8/29/08 Rest
…Debating whether to finish dieting or to finish it up. I’m pretty weak and I think my goal should be developing more size and strength, however is it worth getting leaner first for better nutrient partitioning.
…I need two weeks at maintenance regardless.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
8/29/08 Rest
…Debating whether to finish dieting or to finish it up. I’m pretty weak and I think my goal should be developing more size and strength, however is it worth getting leaner first for better nutrient partitioning.
…I need two weeks at maintenance regardless. [/quote]
Just trying to work out your goal here (i’ve only flicked through the first four pages and I can’t seem to get onto your profile). Can you briefly summarize work done up to now and what you wanted to achieve out of this? please ;o)
So much for brief, the summary is as follows:
I have been trying to get to ~10% body fat without muscle loss in order to start building strength/mass without having to worry about my bodyfat.
I worked out in high school doing mainly upper body. I got out of shape then started climbing in college a little. Still kind of fat, modestly developed upper body, and moderately active. After college I drank beer, played golf, and ate for a Summer. Got really out of shape, and have been trying to figure out how to do things the right way.
I have started squatting and my lower body is fucking weak, I wish I trained it more when I was younger, but I have been dieting in order to get to a point where I don’t have to worry about my body fat. I really want to get my legs bigger and stronger, which is torture if you are dieting because you can squat all you want but you aren’t going to get bigger or stronger legs from it.
… and you are the first person to post in my training log. Congratulations and I hope I answered your questions. Feel free to ask any more.
The longer story follows:
I found this site in January. Started doing some circuit/crossfit style training with bw stuff and dumbbells in my apartment. My goal was to lose fat, get back in shape. I used to be a rock climber and still wasn’t interested in gaining muscle mass. I thought I was in shape too but I really wasn’t. I’m in a little better shape now, but still nowhere near where I want to be.
In late March I started getting back in the gym lifting weights. Learned how to back squat and I still don’t deadlift enough. Goal still was to lose fat. Been going to the gym about 2-3 days a week, with about 2 days of circuit training or jump rope in my apartment.
Throughout all this I have been working on my diet. Way back when I got a food scale and got on fit day. I started at 166 lbs near 20% bodyfat. Experimented with just eating clean foods and dieting, got down to near 158. Took some creatine and lost track of things for a bit, and now I am about 172 @ unknown bodyfat. I’m a lot leaner than I was, still nowhere near 10%.
My diet has been the thing I have experimented the most with, going from eating pizzas and ice cream nightly from the Summer after college when I was jobless and not working out, to clean eating, to carb cycling and now to a cyclical ketogenic approach.
My overall goal is to be strong and lean, between 170-180 lbs under 10% fat. I also want to be well conditioned, i.e. be able to perform high intensity crossfit style workouts in a good time. Overall, I am going for general strength and athleticism. I want to squat 405, bench 315, and deadlift 500+.
So my approach was something out of CT’s destroying fat. Some heavy lifting, some circuit style/lactic acid conditioning, and some slow cardio.
I also have been working on learning the oly lifts as well.
You seem to have a lot of “wants” there. You might need to ask Santa ;o)
On a serious note, looking at your pictures (able to get onto your profile now) you’ve obviously made a lot of progress on this. It also looks like you’ve kept yourself busy and have plenty of self discipline (which helps).
Couple of questions.
Well done btw! Can’t understand why nobody has helped you out with this thread up to now but anyway, take it from me, you’ve done a good job so far.
Bench is around 265. I think I did 275 when I got back in the weightroom although the kid I asked for a spot from had his fingers on the bar. I’m subtracting 10 lbs for that. In high school thats all I did really, benches, dips, pull ups, and some curls.
No idea on the deadlift. I’ve played around with it, trying to get comfortable with the lift. I’ve been putting my hips too low and kinda squatting the weight up. 225 is as heavy as I’ve went, and I was focused only on form. I’ll do a max attempt tomorrow as I have a better idea of how to perform the lift now.
I found an article on the shotgun method. 1 day basic compound lifts, squat or dead and a heavy push and pull. Then 1 day tertiary or weak point work. It sounds interesting, as I’ve been thinking my legs and shoulders are the weakest parts of my body and could really use some work. My left shoulder has been bothering me, but I cut down on a lot of movements and focused on horizontal pulls and some rehab stuff and it is feeling a lot better.
…Thanks for the kind words as well. I’m happy with the progress, but always feel like I could’ve done more, been more, disciplined, put in a harder effort, etc. But, I think thats a pretty common feeling for a lot of individuals who frequent this website.
[quote]theuofh wrote:
I’m happy with the progress, but always feel like I could’ve done more, been more, disciplined, put in a harder effort, etc. But, I think thats a pretty common feeling for a lot of individuals who frequent this website. [/quote]
I’d say everybody except Anabolic_Mike. He thinks KNOWS he’s perfect already ;o)
On another note… I’m using a modified 10 * 3 system. Strength is definitely going in the right direction with it. You might want to check it out.
I was using the 10x3 to cut fat. I like it a lot. I’m thinking I’m due for a change in programming though.
The other option I was considering was doing a 4 week hypertrophy mesocycle followed by a 3 week strength mesocycle. Higher reps, more volume, then less volume higher intensity.
Other options are 5x5 linear progression for 8 weeks followed by 6 weeks of a 20-rep squat routine. Hopefully, now that I can eat enough food, I can milk some beginner gains out of it.
It is generally accepted that size increase always follows a strength increase. Therefore I would do a strength based routine for 6-8 weeks followed by a hypertrophy routine.
I’ve had success with both the 5x5 and 20 rep squats. Looking back though I think there are much better routines than the standard “Stuart McRobert” 20 rep squats that I followed.
I normally don’t plan out how long I’m going to stick to a routine as I usually wait until I don’t feel it working. This is especially true if the rep ranges change in minicycles within the overall plan.
You should be able to do some sort of 2 on 1 off routine using the 3 biggies.
Remember - Your body gets used to rep ranges quicker than exercises.
Hope this helps you decide
8/29/08-8/31/08 The Ugly:
I’ve been eating a lot, kinda binging and haven’t been to the gym. I’ve been making these whole wheat boboli bbq chicken pizzas with stubbs spicy barbecue sauce and like 2 lbs of chicken that are delicious. I also have a cyst behind my ear that is getting rather large. I tried to drain it with a compass needle, no go and I only pissed it off. I took like 3 shots of vodka to work up the courage, or more the stupidity to do it, as the goal was not accomplished and I probably made it worse.
I’m going to the emergency room tomorrow to see if they can do it, I left a message for the ENT on Friday, but it will probably me 2 months before they can get me in. I’m rather unhappy about all of this, and hopefully it will be taken care of tomorrow or at least I can get some antibiotics.
I’m also kind of drunk as I am finishing the bottle of vodka and haven’t been liquor drunk in awhile. It feels great, except my training is off track and I have growth behind my ear. I’m also starting to consider using an exacto knife to make a bigger excision and draining this shit once and for all. Hopefully, I won’t wake up with half an ear and a staph infection over half my face.
How this ended up in my training log, I don’t know, but I haven’t missed an entry for awhile and I’m not about to start. I’ll probably erase it tomorrow, or keep it as a hallmark of humility and shame, reminding me that under any circumstances, pain, fatigue, hardship, drunkenness, that man should always seek to preserve his dignity.
I will depart with a quote.
“Thoughts lead on to purposes; purposes go forth in action; actions form habits; habits decide character; and character fixes our destiny.”
-Tryon Edwards
(courtesy of www.strengthliberationacademy.com)
[quote]Intersweat wrote:
It is generally accepted that size increase always follows a strength increase. Therefore I would do a strength based routine for 6-8 weeks followed by a hypertrophy routine.
I’ve had success with both the 5x5 and 20 rep squats. Looking back though I think there are much better routines than the standard “Stuart McRobert” 20 rep squats that I followed.
[/quote]
I’ve heard the opposite side of this coin. First, you work on developing the size, then you work on developing the strength of the size you just added. (This is from the performancemenu.com mass gain protocol training suggestions). But like you said, size generally follows strength increases, and I would prefer to develop strength before I focused purely on size gains, especially considering my where I am at in my training.
I am thinking a 5x5 is the best place to start until I level off, then maybe deload a week, then hit up the 20 reppers when hopefully I am stronger and can use a decently heavy weight. I am thinking 5x5, with a couple resets until I am about 315 max, then start at about 205 w/ 20 reppers, ~65% 1 rm. This is all conditional to the progress I am able to acheive.
[quote]
I normally don’t plan out how long I’m going to stick to a routine as I usually wait until I don’t feel it working. This is especially true if the rep ranges change in minicycles within the overall plan.
You should be able to do some sort of 2 on 1 off routine using the 3 biggies.
Remember - Your body gets used to rep ranges quicker than exercises.
Hope this helps you decide[/quote]
It helped a lot. I’m used to the 2 on-1 off. Usually heavy lifting+circuits/lactic/bw+kb stuff for fat loss. I think going heavy one day tbt, then focusing on shoulders, core, biceps, and some single leg stuff second day will be valuable with maybe some rower intervals now that I won’t be carb deprived. Those are I think my weakest areas, outside of everything. I would’ve considered a full spit, an upper lower split, but not a tbt + whatever else needs to be done. Thanks for the suggestion and I am indeed going to incorporate it.
5x5 is where I will start. I like the 10x3 but I have been doing it, so I’m thinking 5x5, to 20 reppers, then maybe a 10x3. Its a long way off, but seems like a logical progression.
But to get back to what you said before about strength before size you have 5x5(strength+size), 20 reppers (size), 10x3 (strength), so strength to size or size to strength all depends where you are in total. I think 5x5 is the best place to start, considering I’m not a total beginner(3x5) but not strong enough to focus on some moving some maximal weights.
I still want to get to 10% bf, but it will wait until next Summer, hopefully when I have some added strength and don’t feel like a weakling walking around lean. I might just bunk the whole idea as well depending on how my body comp changes.
9/1/08 Screwing my head back on…
9/2/08 Back at It…
Warm Up:
4 min easy row
DROM
Cleans:
WU- 95x6, 115x5, 135x6 (from hang)
Work- 155x3,3,3, 165x3,3,3,3,3,3 (from floor)
(1 min rest)
Back Squat:
WU- 135x8, 165x6, 185x5, 205x5
Work- 225x5,5,5,4,3 (2 min rest)
…Getting used to 5x5 w/ working weight.
Bent Rows:
135x8, 155x5,5, 165x5,5,5 (1 min rest)
…Need to go heavier on these
1-Arm DB Bench:
40x10, 60x8/7 (Pain in left shoulder)
DB External Rotations:
10x8,8,8
OH Shrugs:
Barx8, 75x10,10,10
…Need to go heavier on these too. First time I did them though.
…Overall pretty poor workout. I feel like shit. At least I got back in the gym. Need to plan out my support workout. I’m doing the shotgun approach, one day heavy compound movements, then one day core/back extensions/maybe some calves and biceps/and maybe some unilateral leg work/delt raises and other such crap. I want my legs to grow more than anything, so I’ll probably include some supplementary leg work if I am splitting my workouts between squat and deadlift.
…Slowly working up kcal. Goal for this week is between 3000-3500 kcal. Next week I’ll bump it up another 500. I’ll probably stay between 3500-4000 for a couple weeks to see how it goes. No low carb, Surge pwo and some carbs with dinner, otherwise its meat and veggies.
Looking good. Couple of ideas
On squat days I like to do good mornings. It seems to help a lot for the next deadlift. Vice versa - if its a DL day I do some sissy and hack squat supersets. For me this means I can hit the legs and lower back twice a week without doing Squats and DLs on both days.
Really try to nail your calories for the next week. You mention 3000 - 3500 and this sounds reasonable if the first is for your non training days and 3500 is kept for gym days. The more exact you are the better your muscle to fat gains are going to be (I’m sure you know this but still worth saying).
Have you worked out your maintenance calories?
I think my maintenance calories are 2800 kcal, although that was before I started my dieting phase. I was about 160 lbs. I just weighed myself and I am 180 lbs. I really can’t believe it myself, but I am a lot heavier now than when I started dieting, granted the last 3 weeks of my diet were playing with the ckd, and then last weekend I just binged.
Either way, the diet plan is the next thing I am going to work on. I’m going to have to buy more meat and plan out bigger meals. From about 2000 to 3500 is a big jump, and I need to work on figuring out how much food I need to make and prepare for the week. I’m about 3300 kcal for the day right now, and I could get 4000-4500 in easily with a couple changes from what I am doing now. I log everything in fitday and am used to it from dieting so I can be pretty exact with my diet.
I’m thinking about getting back on the AD for this bulk, just to control the fat gains and to give it a solid try. I’m going to go for a couple weeks normal and see how I look/feel. My carbs are pretty low as it is, because I am not used to buying them and don’t have anything in the house really except for some yams, beans, and oats.
Otherwise, this weekend I’m going to sit down and refine my nutritional approach as I jumped into this rather hastily.
Thanks for the additional lower body exercises. I need more exercises than just squats and deadlifts.
9/3/08 Rest
Exhausted. I was falling asleep at work and got a good amount of sleep last night. Rest day today, some light stretching and cooking, and back in the gym tomorrow.
I’ll probably write out a full routine this weekend and start it on Monday.
Rework your maintenance calories just in case. If you’ve added muscle over this time, which I assume you have, this number should be slightly higher all else considered
9/4/08 Lift
Warm Up:
25 bw squats + 15 push ups x 2
Grasso/Smith Complex
Dislocates/Leg Swings/DROM
Snatch (1 min rest between work sets):
WU - 65x5, 85x4, 95x4 (from hang)
Work -
115x1,1,1 (3 pos snatch resetting at floor)
135x2,2,2,2,2 (from hang)
…Felt Easy
Back Squat:
WU - 135x8, 185x5, 205x5
Work- 225x5,5,5
…Reduced Volume a Bit
OH Press+Pull Ups:
Cancelled Due to Shoulder Problem
Low Cable Row+Push Ups:
120lb+bwx10+25,12+20,12+14,12+15
Leg Press:
3 platesx12,12,12
…First time on the leg press machine
Intersweat, I’ll do some new calorie calcs and work out a routine this weekend. You think I should be aiming to gain 1 lb a week?
I think I’m going to drop the shotgun in favor of a upper/lower split. I can get more lower body volume in this way, and do my prehab/core/and weak points addressing on upper body day.
1lb a week is a good general rule for the natural lifter. I’ve known people to gain more and less than a pound but after a few weeks you should get a feel for it.
I’ll give you an example of my current routine for posterior chain/quads.
Deadlift 10 x (3 x 390lbs) Pretty tough
compound set
sissy squat 2 x (8 x BW + 30lb)
Hack squat 2 x (8 x BW + 40lb)
Face Pulls 3 x (8 x BW + 27.5lb)
Pull Overs 3 x (8 x 115lbs)
This is really a Back day as you can see with some quad work.
The other big day was Monday.
Box squats 10 x (3 x 270) Too light
Good mornings 2 x(8 x 170)
1 x(10 x 140)
Pull-ups 12 x BW
10 x BW
8 x BW
T-Bar(Arnie style) 2 x (10 x 170)
1 x (8 x 170)
The squat was too light but just been working my weights out for 10 x 3 on the BOX Squat. Both workouts done within the hour. I do pressing and arms on Tue and Thursday. I love 2 on 1 off 2 on 1 off but my gym now closes on Sundays.
Just thought you might like to know ;o)
Thanks. I’m going to work on a routine this weekend. I’m going to start out the calories kind of low and throw in some cardio, as I put a couple more pounds on from inactivity and post diet binging.
I think I’m going to keep a pretty detailed excel spreadsheet until I get a good baseline down for how my body responds to different kcals and macro breakdowns.
Do you use dumbbells for your hack squats?
What about for the face pulls?
Your weight recording seems odd as I figured hack squats would be barbell, and face pulls on a stack. I guess you can do them leaning with some rings or blast straps.
Are you doing the shotgun approach currently? I was thinking about moving to an upper/lower, so I can really focus on more leg work. If you are doing the shotgun, what do your assistance days look like?
Thanks for your input. Its much appreciated.
The hack squats are on a very old angled hack squat machine.
The face pulls are interesting. On a smith machine I put the bar on the lowest hooks and hang from it like a horizontal pull-up with my feet raised to above parallel on a bench. Then my training partner loads the plate on my chest/stomach.
Pull my upper chest to the bar and next day I can feel it right across the back, opposite to where the bar hit my chest. Hope that explains it.
I’ve been at this so long now I don’t really do a given routine but I would say its sort of “similar” to the shotgun. I have to consider who I’m training with at the time and get something that fits all. I’ve 2 guys at the minute (they started lifting with me in Jan when I started back from a 2 year lay off).
Tue.
Hang clean and press 10 x 3
Incline Press on Smith 3 x 8/7/6
Bi’s and Tri’s I use compound sets
3 sets of preacher/alt db/hammer/1 negative chin
3 sets of weighted dips/pushdowns/o’head extensions.
Fri
Flat bench 10sets x 3
Alt DB shoulder press 3 x 6
Bis and Tris compound sets. 3 circuits with different exercises.
I keep a real eye on progression on the first 2 exercises of EVERY workout. Strength increase is prime concern… 2nd half of the workouts are definitely more BB orientated.
This workout only started in August and I’ll take it through to Xmas all being well. Modifying at the end of September and November. I normally deload for a week on volume just before we attempt a week of 1RM. After that we will modify rep ranges and exercises accordingly but the routine will still be very recognizable.
It’s good to type this stuff out just to clarify in your own head. Never done it before ;o) I’ve always kept a training diary but this is different.
Anyway I feel that this suits us at this particular time and, btw, 2 of us our dieting.
not sure if this has answered all of your questions but its answered some of my own ;o)
9/6/08 Lift
Warm Up:5 min Air Dyne (71cal)
Upper Body Stretch
DROM
…Shoulders and back were tight
Squat Clean from Floor:
WU - 95x5, 135x5,5 155x3
Work - 175x1,2,2,2,2,2,2,0 (1 min rest)
…Hit myself in the chin w/ the bar @ 155 warming up. Could’ve knocked a tooth out
…This was a good weight to work with too as I was slowing down at the end then just couldn’t do it. Form needs work too.
Deadlift:
WU - 175x5,205x4
Work - 225x5,5,5 (2 min rest)
…Still not comfortable with form. Going to keep practicing light, focusing on form up and especially form lowering.
Neutral Grip DB Flat Bench:
WU - 45x12
Work - 60x12, 70x12,10, 5 (1:30 rest)
Face Pulls + 45 deg Back Extension:
70lbs+BWx 12+15, 15+12, 15+12 (No Rest)
EZ Bar Curls + Sitting Calf Machine:
25lb plates+45lbx 10+20, 10+20, 8+16 (No Rest)
…Lower back is definitely a weak point. Going to focus more on it. I’m going to keep working the cleans and snatches too, simply because they are fun and require a little more focus on concentration to actual be successful in the lift.