These Cops Are Crazy

Off Topic
61

I just went through some of your other anti-law enforcement threads. Did you get a speeding ticket or something? Why do you hate cops so much?

[quote]PGA wrote:
NDM wrote:
Maybe they were telling him to get up so they didn’t have to wrestle with him. I’m not sure. I wasn’t there, and neither were you. The video is shit, and neither “side” can be proven.

I don’t try to justify cops abusing their authority. Those individuals should have their badges revoked. I’m just saying that this video doesn’t conclude to anything really. A kid was tasered. He was resisting. Failure to leave a premises after you have been asked to leave is an unlawful action which may lead to an arrest, and if you resist that arrest, you are breaking another law.

There was an episode of COPS that had a very similar situation. Some guy refused to leave a bar, the police told him at least 15 times to leave, and finally they sprayed him and hit him a few times with a baton. They were justified in doing so. No one has to actually commit an act of violence for police to use violence. If they feel that there is the potential for a subject to harm them, anyone else, or himself, they can use force.

Maybe these cops did abuse their power? Maybe they didn’t? If they did, then they should be punished accordingly. And trust me, no one hates dirty cops more, than cops.

How can you resist arrest lying on your stomach with arms handcuffed behind your back?

I can understand tasering to get someone into cuffs but to taser someone because they didnt get up? Please…[/quote]

62

UCLA suffers alot of gang-related crimes, so it’s only fair that he be asked to leave because he had no I.D. The dumbass should have just done it, and after being hit once, he should have done it, same with the second and third times.

63

[quote]PGA wrote:
Seriously, how hard is it to carry someone out?[/quote]

It’s also very easy to injure someone while carrying them out, especially if they decide to resist.

Should they have tazed him while he was handcuffed? I don’t know, I’m not an expert on the subject. However, I don’t think the situation is the “obvious abuse of power” some people seem to think it is.

My point is merely that forcibly handcuffing someone and then carrying them out of a room is not obviously safer than tazering them, especially since a tazer causes no permanent injuries; my understanding is that the pain stops as soon as the tazering stops.

64

[quote]PGA wrote:
How can you resist arrest lying on your stomach with arms handcuffed behind your back?

I can understand tasering to get someone into cuffs but to taser someone because they didnt get up? Please…[/quote]

resisting arrest can be as simple as not complying to a police officer’s commands. This kid was not getting up after being told numerous times to do so. thats resisting arrest. Who cares if he had been tazered already. That shit hurts for the few seconds ur getting hit, then its over and ur fine(as showed in the demonstration, and from personal experience).

As for the issue of carrying the person out or tazzering him, it depends on that departments policy and officer discretion. As mentioned already, sometimes trying to carry someone out, even if their handcuffed, can be more harmful than being tazzered. Not to mention theres more risk involved for the police officers.

Personally, if theres 3 cops i think they couldve just dragged him out, i wouldve. Bottom line, its hard to tell from this video exactly what the surrounding circumstances were, so ill reserve judgement.

65

[quote]Dweezil wrote:
JD430 wrote:

Hey police tactics expert,

It can be a lot more dangerous to wrestle with a suspect than employ a less lethal option. The risks are numerous …transmission of disease, injuries to both parties, and it just looks bad.

Hey, criminal defense attorney,

He was non-violent and said he would leave. As far as going from wrestling with a suspect to using a taser, if that is your chain of progression as far as force is considered then it’s clear you know less than shit about “police tactics.”[/quote]

You dont have a fucking clue. Go talk about something else.

First off, many police agencies dont have a direct force continuum anymore(what you call a “chain of progression”). They are simply adopting a reasonable man officer standard. We dont have to progress in any linear way anymore. Guess how I know? Im a veteran police officer and a tactics instructor.

That means as long as your response is “reasonable”, you dont have to walk up the steps one by one. A taser is actually considered a lower level of force in some agencies than a joint lock.

None of you can see shit in that video.
I watched it repeatedly. We have no idea at what point the guy was handcuffed, we have no idea what he did before hand and we have no idea what caused him to get tased. If he tried to resist in anyway(kick, bite etc), even if cuffed, there is no problem zapping him or spraying him with OC. The effects of a taser wear off quickly and he would have been able to stand and walk almost immediately after, which means he was probably laying down on purpose(at the least).

The taser is a great tool. It almost never causes any real injury, which is safer for the suspect and the police. Yea it is intimidating and doesnt look nice on film. In actuality, it is much safer than wrestling with someone, especially considering the physical abilities of many police hires today.

Sadly, the police use of force rarely looks nice. It is a lot like surgery. Somewhat shocking to people that have never dealt with it but sometimes it is necessitated by circumstances. And just like you dont know what the fuck the doctor is doing when he is poking around in a body, most of you making these snap judgements have even less of a clue about what a cop does.

If you are going to be so quick to critique, at least lets take a show of hands here on who has fought with a resisting subject. You have? Good. Have you done it with the goal in mind of injuring him as little as possible, all the while you are wearing a bunch of weapons around your waist? Not many people left I would wager. Ive been there. Who else?

Bottom line is he was someplace he didnt belong. Spare us all the usual “racial profiling” shit. If he would have walked out the door, I cant imagine this
going any further. The clip starts with “get your hands off of me” which usually is a clue that the jerkoff doesnt want to do what he is being told.

Im going to try and find a more complete video here that shows what happened earlier and maybe that will shed some light.

66

NDM,

Police officers will never use the term “god complex”, unless one of them is really out of line. And if so, you and me wouldn’t hear it, that would be between them.

If you dont’ believe there are officers out there with the biggest EGO’s on this earth you are being neive.

Its a fact. Its a fact that there are officers who abuse the authority that they are given, and even use authority that they are not given.

My problem is officers should not be able to make actions without fearing retribution. Im not saying to take up arms against officers, that is the furthest things form the the truth.

But if an officer decides to have your jaw rewired from you explaining you have a right to be on your front yard for example, you think that should be covered up and protected?

PO’s are subject to the laws of this land like the rest of us.

If you value your rights as a citizen it will be hard not to agree with what I’m saying here.

All Im saying is that the line is going to be crossed, and there should be a penalty for it.

67

By the way, here is a quote from the CNN article(not exactly a cop friendly source):

“She said police tried to escort Tabatabainejad, 23, out of the library after he refused to provide identification. Tabatabainejad instead encouraged others at the library to join his resistance, and when a crowd began to gather, police used the stun gun on him, Greenstein said.”

Police are taught to remove an instigator from a crowd control(in this case, potential crowd control) situation. Usually, it only takes a few, or even one, trouble maker to turn a situation into an uncontrollable shit storm.

Hopefully, you do it as fast as possible, but a resisting instigator doesnt always go along quickly. He probably got whacked with the Taser in the hopes it would quickly bring him under control and then he could be taken outside. Why it took so long, Im not sure. There are issues with just ripping him off the ground and carrying him out depending on what his behavior was like and if the officers were physically capable of doing so in the first place.

68

[quote]baretta wrote:

That guy was just making a scene, he should have left when he was asked. I’m sure if Mr canadian or american went to Iran and started some shit, tasered would be the best thing that could happen to you.
[/quote]

Sometimes I T-Nation makes me want to fucking scream…how can you compare this to what may or may not happen in Iran? This was a fucking American citizen being abused here in America. Lets hold ourselves to higher standards than,“well we might be fucked up but we’re better than those guys are.”

69

These cops are incompetent. If three cops do not have the verbal skills to get some college kid to leave a university library, I would hate to see what what how they act in more serious situations. Can imagine if this situation occurred in an inner-city environment with the same officers and a less timid crowd?

I am surprised that the pro-police posters on this thread are not more critical of the officers actions. They put themselves in possible danger from the crowd and made a spectacle out of an event that would have gone unnoticed if they had more professionalism, patience and maybe a smile or two. Instead, members of that community are probably more likely to see themselves as being at odds with the police. They just made the job harder for every police officer on that campus.

70

I don’t really disagree with anything you have said here. There are officers with huge ego’s out there that don’t treat people as well as they should, and usually their peers don’t like that.

[quote]djrobins wrote:
NDM,

Police officers will never use the term “god complex”, unless one of them is really out of line. And if so, you and me wouldn’t hear it, that would be between them.[/quote]

You’re implying that police officers don’t talk about things with other people. Well, if you know them well enough, and knew them before they were cops, they will usually tell you how it REALLY is straight up unless they were extremely corrupt.

[quote]If you dont’ believe there are officers out there with the biggest EGO’s on this earth you are being neive.

Its a fact. Its a fact that there are officers who abuse the authority that they are given, and even use authority that they are not given.[/quote]

I agree with you.

Officers are always under the microscope, and are investigated for even the smallest public complaint, 99% of them being pure total bullshit. Imagine having that kind of scrutiny at your place of work.

I don’t know where you’re going with this one. I don’t think a cop is gonna roll up to your pad and smash your jaw up while you’re taking out the garbage. However, if you are in a private area that you are not allowed to be in, are asked to leave, sit down, and make trouble, you should expect to be forced to leave.

Wrong. They’re subject to the same laws as you, and more.

[quote]If you value your rights as a citizen it will be hard not to agree with what I’m saying here.

All Im saying is that the line is going to be crossed, and there should be a penalty for it.[/quote]

In my other posts, I said that officers who abuse their powers should be penalized. I couldn’t agree with you more. I just HATE it when people jump on the backs of Cops when a few knuckleheads cross the line. I’m not saying that the UCLA cops crossed the line, that still has to be determined.

71

[quote]Shaved wrote:
baretta wrote:
Shaved wrote:
NDM wrote:
PGA wrote

ITs a combination of that guy being a dick and the cops sick of putting up with dickheads. If its your job to deal with assholes all day, you probably have little patience for them after a while. i’m sure someone will say…its their job, but no human being is totally unemotional.

It’s their job. If they don’t have the constitution for such a job, then they should apply elsewhere.

So it’s ok for someone to use violence if they are fed up with bullshit? That is basically what you are saying. On that note, I backhanded my girlfriend yesterday. It was a combination of her being a bitch and me having to deal with bitches every day. She must have had it coming.

(I of course didn’t hit her)

[/quote]

maybe the bitch needed it… :slight_smile:

72

[quote]Dorso wrote:
These cops are incompetent. If three cops do not have the verbal skills to get some college kid to leave a university library, I would hate to see what what how they act in more serious situations. Can imagine if this situation occurred in an inner-city environment with the same officers and a less timid crowd?

[/quote]

You’re way off base. It is always desirable to talk someone into doing what you want them to do. However, not everybody goes for that. If this genius was indeed imploring all of his fellow students to start mass civil disobedience, he wasnt about to be talked out of there. To assume it is automatically possible to talk someone out if your verbal skills are good enough shows you have never been there.

If you have found the magical “verbal skills” that work on everyone everytime, let me know. I am interested in buying your secret.

73

[quote]Dorso wrote:
These cops are incompetent. If three cops do not have the verbal skills to get some college kid to leave a university library, I would hate to see what what how they act in more serious situations. Can imagine if this situation occurred in an inner-city environment with the same officers and a less timid crowd?[/quote]

These cops were not the most professional that I’ve seen. The probably should have grabbed him, and hauled him outside. But were they wrong for doing what they did? Like Chad Waterbury says, “There’s more than one way to skin a cat”.

I’m sure that they didn’t march in there and start zapping the guy. They probably asked him to leave, and he put the spectacle on. Go read the recent news about this story.

74

Forgetting the argument of use of force… the officer’s clearly warned the guy several times what would happen if he didn’t obey… and very surprisingly, they delivered?

That guy is a jackass, he deserved it.

75

How about this:

The guy’s on the floor, handcuffed. Ask him once or twice to get up, and if he refuses, two POs’ pick him up and carry him toward the exit. He’s cuffed so he doesn’t represent any danger to anyone. THEN if he starts kicking and screaming, use the taser.
This probably would not take more than 30secs, and probably wouldn’t create such a huge scene.
Instead they asked him 100 times to get up, and then tasered him several times.

Also, I’ve seen a few people get tasered on Youtube, and it does seem like many are unable to move for a while after getting tasered. I can imagine it’s got to suck not being able to move while the POs are screaming “TURN AROUND AND PUT YOUR HANDS BEHIND YOUR BACK, OR YOU’RE GETTIN’ IT AGAIN!!”
Don’t officers get information about people sometimes not being able to move after getting tasered?

76

Why did the student need to leave the library in the first place?

77

Why did the student need to leave the library in the first place?

78

[quote]djrobins wrote:
Why did the student need to leave the library in the first place?[/quote]

He had no student I.D, which means he was not allowd in the library.

Basically, follow the law or get shocked. The kid went out without his dignity, kicking and screaming like the spoiled little bitch he was. Mommy and daddy probably protected him his whole life, and when the cops gave him an order he didn’t want to take, he threw a fit, and got his CNS licked for it.

79

So you dont have your ID. Your asked to leave, you dont leave, cops attempt to physically restrain you you fight back and they tased you?

Thats how it went down?

80

[quote]djrobins wrote:
So you dont have your ID. Your asked to leave, you dont leave, cops attempt to physically restrain you you fight back and they tased you?

Thats how it went down?[/quote]

The story is he may have had his ID but refused to show it because they randomly chose him for the ID check. He thought he was being racially profiled and fought against it by refusing to leave the library. The cops came and handcuffed him, he went limp in protest and didn’t want to leave, they started tazering him.

He was showing NO physical threat of any sort, and from what I saw in the video the police made little or no effort to actually carry him out. If he started to fight them then by all means, tazer the shit out of the fucker, but he didn’t.