I think that the science changes on a regular basis. We are manipulating our hormones to try and correct a problem. If someone’s body reacts badly to that adjustment I think it is just stubborn to pretend that one adjustment is okay and another is not. Most of the things that we take for medicine are really awful for us in some way. I think an extreme point of view is generally a wrong point of view. For some guys the sides of high E2 are brutal. For some guys the sides of an AI are brutal. No one should start with an AI, that’s silly. Everyone should be open to the possibility of needing one until they know for sure how they will react to test.
That being said, I am by no means an advocate of long term use of AI’s. But I do eat french fries sometimes and I’m willing to bet that research shows the ill effects of eatig them are probably worse than an AI.
Would love your opinions on this one. Thanks!
Google: Dr. Rouzier and AI/estrogen management.
Rouzier is one of the top TRT specialists.
Regarding estradiol and aromatase inhibitors? There is evidence supporting higher E2 levels as being healthier and lower levels unhealthy. Most guys on TRT do not use AIs and do fine. Many and maybe most (underground guys and guys doing TRT through their PCP) do not even know about them. I would avoid them and as one who had used anastrozole in the past, I can say I feel much better without it and have seen significant improvement in my lipid profile.
I’m not at the place where I think they should never be used yet. Just as some women are sensitive to changing hormonal levels, it stands to reason that some guys can be as well. I do think many talk themselves into it though. Walking around rubbing your nipples to see if they are tender may make them tender. Yes, I believe some overthink this and talk themselves into not being “stable” or “dialed in”.
Back in the 70s and 80s, I knew some who had trouble with high E2 and even some who had surgery for gynecomastia. I am talking about mostly bodybuilders and powerlifters, but a few were weightlifters. However, we were doing heavy doses (although not near what guys use today) and nothing like TRT doses.
I think Neal Rouzier makes a lot sense he backs it up with evidence.
I did not read all. But you were doing 160 no ai and were feeling great?
Bingo
You felt great on your first protocol because you were in your honeymoon phase of TRT. You would have felt just as great if you took 100mg/wk.
My advice is if you are not going to follow Defys instructions then quit them and go buy from the guy at the gym with all the acne on his back. Stop wasting so much money on real doctors.
If I read correctly, he was doing great on 160 a week with no AI. Then defy idiotically tells @e306 to lower dose and ADD AN AI.
I don’t care what defy is- this was not right.
Maybe lower dose sightly but why the fuck add an AI. He didn’t complain of itchy tits, excessively moody, etc. No he actually had muscle gain and looked great. .
As stated by another user I just read…it appears defy is liked because they get you the stuff.
Yah it’s going down the drain in terms of quality
Defy is a bit of a factory in my opinion; that’s okay as long as you take charge and mainly use them as a source for Pharma-grade.
Update: it’s been a week since I quit my .05mg Anastrozole. Already starting to feel a bit better in the past day or two. Hoping to speak to defy this week and see if I can go to 150mg and no AI. I felt better at 160mg and I clearly feel better without the AI even if my labs say my E2 is high. Concerned as the nurse who called me the other day acted as if it’s irresponsible to let me E2 be “that high” and we just do something about it. Will definitely speak to someone else this week as that was the first time I’ve experienced that behavior with them. She was only looking at the numbers, not listening to how I feel and just telling me that it’s the high E2 that’s the problem. Even when I explained it was only after adding AI and lowering my dose that the problem started. I also reminded her that I’ve driven my E2 below 17 on just 0.1mg/week when I was on higher dose Clomid monotherapy.
That’s because she lacks critical thought and common sense, so she fixates on the lab ranges because it’s easier for her this way. People who have analytical thought direct your TRT protocol based on what you tell them, these people tend to be less concerned about the numbers because they have a unique skill set.
The price of a nurse vs Calkins or Saya is not very much money it more time since many prefer them. If you don’t like what the nurse is saying then just wait for the doc. Just remember there
is a lot going on in your body and what you think is happening might not be what is really happening. Trust them or leave them. If you don’t do what they say you dam well can’t blame them for your protocol not working. Everyone has a honeymoon no one (((no one))) ever get back there. Best of luck to you.
I’m not chasing the honeymoon i experienced for a couple of weeks in the beginning. I saw that come and go. But I still felt good. The way I felt recently is way worse than I ever felt before TRT, so if this is just the way it is - what’s the point?
I agree TRT may not be what it take to fix whatever you are having an issue with.
So many guys seem to think our sex hormones is the answer to everything that is going wrong with us.
Are you following systemlords lates medical issues? His TRT could have actually accelerated his medical problems.
This takes time and 3/4 months most of the time and for most men. One needs patience. If you got on Trt with normal T this is no comparison to a man who actually had low t and had to start trt to survive. I was dying and miserable pre trt. It took 3 months to work on me and since then I’m only getting better. This is why I gave it so much time. I had zero desire to sit in fatigue and death.
You also want to ensure you are having a free t that your body needs. Maybe it is low and you would feel better in the mid or high 20s. Some men feel better at 30 while others at 18. Dial in the protocol takes time as stated above.
Hang in there stay focused and don’t be negative. Otherwise back to the old well being.
Good luck
So my e2 sensitive labs came in at 59. This was 5 days since my last .05mg Adex dose and I haven’t taken any more since. And I feel great again. So f’n weird. I’m sweating a bit at night but otherwise, high libido, morning wood, no bloat. I don’t get it. Speaking to defy today.
Your paying for their “expertise”. Challenge them! Let them explain! Question them!
I will! Just odd that my E2 likely wasn’t that low, yet I was feeling sides. And it’s currently clearly way high, and I feel good.