they were interesting.

I had hoped that people would discuss the “thinking about your race” issue, but instead everyone continues to focus on the damn grocery store discussion.

There was no need to look for a hidden agenda, it was all right there, and it all tied into the “thinking about your race” issue. I would like to see that same question asked to a group of wealthy black people, and then at a separate time to a group of poor black people. And I don’t simply mean how often do you think about race in terms of your heritage and culture, I mean how often you think of race being an issue in your every day life.[/quote]

If you think the answers would be that drastically different, then you aren’t thinking clearly. I didn’t grow up “poor” (more like middle class considering my parents were the only ones on the block with college educations…hell, the entire neighborhood), but I was far from even where I am now as far as economic class. That hasn’t changed my perspective.

50

[quote]

One of the staggering facts Dr. Troutman gave us was that African-Americans suffer an average of 83,000 excess deaths per year (i.e. deaths that, but for negligence or other “non-sufficient” reasons, should not have happened). Over the last 40 years that has come to around 3.3 million total deaths. Another sad fact: studies have shown that the grocery stores on the west end of Louisville, which is predominantly a minority area, receives produce and other foods that are not as fresh as the stores on the east end.

[/qoute]
On Hitler- Do you think it was only the jews he was insane about?

I’m pretty sure a fruitcake like him would have taken out his insanity on who ever was convenient. At that time and that place, it just happened to be jews. Do you think he would have been different if the population he blamed for the problems in Germany were immigrants from India or China?
My understanding of the Holocaust is that the jews were Hitlers scapegoat, an easy and convenient target.

And as for the rest of your ramblings, It doesn’t matter.

You read what you like whether it is written or not.

Have fun with that.

51

[quote]Professor X wrote:
While you may argue that it has to do with social class, you would have to be pretty blind to act as if there aren’t drastically larger numbers of minorities being effected by it.

.[/quote]

So what is Prof.?

You don’t like arguing the social aspect of it, you seem offended when it comes to the racial aspect of it, and you disregard that mistreatment of people is a basic function of the human experience.

Are we to believe that your opinion is the only one here that is valid?

52

[quote]tedro wrote:
I would like to see that same question asked to a group of wealthy black people, and then at a separate time to a group of poor black people. And I don’t simply mean how often do you think about race in terms of your heritage and culture, I mean how often you think of race being an issue in your every day life.[/quote]

Not all of the African-Americans who attended the presentation and raised their hands during the last of Dr. Troutman’s series of questions (the “everyday” part) were “poor black people” (although I guess that would depend on your determination of what qualifies someone as belonging to said group). In fact, I don’t know if there were any present; not by my measure, anyway.

Dr. Troutman himself also raised his hand. He is about as accomplished as a person can be, academically, professionally and financially.

So, if you’re implying that the second group in your hypothetical situation would be the only one in which a majority of the people asked would raise their hands, well…you’re wrong in at least one case.

53

[quote]CC wrote:
tedro wrote:
I would like to see that same question asked to a group of wealthy black people, and then at a separate time to a group of poor black people. And I don’t simply mean how often do you think about race in terms of your heritage and culture, I mean how often you think of race being an issue in your every day life.

Not all of the African-Americans who attended the presentation and raised their hands during the last of Dr. Troutman’s series of questions (the “everyday” part) were “poor black people” (although I guess that would depend on your determination of what qualifies someone as belonging to said group). In fact, I don’t know if there were any present; not by my measure, anyway.

Dr. Troutman himself also raised his hand. He is about as accomplished as a person can be, academically, professionally and financially.

So, if you’re implying that the second group in your hypothetical situation would be the only one in which a majority of the people asked would raise their hands, well…you’re wrong in at least one case.[/quote]

And he certainly doesn’t have a hidden agenda, does he?

54

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
Professor X wrote:
While you may argue that it has to do with social class, you would have to be pretty blind to act as if there aren’t drastically larger numbers of minorities being effected by it.

.

So what is Prof.?

You don’t like arguing the social aspect of it, you seem offended when it comes to the racial aspect of it, and you disregard that mistreatment of people is a basic function of the human experience.

Are we to believe that your opinion is the only one here that is valid?

[/quote]

I believe that is the basis of all of his arguements.

55

[quote]tedro wrote:
And he certainly doesn’t have a hidden agenda, does he?[/quote]

You have got to be kidding me. Did you completely miss the first paragraph I typed?

Why don’t you try addressing the main point of my post instead of continuing to focus on your obsession with Dr. Troutman and his “hidden agenda”?

I replied in reference to your curiosity about his question being asked of different groups. Yet, instead of discussing that, you avoid the matter entirely and decide to focus on something else. Who’s making the “straw man” now?

56

[quote]CC wrote:
tedro wrote:
And he certainly doesn’t have a hidden agenda, does he?

You have got to be kidding me. Did you completely miss the first paragraph I typed?

Not all of the African-Americans who attended the presentation and raised their hands during the last of Dr. Troutman’s series of questions (the “everyday” part) were “poor black people” (although I guess that would depend on your determination of what qualifies someone as belonging to said group). In fact, I don’t know if there were any present; not by my measure, anyway.

Why don’t you try addressing the main point of my post instead of continuing to focus on your obsession with Dr. Troutman and his “hidden agenda”?
[/quote]

You’re right, it is not a hidden agenda. It is actually quite obvious.

I suppose I am now not even quite sure what the main point of your post was. When you go from talking about disparities in health care between races, to disparities in pricing between white neighborhoods and minority neighborhoods, to asking how often people think of their race, it really seems like I am on the exact topic you intended to start. Apparently most of the others reading this got the same impression. Perhaps the communication problem is your own.

Even if you do want to isolate the topic to how often one thinks about race, you are going to have to introduce reasons for thinking about race. Reasons such as health care equality and price disparities. Issues that Dr. Troutman has addressed throughout his career.

[quote]
I replied in reference to your curiosity about his question being asked of different groups. Yet, instead of discussing that, you avoid the matter entirely and decide to focus on something else. Who’s making the “straw man” now?[/quote]

One man’s opinion doesn’t hardly make a statistic significant. I chose to ignore that particular reply because it was meaningless, as it is exactly what one would expect Dr. Troutman to say, given that he is making a career out of the subject.

For more info on Dr. Troutman, you may want to read this article. Nothing too juicy, but it does show that he takes the exact stance that I assumed that he did.

http://www.thetroutmangroup.org/ade_cj_article_text.htm

I thought it was kind of funny that his own wife disagrees with his view on race, and actually seems to be more in agreeance with me.

She is an activist for women’s causes who spent much of her childhood in an affluent Maryland neighborhood with a stay-at-home mother and professional father. She disagrees with her husband’s views on race; hers are built around self-reliance. It’s such a point of contention that they don’t discuss it. But she said, “I’m this man’s biggest champion when it comes to African-American health.”

57

[quote]tedro wrote:
I suppose I am now not even quite sure what the main point of your post was.[/quote]

You might try going back and reading the part in my original post where it blatantly says “the real reason for this thread”. I have posted it twice now.

Well, you’re wrong. Don’t know how to put it any more plainly. I already said I only included those facts because I thought they were interesting, not as an addendum to the discussion I was trying to start.

Or perhaps it’s because it’s much easier to focus on the “other stuff” and ignore the real question I was asking entirely.

Actually, no, I don’t have to introduce anything. The reason I asked the question I did was in hope that people would offer some ideas, thoughts, observations, and suggestions of their own.

This is getting ridiculous.

Read the other particular paragraph I have posted twice now ONE MORE TIME. I’ll post it a third time just for good measure:

Where does it say anything about Dr. Troutman? There were many African-American attendants present, none of whom were “poor black people” by my observation and many if not most of whom raised their hands in response to the “everyday” part of his questioning.

It was not “[o]ne man’s opinion”. Do I need to say it again?

58

tedro…what is your point?? What is your agenda?? Obviously you have one since you seem to forget that regardless of the references to Dr.Troutman and his speech…that CC’s main agenda was the discussion of HOW OFTEN DO YOU THINK ABOUT YOUR RACE??? AND WHY IS THAT?? Why is it that you’re the only one making an argument outside what was intended??

I think the only reason you posted in this thread was to take a stance with your obvious hang ups on reverse racism,affirmative action,etc. You made that obvious from the beginning. You could argue till eternity about race being a factor in social/economic issues. But to say it doesn’t exist is ridiculous and close-minded. Now,HOW MUCH OF A FACTOR IS RACE? could be another argument…a very hard one for obvious reasons. No one has touched on that because there’s too much of an individual factor to argue that.

Saying race is a major factor in health care,grocery stores,etc. are issues of Dr.Troutman…but in my opinion,its not what CC was focusing in on. I’m sure he was focused on discussing how often people think about race…and why??? So??? How often do YOU think about YOUR race…and why??

If you don’t…why not?? I have a feeling that your answers to those questions will say more about you than anything you’ve posted so far. It might even give some validity to your points…well maybe not,but its worth a try on your part.

59

[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
The allocation of foods space, arrangement, and selection in a grocery store is determined by consumption.
Having built a couple of refrigetation systems in both Costcos and Save-A-Lots, I can tell you that the demgraphic targets of those stores are on opposite ends of the spectrum, as are their allocations of space, arrangement, and selection.

The esteemed speaker wasn’t saying anything new there. It seems he was actualy creating a fallacious link between race and availability of fresh foods. The ADA has investigated this pretty thoroughly and determined that is has more to to with social class than race. People of a lower social class aren’t spending their money on relatively expensive but not as filling foods, regardless of nutritional value. This has also contributed to the phenomenon of obese malnoursihment.

[/quote]

Bingo! I have to go to the seedier neighborhood grocery stores if I want to buy ethnic foods but yet in the more affluent neighborhood where I live I can buy fresher produce because people can afford it more there. Markets work on supply and demand. Economics 101.

Rich people eat better food. How is that hard to understand?

60

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
SkyzykS wrote:
The allocation of foods space, arrangement, and selection in a grocery store is determined by consumption.
Having built a couple of refrigetation systems in both Costcos and Save-A-Lots, I can tell you that the demgraphic targets of those stores are on opposite ends of the spectrum, as are their allocations of space, arrangement, and selection.

The esteemed speaker wasn’t saying anything new there. It seems he was actually creating a fallacious link between race and availability of fresh foods. The ADA has investigated this pretty thoroughly and determined that is has more to to with social class than race. People of a lower social class aren’t spending their money on relatively expensive but not as filling foods, regardless of nutritional value. This has also contributed to the phenomenon of obese malnourishment.

Bingo! I have to go to the seedier neighborhood grocery stores if I want to buy ethnic foods but yet in the more affluent neighborhood where I live I can buy fresher produce because people can afford it more there. Markets work on supply and demand. Economics 101.

Rich people eat better food. How is that hard to understand?[/quote]

Not as hard as understanding the topic of this thread.