[quote]duncanidaho wrote:
And you don’t recognize a man’s right to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy that would condemn him to a life of misery. Either having to marry this chick, somehow(almost impossible) getting full custody of the child, or paying a ridiculous amount of child support to the woman and living as a penniless slob. [/quote]
Excellent!
[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Murderous? Abortion isn’t murder in this country. How can forced non-murder be murderous?
I was under the impression that a substantial portion of Americans considered abortion murder.
But seriously, kicking a gal in the belly so hard that she loses her baby is as close to murder for me as it gets.
Hell’s frozen over, I agree with Lixy
On a side topic I am very much for a woman’s right to choose. My mother was a nurse for many years(stopped when her kidneys stopped functioning) and she told me a storys of the back alley abortions and one story she told often. A girl barely 14 had been rqaped by her dad, had a back alley abortion and was mutilated.
To add insult to this the cops had come and handcuffed one arm to the bed bnecause she had broken the law by aborting an unwanted birth. What did this little girl do while recovering? She colored pictures and played with dolls. So long as things like this happen we need to have the right of choice period.
[/quote]
so in your eyes, to wrongs make a right? the girl had no choice in being raped…it was forced upon her. But the little kid in her womb didn’t have a choice to be killed either right?..so how does that work? on one hand you are sayin NO its not right, she got raped! and on the otheryou are sayin…no go ahead and kill that little baby! even though it doesn’t have a choice. See what I am sayin? seems to me like that little child and the momma have somethin in common, they couldn’t choose what happens with a part of their lives.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
My contention is that since women are treated poorly in most muslim countries, it only makes sense by your own logic allied, they’d be better off aborted since they will likely be miserable. Just like China! How’s that working out for them anyhow?
That’s nothing but a reductio ad absurdum. Women in Muslim countries (and many other places) look forward to having girls because they tend to take care of the elders much more than boys.
Read my post again. I wrote that you don’t have the right to decide what a chick does with her body. If you don’t like abortion, take steps to avoid unwanted pregnancies in the first place (education, contraceptives, abstinence, etc…). But one a pregnancy happens, you don’t have the moral right to limit the girl’s options. If it’s in contradiction with your scriptures, suck it up!
I’m sure you would be singing a different tune if you were the one who had to put up with the 9 months, delivery and all.[/quote]
It’s not the woman’s body I am worried about. It’s the little baby inside them. Killing a fetus is like killing a baby outside the womb. Until such point that somebody can convince me that the “fetus” is not a person, then I will continue to be against abortion.
Second, I am quite sure I am more experienced in all phases conception, pregnancy, and birth as well as the raising of children than you are. Even though men don’t have to carry the child, God gets us back trust me.
[quote]tedro wrote:
There is also a wide-spread belief among pro-lifers that life begins at implantation. This would not contradict the use of birth control at all. I don’t agree with this, as biologically it is indisputable that life begins at conception. Most pro-choicers do not even argue this. After this, I prefer Marquis’ Future like ours arguement.[/quote]
That is an interesting take. I would just be happy to end the majority of willful, purposeful abortions. Those that occur long after conception and implantation.
Or in this case the kid is being charged with murder, when by rights according to the law he did assault and battery.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
It’s not the woman’s body I am worried about. It’s the little baby inside them. Killing a fetus is like killing a baby outside the womb. Until such point that somebody can convince me that the “fetus” is not a person, then I will continue to be against abortion. [/quote]
Not quite. You are against abortion because the Vatican (or whatever guru you prefer) told you to.
Do you see a pattern on this map?
And that is relevant how? I am not advocating abortions for fun. I’m saying it should be an option in cases of unwanted pregnancies.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
It’s not the woman’s body I am worried about. It’s the little baby inside them. Killing a fetus is like killing a baby outside the womb. Until such point that somebody can convince me that the “fetus” is not a person, then I will continue to be against abortion.
Not quite. You are against abortion because the Vatican (or whatever guru you prefer) told you to.
[/quote]
Lixy, that is the worst form of debate. You not only ignored his reasons, but turned around and created an arguement for him out of thin air. Try to be more honest. This is becoming a pattern for you.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
It’s not the woman’s body I am worried about. It’s the little baby inside them. Killing a fetus is like killing a baby outside the womb. Until such point that somebody can convince me that the “fetus” is not a person, then I will continue to be against abortion.
Not quite. You are against abortion because the Vatican (or whatever guru you prefer) told you to.
Lixy, that is the worst form of debate. You not only ignored his reasons, but turned around and created an arguement for him out of thin air. Try to be more honest. This is becoming a pattern for you.[/quote]
How is this unfair?
The idea that life begins at conception is a Christian idea.
Were he born somewhere else he would not only not be Christian but this idea would also not be part of his culture.
[quote]orion wrote:
Sloth wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
It’s not the woman’s body I am worried about. It’s the little baby inside them. Killing a fetus is like killing a baby outside the womb. Until such point that somebody can convince me that the “fetus” is not a person, then I will continue to be against abortion.
Not quite. You are against abortion because the Vatican (or whatever guru you prefer) told you to.
Lixy, that is the worst form of debate. You not only ignored his reasons, but turned around and created an arguement for him out of thin air. Try to be more honest. This is becoming a pattern for you.
How is this unfair?
The idea that life begins at conception is a Christian idea.
Were he born somewhere else he would not only not be Christian but this idea would also not be part of his culture.
[/quote]
What are you talking about? Pro-life atheists oppose abortion in the belief, that from embryo on, a new individual human being is developing. They see a human being as a chain of developmental stages, from embryo to elderly. Break one part of that chain and a human life is ended. You may not like it, but people do opposse abortion for purely secular reasons, also.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
What are you talking about? Pro-life atheists oppose abortion in the belief, that from embryo on, a new individual human being is developing. They see a human being as a chain of developmental stages, from embryo to elderly. Break one part of that chain and a human life is ended. You may not like it, but people do opposse abortion for purely secular reasons, also.
[/quote]
You are arguing with stumps. You take away their whipping boy which is fundamentalist Christian fanatics, and they can only mumble incoherent, baseless bullshit.
Please see any of lixy the ass raping pedophile’s posts for an example.
These assholes don’t give a flying fuck about life except their own. Never mind that it was a conscious decision (in all cases but rape) on both parts to engage in an activity that has been proven time and again to cause pregnancy.
Now they want to murder a defenseless, voiceless individual because it inconveniences there life for a few months.
If you don’t want a fucking baby, keep your fucking pants zipped. Murder should not be a get out of jail free card when it comes to babies.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Lixy, that is the worst form of debate. You not only ignored his reasons, but turned around and created an arguement for him out of thin air. Try to be more honest. This is becoming a pattern for you.[/quote]
His reasons are derived from religion. I normally wouldn’t mind as I am a believer myself, but when said religion is in blatant defiance of common sense I have the right, ney the responsibility, to denounce it.
I just can’t understand adepts of regressionism who want to take away rights of women that took centuries to get. The international community’s position is unambiguous on the subject.
But, yeah, forgive me for not being in the mood to quibble over legal lingo when the opponent does not recognize a person’s sovereignty over her own body. I just don’t tolerate that.
[quote]lixy wrote:
His reasons are derived from religion. I normally wouldn’t mind as I am a believer myself, but when said religion is in blatant defiance of common sense I have the right, ney the responsibility, to denounce it.
[/quote]
Murder is common sense?
In what dictionary?
In what universe?
You are one fucked up little ass raping pedophile.
I find it very telling that one who supports the forced rape of teenagers, and forced marriages of 40-something year-old men to prepubescent little girls, would think that he had a fucking clue about common sense.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
Pro-life atheists oppose abortion in the belief, that from embryo on, a new individual human being is developing.[/quote]
Atheists represent less than 1% of the United States (2001 ARIS report). How many of those do you think are against aborting in the first trimester? I bet you that I could fit them all in my courtyard.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Lixy, that is the worst form of debate. You not only ignored his reasons, but turned around and created an arguement for him out of thin air. Try to be more honest. This is becoming a pattern for you.
His reasons are derived from religion. I normally wouldn’t mind as I am a believer myself, but when said religion is in blatant defiance of common sense I have the right, ney the responsibility, to denounce it.
I just can’t understand adepts of regressionism who want to take away rights of women that took centuries to get. The international community’s position is unambiguous on the subject.
But, yeah, forgive me for not being in the mood to quibble over legal lingo when the opponent does not recognize a person’s sovereignty over her own body. I just don’t tolerate that.[/quote]
I recognize the sovereignty over one’s own body. I also recognize that each human life has this sovereignty. Unfortunately, in the case of pregnancy, we are talking about an additional human life. And here the right to life trumps privacy and property.
Otherwise, why not extend the sovereignty of her body even after the baby is born? Why should she have to use her body to feed the child? Why should she have to use her body to make sure the baby has medicine? Or shelter? Providing such things require the mother to act with her body.
If a woman wants to smoke crack, I’ll support no laws stopping her. If she wants to work in a brothel, I’ll support no law stopping her. I, in no way, wish to extend wish to give the state power over her body. But, when another human life comes into the picture…
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Pro-life atheists oppose abortion in the belief, that from embryo on, a new individual human being is developing.
Atheists represent less than 1% of the United States (2001 ARIS report). How many of those do you think are against aborting in the first trimester? I bet you that I could fit them all in my courtyard.[/quote]
So your entire argument is based on what you bet can fit in your courtyard?
Who the fuck cares? You have two folks right here that are not arguing based on religion. And you are too chicken-shit to engage them.
Either fucking fight, or get the fuck off of this thread. You’re bullshit won’t work here, rape-girl.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Pro-life atheists oppose abortion in the belief, that from embryo on, a new individual human being is developing.
Atheists represent less than 1% of the United States (2001 ARIS report). How many of those do you think are against aborting in the first trimester? I bet you that I could fit them all in my courtyard.[/quote]
I have no clue why this matters. The point is that secular reasons are also used to formulate a Pro-life position. If one believes the unborn is a human life, though still developing, than one has a secular reason to extend the right to life to the unbron.
That is the what you can’t get around. If someone believes that the unborn child is an individual human life, there is no compromise.
[quote]rainjack wrote:
lixy wrote:
John S. wrote:
I am angaist birth controll pills
Don’t use them.
Too bad your parents didn’t take your advice. [/quote]
LOL! They couldn’t; they don’t sell birth control pills in Islamic countries (I think).
Remember their plan is to take over Europe then man the boats and head for Texas.
This stuff about Christian doctrine being the sole reason for a “pro-life” position is crap. Christians, like everyone else in this debate, have simply taken a metaphysical position as to when life begins. Since I think we all agree that a right to privacy does not trump another’s right to life, that’s what the debate centers on. The “pro-life” crowd choose conception. Those who are “pro-choice” choose birth. In the former, there is a qualitative difference before and after; the latter, a difference of location, food intake, waste expulsion and respiration. Sounds like we should just start offing people in intensive care by that logic.
On the topic of this kid, no way can he be charged with murder. The only difference between what he did and what a woman does at an abortion clinic is he carried out an abortion without the mother’s consent. Consent can not be a mitigating factor for murder unless it comes from the person who’s life is being taken. That presents a problem for a group who deny the “personhood” of a fetus. Property damage, battery and a lawsuit for emotional distress. That’s it.
[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
It’s not the woman’s body I am worried about. It’s the little baby inside them. Killing a fetus is like killing a baby outside the womb. Until such point that somebody can convince me that the “fetus” is not a person, then I will continue to be against abortion.
Not quite. You are against abortion because the Vatican (or whatever guru you prefer) told you to.
Do you see a pattern on this map?
[/quote]
Is that an argument? Sounds like a straw man of the most obvious sort. When did I ever mention religion? Despite where a belief comes from you are unable to to argue the facts because they are not on your side. I am arguing that this “fetus” is a human being. Not a body part of a female. Believe me, if a woman wants to cut her arm off and shove it up her own ass, I don’t give a shit. If she is trying to terminate the life of another human being because she made a bad decision. I say the fetus is a person. The only argument you can make is to say its not.
Of course maybe not, according to your guru’s, killing other people is a way to solve problems. So maybe your point of view works for you. But your argument is pathetic.
[quote]Headhunter wrote:
LOL! They couldn’t; they don’t sell birth control pills in Islamic countries (I think).[/quote]
Think again genius.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Is that an argument? Sounds like a straw man of the most obvious sort. When did I ever mention religion? [/quote]
You didn’t. I just extended the debate. The whole “pro-life” debate was sparked by religion. Had it not been for the millions spent on propaganda by religious groups in your country. There is a good reason well over 80% of people who participate in European referendums support abortion. I recommend you look into that.