[quote]lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
This American very much does.
No shit! You don’t even recognize a woman’s right to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy not realizing that you’re condemning her and her baby to a life of misery. And the icing on the cake is that you also oppose giving them some of your tax-money…
You have no respect for pregnant women.[/quote]
Who are you to decide whether or not another life is worth living?
You have no respect for babies.
[quote]lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Murderous? Abortion isn’t murder in this country. How can forced non-murder be murderous?
I was under the impression that a substantial portion of Americans considered abortion murder.
But seriously, kicking a gal in the belly so hard that she loses her baby is as close to murder for me as it gets.[/quote]
Hell’s frozen over, I agree with Lixy
On a side topic I am very much for a woman’s right to choose. My mother was a nurse for many years(stopped when her kidneys stopped functioning) and she told me a storys of the back alley abortions and one story she told often. A girl barely 14 had been rqaped by her dad, had a back alley abortion and was mutilated.
To add insult to this the cops had come and handcuffed one arm to the bed bnecause she had broken the law by aborting an unwanted birth. What did this little girl do while recovering? She colored pictures and played with dolls. So long as things like this happen we need to have the right of choice period.
[quote]tedro wrote:
lixy wrote:
pat36 wrote:
This American very much does.
No shit! You don’t even recognize a woman’s right to get rid of an unwanted pregnancy not realizing that you’re condemning her and her baby to a life of misery. And the icing on the cake is that you also oppose giving them some of your tax-money…
You have no respect for pregnant women.
Who are you to decide whether or not another life is worth living?
You have no respect for babies.[/quote]
Muslims tend to have little respect for life as it is, so this sentiment doesn’t surprise me. By that logic every girl in every arab country should be aborted because they are doomed to a life of hardship and misery.That being said, though inevitably it will become so, this thread isn’t about debating what abortion is, it is about the law’s view of a fetus. A woman can abort a fetus all she wants to and it is nothing but extraneous tissue.
However, a kids kills the fetus by way of a football, it is a murder. Or a pregnant woman is murdered and it is a double murder. How is this possible if the “fetus” is not a human life. It either is or it isn’t, so one of the two interpretations of the law has to change. One can’t be murder and the other not. It’s just not even remotely logical.
[quote]kevinm1 wrote:
lixy wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Murderous? Abortion isn’t murder in this country. How can forced non-murder be murderous?
I was under the impression that a substantial portion of Americans considered abortion murder.
But seriously, kicking a gal in the belly so hard that she loses her baby is as close to murder for me as it gets.
Hell’s frozen over, I agree with Lixy
On a side topic I am very much for a woman’s right to choose. My mother was a nurse for many years(stopped when her kidneys stopped functioning) and she told me a storys of the back alley abortions and one story she told often. A girl barely 14 had been rqaped by her dad, had a back alley abortion and was mutilated.
To add insult to this the cops had come and handcuffed one arm to the bed bnecause she had broken the law by aborting an unwanted birth. What did this little girl do while recovering? She colored pictures and played with dolls. So long as things like this happen we need to have the right of choice period.
[/quote]
So given that this is your stance, should the kid in the above story be charged with murder?
[quote]pookie wrote:
First, throwing the football once could be an accident. Twice isn’t.
Second, the article states that the premature baby lived for “hours” before dying. Killing a 2 hours old baby isn’t really any different than killing a 2 month old or 2 year old… Even if the killing occurred as an indirect result of actions taken hours before, I can see “murder” being an apt description of what the kid did. Negligent homicide or depraved indifference might be the charge.
[/quote]
That’s a really fine and blurry line your walking. So had the baby died in utero this would then not be murder? Are you looking at for the stand point of the letter of the law or this is what you think personally?
I’m strictly Pro-life. My previous post was meant to illustrate the absurdity of trying to charge this kid with anything more than assault and battery, while Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. The boy can’t, and shouldn’t, be convicted of anything like murder or negligent homicide. He hit her in the stomach. Suspend him from school for a week.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m strictly Pro-life. My previous post was meant to illustrate the absurdity of trying to charge this kid with anything more than assault and battery, while Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. The boy can’t, and shouldn’t, be convicted of anything like murder or negligent homicide. He hit her in the stomach. Suspend him from school for a week.[/quote]
I agree with you. By law, this cannot be murder. In a logical system though, depending somewhat on the state, this sounds like a textbook case of 2nd degree murder.
What hasn’t been mentioned is how far along the pregnancy was. This could bring up discussions of late term abortions, and I don’t know what Florida law is. If she was far enough along and late term abortions are illegal in Florida, I suppose it could be murder. This doesn’t make any sense though, as a ban against late term abortions is a flaw in the pro-choice argument.
[quote]tedro wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m strictly Pro-life. My previous post was meant to illustrate the absurdity of trying to charge this kid with anything more than assault and battery, while Roe v. Wade is the law of the land. The boy can’t, and shouldn’t, be convicted of anything like murder or negligent homicide. He hit her in the stomach. Suspend him from school for a week.
I agree with you. By law, this cannot be murder. In a logical system though, depending somewhat on the state, this sounds like a textbook case of 2nd degree murder.
What hasn’t been mentioned is how far along the pregnancy was. This could bring up discussions of late term abortions, and I don’t know what Florida law is. If she was far enough along and late term abortions are illegal in Florida, I suppose it could be murder. This doesn’t make any sense though, as a ban against late term abortions is a flaw in the pro-choice argument.[/quote]
I see it like this.
or
Basically, how the hell do you charge someone with the homicide of an entity whose right to life isn’t recognized under law?
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I see it like this.
or
Basically, how the hell do you charge someone with the homicide of an entity whose right to life isn’t recognized under law?
[/quote]
Exactly, any way you look at it you find flaws in the law and the pro-choice argument.
[quote]tedro wrote:
Who are you to decide whether or not another life is worth living? [/quote]
I am not deciding anything. It’s the pregnant woman’s call.
First of all, it’s called a fetus, not a baby. Secondly, I know T-driven men can get very convincing, resort to lying and even abuse to get their way with chicks. I do not condone out-of-wedlock unprotected sex, but I don’t have my head buried in the sand either. Promiscuity is becoming a plague nowadays and we should face the consequences with a cool head. That is, avoid turning a youth’s mistake into a monumental blunder.
Call me baby killer all you want, but don’t expect to sell me the idea that a woman’s uterus is none of her business. What’s next? Deciding what substances I can put into my own body?
Get a clue.
[quote]pat36 wrote:
Muslims tend to have little respect for life as it is, so this sentiment doesn’t surprise me. By that logic every girl in every arab country should be aborted because they are doomed to a life of hardship and misery.That being said, though inevitably it will become so, this thread isn’t about debating what abortion is, it is about the law’s view of a fetus. A woman can abort a fetus all she wants to and it is nothing but extraneous tissue. [/quote]
Where did you fetch this from? The protocols of the elders of Arafat? You are sounding more and more like JTF.
Here’s something you might want to check out.
At the time of Muhammad’s birth, women in 7th century Arabia had few if any rights. Even the right of life could be in question, since it was not uncommon for small girls to be buried alive during times of scarcity. In the Qur’an, it is said that on Judgment Day “buried girls” will rise out of their graves and ask for what crime they were killed. Part of Muhammad’s legacy was to end infanticide and establish explicit rights for women.
[quote]lixy wrote:
tedro wrote:
Who are you to decide whether or not another life is worth living?
I am not deciding anything. It’s the pregnant woman’s call.
[/quote]
I’m sorry, I thought you said by not aborting we were condemning people to a life of misery. Nobody can decide this but the person living the life themselves. This is a very poor pro-choice arguement.
A monumental blunder… you mean something like murder?
By this logic, you must support abortion right up to the time a baby is born. Is that the case?
[quote]
What’s next? Deciding what substances I can put into my own body?
Get a clue.[/quote]
Actually that was decided long ago.
[quote]tedro wrote:
I’m sorry, I thought you said by not aborting we were condemning people to a life of misery. Nobody can decide this but the person living the life themselves. This is a very poor pro-choice arguement. [/quote]
Yeah, I heard that “equal chances” line before. I just don’t buy it. I don’t believe we are dealt the same cards when it comes to wealth. There’s ample evidence that suggest young girls forced to keep an unwanted child don’t turn out so well - and neither do their offspring.
If you think it’s a “very poor pro-choice arguement”, I don’t really care. I was just ranting.
Nah. You got my point.
Actually, I would not mind criminalizing abortion in the latter months. What I’m mad at are the inflexible people (usually males) who oppose the principle because of their ideology.
Well, it don’t make it any less wrong.
[quote]Sloth wrote:
I see it like this.
or
Basically, how the hell do you charge someone with the homicide of an entity whose right to life isn’t recognized under law?
[/quote]
False Dichotomy. Because the unborn fetus is not considered a human life that means we cannot punish someone for its destruction? Nonsense.
How the fuck can abortion even be considered legal? I would like to see any of these pro choice people look me in the eye and tell me that if there wife got hit in the stomach when she was just 3 weeks pregnant by someone, that that person did not just kill there kid.
[quote]Moriarty wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I see it like this.
or
Basically, how the hell do you charge someone with the homicide of an entity whose right to life isn’t recognized under law?
False Dichotomy. Because the unborn fetus is not considered a human life that means we cannot punish someone for its destruction? Nonsense.
[/quote]
he is charged with a property crime? vandalism?
[quote]John S. wrote:
How the fuck can abortion even be considered legal? I would like to see any of these pro choice people look me in the eye and tell me that if there wife got hit in the stomach when she was just 3 weeks pregnant by someone, that that person did not just kill there kid.[/quote]
“No, the boy is quilty of nothing more than destroying bio mass owned solely by your wife. It is a matter of vandalism against that property, and battery against her.”
[quote]pat36 wrote:
http://www.local6.com/news/14906656/detail.html
Do tell! I find this very interesting myself. Hitting a pregnant girl in the stomach that causes her to abort the fetus is murder? Yet, any girl of any age can go to a clinic and do this carte blanc, with no consequences.
Personally I hope they go after him for murder. Not cause I am mean and I hate the guy. I think he fucked up and it was an accident for which I am sure he is sorry. I just think it will reinvigorate the whole abortion debate and make it interesting, particularly pre-election.
Merry Christmas![/quote]
One of my female students (many years ago) told another girl to punch her in the gut — she was PG and didn’t want the baby. Turned out it was by her half-brother. Some people are no better than animals.
I don’t get any of there arguments. I was once told that to be declared a living thing it would have to be able to live by itself. If thats the case wouldn’t someone on life support be considered not living?
[quote]lixy wrote:
You must be freakin’ kidding me!
Can you not see the immense difference between a girl willingly aborting and one that is attacked by a murderous rascal? A girl has every right to decide on what goes on inside her body.
I think this thread calls for the following interjection: Jesus![/quote]
There are plenty examples of legal precedents that say a woman can’t do whatever she pleases with her body. She can’t sell sex or organs for instance.
Abortion is a medical procedure and should be regulated state by state.