There's a Lot Wrong with Britain

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
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[quote]Sifu wrote:
Something my mother taught me is that in polite company you don’t discuss politics or religion. The reason why is because people usually have deeply felt views about both and they may not be the same as yours. So it is a real good way to start a heated arguement. Doing it in a place where alcohol is consumed is begging for trouble. It’s no wonder why you are paranoid about someone getting a gun and shooting you.[/quote]

Why should we be afraid to take on sensitive issues? Because your mommy told you it was impolite? Yes people have deeply felt views, so I challenge them to defend those views. I learn a bit, maybe they learn a bit. The problem is when people can’t leave a discussion at just a discussion - they need to resort to violence to make a point. I’m not afraid of standing up for what I believe, but I shouldn’t feel that my life is at stake if I do. And so what if alcohol is being consumed. This is the lamest shit I’ve ever heard.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
What I meant by people like you is you sound like a person who looks for trouble or tries to instigate it. I’ve seen your type before, you’re a selfish drama queen who isn’t happy until you have drama going on and you don’t give a damn about how it affects anyone else. [/quote]

You don’t know a thing about me but you’re judging me based on my opinions about gun violence and gun control. People like you are ignorant, sensitive, and irrational.

[quote]Sifu wrote:
In my experience Windsor Ontario on a Friday or Saturday night is like a giant hockey rink where you can be assaulted by absolute strangers just walking down the sidewalk. Canadians on that side of the river are nowhere as civil as they are when they are in Detroit![/quote]

I know Windsor is a rough place. Perhaps you should paint all Canadians with a broad brush based on your experience with some of the roughest thugs Canada has to offer. Actually it appears that you already have. Dick.

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[quote]GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
The Eagle Scout part of me weeps like the Indian having garbage thrown at his feet. What’s next? Are they going to take away matches? For fucks sake I joined the Boy Scouts to shoot, cut, fire, and canoe my way to excellence.[/quote]

They are not taking anyone’s knives away. A sensationalist newspaper in the UK has misrepresented the facts to stir up people who don’t bother fact checking into a rage against the nanny state.

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Push, where in the hell did you learn to write? You have quite a way with words, brother.

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Some how I doubt you’re going to get shot for standing up for your political view points. Most people don’t give a shit about politics. I’m gonna go ahead and guess that 99.99% of shootings have nothing to do with a political/religious/scientific debate getting out of hand.

If you go around making trouble with people, especially drunk people, then yes it will catch up to you. You might get your head blown off in Houston, but you might get stabbed in London or pummeled to death in Canada.

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[quote]Sifu wrote:
NinjaTreeFrog wrote:
Sifu wrote:
If you like to go around arguing with people in bars you are an idiot who is asking for trouble. It is people like you that we need to be able to protect ourselves from. Having spent most of my life living less than 20 miles from Canada I am well aware of just how uninhibited about assaulting people you Canadians are. Personally I think that if you Canadians had to worry about someone shooting you, you would be more civil.

I like to have religious and political discussions with fellow human beings, some of whom I don’t always see eye to eye with. When you say that “it’s people like you that we need to be able to protect ourselves from”, are you referring to us violent Canadians (?) or just people who don’t share your particular worldview. In my experience, most Canadians I’ve disagreed with on a topic are capable of civil discourse, even without the threat of a bullet in the head. If that’s all that holds you back from being civil then it speaks volumes to your character.

Something my mother taught me is that in polite company you don’t discuss politics or religion. The reason why is because people usually have deeply felt views about both and they may not be the same as yours. So it is a real good way to start a heated arguement. Doing it in a place where alcohol is consumed is begging for trouble. It’s no wonder why you are paranoid about someone getting a gun and shooting you.

What I meant by people like you is you sound like a person who looks for trouble or tries to instigate it. I’ve seen your type before, you’re a selfish drama queen who isn’t happy until you have drama going on and you don’t give a damn about how it affects anyone else.

In my experience Windsor Ontario on a Friday or Saturday night is like a giant hockey rink where you can be assaulted by absolute strangers just walking down the sidewalk. Canadians on that side of the river are nowhere as civil as they are when they are in Detroit![/quote]

Good to see you pay lots of attention to your old dears advice :wink:

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[quote]Unaware wrote:

Why should we be afraid to take on sensitive issues? Because your mommy told you it was impolite? Yes people have deeply felt views, so I challenge them to defend those views. I learn a bit, maybe they learn a bit. The problem is when people can’t leave a discussion at just a discussion - they need to resort to violence to make a point. I’m not afraid of standing up for what I believe, but I shouldn’t feel that my life is at stake if I do. And so what if alcohol is being consumed. This is the lamest shit I’ve ever heard.

Some how I doubt you’re going to get shot for standing up for your political view points. Most people don’t give a shit about politics. I’m gonna go ahead and guess that 99.99% of shootings have nothing to do with a political/religious/scientific debate getting out of hand.

If you go around making trouble with people, especially drunk people, then yes it will catch up to you. You might get your head blown off in Houston, but you might get stabbed in London or pummeled to death in Canada.

[/quote]

You’re probably right that most shootings aren’t the result of a heated discussion by a couple of educated chaps in a pub. It’s not like I’m going around making trouble with people, it’s just in some venues here I really need to hold my tongue because there IS an element in society that are armed and irrational. Not all Americans - I need to make that clear. I don’t think 99% of Americans are so hot-headed as to shoot someone over a debate. The thing that scares me is there are SOME people that are and there’s a good chance they’re armed.

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[quote]NinjaTreeFrog wrote:
Chushin wrote:
NinjaTreeFrog wrote:

But I guess you’re only really free if you have the tools at your disposal to blow someone’s head off on a whim.

and

Is it not possible to simply have a civil and respectful discussion …

Hmmm…

Is the first what you Canadians consider an example of the second?

I think it’s quite a bit more civil and respectful than telling someone to go back to where they came from. In fact, from the daily news reports here in Houston this seems to be a very fair judgement of what easy access to handguns results in. Look up shooting in Houston and see how many seperate news stories pop up. Not a week goes in this City where someone isn’t killed or wounded by gunfire. Is it disrespectful to bring facts into the discussion? Perhaps my choice of words offended you, but I think it’s a fair and accurate statement considering the overwhelming cases of gun violence over trivial disagreements that are reported in the news. Road rage shootings. Nightclub shooting. Domestic disputes resulting in shootings. Car jackings resulting in shooting. Shootings at schools. Shootings in the workplace. The list goes on.[/quote]

Your histrionics, ignorant exagerations and misrepresentations of the facts are an insult to our intelligence. Insulting our intelligence is disrespectful.

Houston is a massive city with well over 5 million people. With that many people there are going to be things that happen on a weekly basis. They have their bad areas where a lot of crime happens, but they also have a lot of good areas where there is very little crime. We all know this, but you are trying to play it off like the bad areas are representative of the entire metropolitan area. You are insulting our intelligence by doing so.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
NinjaTreeFrog wrote:

…You’re probably right that most shootings aren’t the result of a heated discussion by a couple of educated chaps in a pub…I don’t think 99% of Americans are so hot-headed as to shoot someone over a debate…

But yet you had the gall to lob the fiction grenade that this is somewhat common right in the middle of this thread. Then a truth meister or two comes along and calls you on your blatant dishonesty and you act like a girl who just got told she has a fat ass.[/quote]

http://www.texansforgunsafety.org/world.htm

Some facts. Not opinion. Not anecdotal. No name calling. Discuss if you wish.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
Then a truth meister or two comes along and calls you on your blatant dishonesty and you act like a girl who just got told she has a fat ass.[/quote]

That is because all Truth Meisters are Nazis.

Hence the name.

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[quote]pushharder wrote:
LankyMofo wrote:
Push, where in the hell did you learn to write? You have quite a way with words, brother.

I have a high school education.[/quote]

Looks like my pubic scool dipoma ain’t do me no good.

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[quote]NinjaTreeFrog wrote:
pushharder wrote:
NinjaTreeFrog wrote:

…You’re probably right that most shootings aren’t the result of a heated discussion by a couple of educated chaps in a pub…I don’t think 99% of Americans are so hot-headed as to shoot someone over a debate…

But yet you had the gall to lob the fiction grenade that this is somewhat common right in the middle of this thread. Then a truth meister or two comes along and calls you on your blatant dishonesty and you act like a girl who just got told she has a fat ass.

http://www.texansforgunsafety.org/world.htm

Some facts. Not opinion. Not anecdotal. No name calling. Discuss if you wish.[/quote]

However:

INTRODUCTION

In Guns and Violence: The English Experience (Harvard, 2002), historian Joyce Lee Malcolm applies the tools of history to the vexatious question “Do Guns Cause Violence?” As a criminologist, not an historian, I do not presume to offer a book review, but only try to place Malcolm’s contribution in the context of extant social scientific and historical evidence on that question.

Now here is another idea:

Do welfare state and/or democracies cause crime? After all, if the crime rate had increased 40 fold after the invention of guns you would be for banning them.

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[quote]NinjaTreeFrog wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
NinjaTreeFrog wrote:
But I guess you’re only really free if you have the tools at your disposal to blow someone’s head off on a whim.

That isn’t the definition of freedom I know.

However, self defense is an inseparable part of being free which does require certain means. If one has to rely on someone else for his protection he can never be free.

What you describe is mere thuggery.

Interesting post. My question for you is - where do you draw the line? I could protect myself better if I had grenades and landmines at my disposal as well. Or a tank. Or some surface to air missles. Maybe a couple of ICBMs.

In any society there’s some limit to the tools that are available for self defense. Where the limit is depends on where your right to defend yourself becomes a safety risk to the public. Some, like myself, think that handguns and assult rifles are proven risks to society as a whole if they are not regulated. To be more specific, because handguns and assault rifles are designed for the sole purpose of killing another human being, I beleive there is no merit in permitting ownership of these weapons to any person not in law enforcement.

The other argument that I’ve heard is that it makes governments accountable to the people. If you’re permitted to carry a handgun, and the government is permitted to operate fighter planes, assault helocopters, tanks and missles, what accountability is there really on the government? They still have the upper hand. Meanwhile the citizens are killing each other in record numbers.
So… where do YOU draw the line?[/quote]

Reading your posts I can see that you like to spew a bunch of ignorant bullshit, while exagerating or misrepresenting facts along with a liberal use of histrinoics. It’s no wonder why you are afraid of people turning violent on you. Because your level of ignorance is astounding.

To see how your ignorant ideology works in the real world one only needs to look across the border of Texas into Mexico. Mexico is a lawless free for all with a national murder rate that is as high as Detroit.

All the fighter jets, attack helicopters, tanks and missiles in the world can’t change the basic fact of life that it still takes an infantryman with a rifle and or hand gun to go into an area and control it. If the American army couldn’t subdue and control 2 million Iraqis in Sadr city there is no way they could subdue and control 300 million Americans.

Last but certainly not least. What record numbers of killings are you referring to? It certainly can’t be the US because the murder rate here has been declining every year for the last 17 years!

Or are you referring to Toronto and their 2005 “year of the gun”? Or is it 2007 when the 2005 record was broken?

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/toronto/archive/2007/12/27/murder-rate-surpasses-quot-year-of-the-gun-quot-2005.aspx

Murder rate surpasses “Year of the Gun” 2005

TORONTO â?? The stray bullet that struck and killed 15-year-old Jane Creba while she was shopping on a busy downtown street on Boxing Day 2005, left an indelible mark on the psyche of Canadaâ??s largest city.

In Toronto, 2005 is still known as The Year of The Gun.

Yet two years later, murder rates have spiked to even higher levels.

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It’s the urban gangbangers making us look bad. To hell if my rights should be stripped because of misguided policies, and the self-destructive culture festering in these communities.

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[quote]Cockney Blue wrote:
GhorigTheBeefy wrote:
The Eagle Scout part of me weeps like the Indian having garbage thrown at his feet. What’s next? Are they going to take away matches? For fucks sake I joined the Boy Scouts to shoot, cut, fire, and canoe my way to excellence.

They are not taking anyone’s knives away. A sensationalist newspaper in the UK has misrepresented the facts to stir up people who don’t bother fact checking into a rage against the nanny state.[/quote]

You are so predictable in your posts. It doesn’t matter what they do in Britain you will come up with a way to minimize and/or rationalize any British nonsense rather than face up to the essential facts of the matter.

I seriously cannot understand how or why this would not raise some concern with you that people in Britain are so out of touch with reality are that they are worried about Boy Scouts with Swiss Army knives. This is the Boy Scouts they are worrying about. Not Britians legions of alcoholic, drug addled, feral children who go around gang banging with Rambo knives.

Your ability to just tune things out and rationalize what is going over there is astounding. I am at a loss for words with this one. You have beat me. If you cannot see something inherently wrong when the British people are so paranoid and deeply distrusting of their fellow Britain that they view a Boy Scout with a Swiss Army knife as a danger to society there is something seriously wrong with you mentally.