The World's 10 Greatest Athletes

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
And for the record, Tiger not being on there is a joke. Tiger is the best athlete in the world; it doesn’t matter that he plays golf, he would be dominating whatever sport he put his mind to as a child- it just happened to be golf. His mental strength and focus is the best ever.
quote]

That’s a pretty assinine statement coming from this board with the average knowledge around here. I’d think you’d at least get some osmotic knowledge. He’d dominate whatever sport he put his mind to? LMFAO. You just sullied the difficulty of making the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc.

Gimme a damn break.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
And for the record, Tiger not being on there is a joke. Tiger is the best athlete in the world; it doesn’t matter that he plays golf, he would be dominating whatever sport he put his mind to as a child- it just happened to be golf. His mental strength and focus is the best ever.
quote]

That’s a pretty assinine statement coming from this board with the average knowledge around here. I’d think you’d at least get some osmotic knowledge. He’d dominate whatever sport he put his mind to? LMFAO. You just sullied the difficulty of making the NBA, NFL, MLB, etc.

Gimme a damn break. [/quote]

I love how you assert your opinion without any facts and assume it is laughable that anybody would disagree with you. I just “sullied the difficulty of making the NBA?” Perhaps you “sullied” the difficulty of being the most dominating clutch performer in any sport in history?

I’ve already stated that I don’t think the “World’s Greatest Athlete” should describe the person who performs the best at a series of arbitrary combine-style tests. You may disagree with that, that’s fine. However, I find it just as comical to anoint Lebron James as the “Greatest Athlete Ever” when he has never even won an MVP and been recognized as the best at his sport.

People seem to think I’m dense. I understand that Tiger cannot run as fast or jump as high as Lebron James. I think any 4 year-old can understand that. It is my assertion that “Greatest Athlete Ever” should describe somebody with unique physical abilities that dominates their competition. You may have a differing opinion on the definition and that’s fine.

I do think Tiger Woods would be a star at any sport if he would’ve started training for that sport at a young age. If that is so laughable to you, perhaps you discount how important mental skills are, which would surprise me, coming from somebody with your experience.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:

I do think Tiger Woods would be a star at any sport if he would’ve started training for that sport at a young age. If that is so laughable to you, perhaps you discount how important mental skills are, which would surprise me, coming from somebody with your experience.[/quote]

One thing I’ve noticed is that people who have never tried to play pro US Main 3 sports, have no clue how incredibly athletic you have to be to get there. And for someone like lebron to be so much above the rest at 19 is puuuurrreee genetic freakdom.

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:

I do think Tiger Woods would be a star at any sport if he would’ve started training for that sport at a young age. If that is so laughable to you, perhaps you discount how important mental skills are, which would surprise me, coming from somebody with your experience.

One thing I’ve noticed is that people who have never tried to play pro US Main 3 sports, have no clue how incredibly athletic you have to be to get there. And for someone like lebron to be so much above the rest at 19 is puuuurrreee genetic freakdom. [/quote]

I played basketball from the time I could walk and football as well although didn’t pick that up until a little later. At the NBA combine I would do just fine. I can get up higher than Russell Westbrook on a standing jump or off an approach. Ditto Bayless. I haven’t done the sprint tests, that’s not something I spend so much time training for, but I’m sure I’d do reasonably well there. Last I checked they are making millions and I’m typing on T-Nation from my parents house.

I’ve played with plenty of Div 1 ballers and have no problem keeping up with them from an athletic standpoint. So don’t give me the, “ohhh the peasantry cannot comprehend how athletic these guys are” deal. If there’s an alley-oop situation I can elevate with the best of them. However, over the course of the whole game I get my ass handed to me because I have no basketball skills.

Last I checked Paul Pierce wasn’t the world’s most “athletic” guy but he seems to be doing alright for himself.

There’s hundreds of guys you could pull off the streets who are just as “athletic” as Derrick Rose on these tests yet you put them in a game and he’ll wreck their shit. People who have played US Main 3 sports at any sort of high level know that.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:

I do think Tiger Woods would be a star at any sport if he would’ve started training for that sport at a young age. If that is so laughable to you, perhaps you discount how important mental skills are, which would surprise me, coming from somebody with your experience.

One thing I’ve noticed is that people who have never tried to play pro US Main 3 sports, have no clue how incredibly athletic you have to be to get there. And for someone like lebron to be so much above the rest at 19 is puuuurrreee genetic freakdom.

I played basketball from the time I could walk and football as well although didn’t pick that up until a little later. At the NBA combine I would do just fine. I can get up higher than Russell Westbrook on a standing jump or off an approach. Ditto Bayless.

I haven’t done the sprint tests, that’s not something I spend so much time training for, but I’m sure I’d do reasonably well there. Last I checked they are making millions and I’m typing on T-Nation from my parents house.

I’ve played with plenty of Div 1 ballers and have no problem keeping up with them from an athletic standpoint. So don’t give me the, “ohhh the peasantry cannot comprehend how athletic these guys are” deal.

If there’s an alley-oop situation I can elevate with the best of them. However, over the course of the whole game I get my ass handed to me because I have no basketball skills.

Last I checked Paul Pierce wasn’t the world’s most “athletic” guy but he seems to be doing alright for himself.

There’s hundreds of guys you could pull off the streets who are just as “athletic” as Derrick Rose on these tests yet you put them in a game and he’ll wreck their shit. People who have played US Main 3 sports at any sort of high level know that.
[/quote]

As a former basketball player, I agree with the gist of what you said. How then can you utter that Tiger nonsense that you uttered in an earlier post based upon the man’s dominance in a game that does not require any of the requisite athleticism of the NBA, NFL, et al.!!!

Granted, athleticism alone will not get you in the NBA as you correctly point out, but absent tremendous height, the NBA isn’t populated in any appreciable numbers by “unathletic” guys. And as to your comments about Pierce, it would be more accurate to say he is “relatively” unathletic compared to his peers.

And even that is misleading in the sense that he plays with smarts rather than trying to just blow by you or go above you. It doesn’t mean he can’t run or jump. You can see the same maturation in even MJ’s game as he became a veteran in the league. His first few years, as productive as they were, were marked by lots of wasted physical effort on the court.

As you learn the game, you learn economy of movement - not just because you’re getting older, because you understand the game better. Some never get it and some get it right away.

But I digress. One thing is clear. Tiger has never demonstrated any measure of the athleticism necessary to make it in the other sports - to say that he would “dominate” based upon his performance is an inarguably non-physical sport, without any evidence at all of conventional athleticism is just error.

Heck, if Tiger had at least a background in track or any other sport on any level at all, you could start musing about what he might be. But you have NOTHING to support such an outrageous statement. For all you know, Tiger could be dreadfully foot slow, among other failings. You don’t know. And that’s the point.

And I want to add there are thousands of athletes each year, with the same dedication and mental toughness, that fall short of making it. Dedication and sport preparation are requisite, but “making it” happens when preparation and talent meet.

Some people just get by on talent granted. But it is VERY rare someone gets by on mental toughness alone and subpar talent/genetics. At least in the NBA, NFL, etc.

One of the common markers of success for elite athletes was time spent preparing for their sport. So this dedication and drive you speak of is inherent in the elite, not an exception.

Even the laziest NBA guy you think just gets by on talent has probably spent 1000’s of hours playing his sport as a child, teenager and young adult. Mental toughness is what occurs during performance. Dedication, drive without talent = gym rat, not elite athlete. Mental toughness without talent = never say die gym rat, not elite athlete.

I could be overestimating Tiger. It’s certainly possible. However, I don’t think there’s a single athlete with the same mental skills that he has or the ability to constantly elevate his game when it matters. He could be dreadfully foot slow, but then again so is Kyle Korver and he’s doing alright in the NBA.

Regardless, it’s all speculation anyway. I think that if Tiger had taken to basketball, for example, when he was younger that he would’ve spent more time on, and developed, more of the physical abilities required for that. Of course, it’s totally possible that I’m talking way out of my ass here. Agree to disagree.

My main point is that “Greatest Athlete Alive” should not be determined by combine tests but my performance in their sport.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
Airtruth wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
TheBodyGuard wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:

I do think Tiger Woods would be a star at any sport if he would’ve started training for that sport at a young age. If that is so laughable to you, perhaps you discount how important mental skills are, which would surprise me, coming from somebody with your experience.

One thing I’ve noticed is that people who have never tried to play pro US Main 3 sports, have no clue how incredibly athletic you have to be to get there. And for someone like lebron to be so much above the rest at 19 is puuuurrreee genetic freakdom.

I played basketball from the time I could walk and football as well although didn’t pick that up until a little later. At the NBA combine I would do just fine.

I can get up higher than Russell Westbrook on a standing jump or off an approach. Ditto Bayless. I haven’t done the sprint tests, that’s not something I spend so much time training for, but I’m sure I’d do reasonably well there. Last I checked they are making millions and I’m typing on T-Nation from my parents house.

I’ve played with plenty of Div 1 ballers and have no problem keeping up with them from an athletic standpoint. So don’t give me the, “ohhh the peasantry cannot comprehend how athletic these guys are” deal.

If there’s an alley-oop situation I can elevate with the best of them. However, over the course of the whole game I get my ass handed to me because I have no basketball skills.

Last I checked Paul Pierce wasn’t the world’s most “athletic” guy but he seems to be doing alright for himself.

There’s hundreds of guys you could pull off the streets who are just as “athletic” as Derrick Rose on these tests yet you put them in a game and he’ll wreck their shit. People who have played US Main 3 sports at any sort of high level know that.

[/quote]

D1 and NBA are two totally different thing so don’t tell me how you played against this D1 guy or that D1 guy. JJ Reddick as bad as they talked about him was a pretty decent college athlete, yet EVERYONE knew his biggest problem was NBA athletecism and EVERYONE proved to be right.

Derrick Rose Combine numbers may have been great, but that does not directly equate to athletecism. Athletecism is much more than one all out sprint, and one all out vertical jump.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I could be overestimating Tiger. It’s certainly possible. However, I don’t think there’s a single athlete with the same mental skills that he has or the ability to constantly elevate his game when it matters. He could be dreadfully foot slow, but then again so is Kyle Korver and he’s doing alright in the NBA.

Regardless, it’s all speculation anyway. I think that if Tiger had taken to basketball, for example, when he was younger that he would’ve spent more time on, and developed, more of the physical abilities required for that. Of course, it’s totally possible that I’m talking way out of my ass here. Agree to disagree.

My main point is that “Greatest Athlete Alive” should not be determined by combine tests but my performance in their sport.[/quote]

My point is that we don’t know if you’re overestimating him or not. There simply is no evidence whatsoever of his athleticism.

Again, as with your example of Paul Pierce, but to a lesser extent, Kyle Korver is only RELATIVELY slow in relation to the more athletic players he is against. It doesn’t mean he is unathletic. He is not unathletic.

Speculation is correct sir! And it’s speculation to assume he would have developed certain abilities that may or may not have been absent. Think for a minute how difficult it is to get even knowledgeable lifters to address weaknesses.

Fact is that we tend to gravitate and do what we’re good at. If he picked up a basketball and sucked for his age, chances are he drops it - same with baseball, football, etc.

As for greatest athlete alive, that is absolutely subjective in and of itself and it depends, as you point out, how you wish to define it. What parameters will you measure greatness by?

I think at least in the context of their undertaking, they defined what skill set they used to judge their conclusions (I saw no reference to “combine tests”). Tiger does not deserve a mention under those criteria.

If success and performance in his or her sport were the sole criteria, he wins, hands down. Fair enough?

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I could be overestimating Tiger. It’s certainly possible. However, I don’t think there’s a single athlete with the same mental skills that he has or the ability to constantly elevate his game when it matters. He could be dreadfully foot slow, but then again so is Kyle Korver and he’s doing alright in the NBA.

Regardless, it’s all speculation anyway. I think that if Tiger had taken to basketball, for example, when he was younger that he would’ve spent more time on, and developed, more of the physical abilities required for that. Of course, it’s totally possible that I’m talking way out of my ass here. Agree to disagree.

My main point is that “Greatest Athlete Alive” should not be determined by combine tests but my performance in their sport.[/quote]

Kyle Korver was at the table next to me eating dinner last friday night, hahaha you are right he is very unathletic looking. I just though I’d share that, it made me laugh that you took a shot at him.

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
I could be overestimating Tiger. It’s certainly possible. However, I don’t think there’s a single athlete with the same mental skills that he has or the ability to constantly elevate his game when it matters. He could be dreadfully foot slow, but then again so is Kyle Korver and he’s doing alright in the NBA.

Regardless, it’s all speculation anyway. I think that if Tiger had taken to basketball, for example, when he was younger that he would’ve spent more time on, and developed, more of the physical abilities required for that. Of course, it’s totally possible that I’m talking way out of my ass here. Agree to disagree.

My main point is that “Greatest Athlete Alive” should not be determined by combine tests but my performance in their sport.[/quote]

My point is that we don’t know if you’re overestimating him or not. There simply is no evidence whatsoever of his athleticism.

Again, as with your example of Paul Pierce, but to a lesser extent, Kyle Korver is only RELATIVELY slow in relation to the more athletic players he is against. It doesn’t mean he is unathletic. He is not unathletic.

Speculation is correct sir! And it’s speculation to assume he would have developed certain abilities that may or may not have been absent. Think for a minute how difficult it is to get even knowledgeable lifters to address weaknesses.

Fact is that we tend to gravitate and do what we’re good at. If he picked up a basketball and sucked for his age, chances are he drops it - same with baseball, football, etc.

As for greatest athlete alive, that is absolutely subjective in and of itself and it depends, as you point out, how you wish to define it. What parameters will you measure greatness by?

I think at least in the context of their undertaking, they defined what skill set they used to judge their conclusions (I saw no reference to “combine tests”). Tiger does not deserve a mention under those criteria.

If success and performance in his or her sport were the sole criteria, he wins, hands down. Fair enough?

[quote]Airtruth wrote:
Athletecism is much more than one all out sprint, and one all out vertical jump.[/quote]

Err… wasn’t that sort of my point when I said

I’m not trying to pump myself by saying how I played against this D1 guy or that D1 guy. You tried to make a point about how the peasants who have never played “US Main 3” sports cannot understand how athletic these guys are. I said that yes, in fact I can and provided an example.

I was trying to make the point about how I can be significantly more athletic than somebody but they can be significantly better at a sport than me. What about that is so hard for you to comprehend?

[quote]mjc381 wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I could be overestimating Tiger. It’s certainly possible. However, I don’t think there’s a single athlete with the same mental skills that he has or the ability to constantly elevate his game when it matters. He could be dreadfully foot slow, but then again so is Kyle Korver and he’s doing alright in the NBA.

Regardless, it’s all speculation anyway. I think that if Tiger had taken to basketball, for example, when he was younger that he would’ve spent more time on, and developed, more of the physical abilities required for that. Of course, it’s totally possible that I’m talking way out of my ass here. Agree to disagree.

My main point is that “Greatest Athlete Alive” should not be determined by combine tests but my performance in their sport.

Kyle Korver was at the table next to me eating dinner last friday night, hahaha you are right he is very unathletic looking. I just though I’d share that, it made me laugh that you took a shot at him.
[/quote]

Oh don’t get me wrong, I got nothing but respect for Korver. Man’s making himself millions and I’m not getting jack shit so it doesn’t matter if I can jump higher than him.

[quote]TheBodyGuard wrote:
jtrinsey wrote:
I could be overestimating Tiger. It’s certainly possible. However, I don’t think there’s a single athlete with the same mental skills that he has or the ability to constantly elevate his game when it matters. He could be dreadfully foot slow, but then again so is Kyle Korver and he’s doing alright in the NBA.

Regardless, it’s all speculation anyway. I think that if Tiger had taken to basketball, for example, when he was younger that he would’ve spent more time on, and developed, more of the physical abilities required for that. Of course, it’s totally possible that I’m talking way out of my ass here. Agree to disagree.

My main point is that “Greatest Athlete Alive” should not be determined by combine tests but my performance in their sport.

My point is that we don’t know if you’re overestimating him or not. There simply is no evidence whatsoever of his athleticism.

Again, as with your example of Paul Pierce, but to a lesser extent, Kyle Korver is only RELATIVELY slow in relation to the more athletic players he is against. It doesn’t mean he is unathletic. He is not unathletic.

Speculation is correct sir! And it’s speculation to assume he would have developed certain abilities that may or may not have been absent. Think for a minute how difficult it is to get even knowledgeable lifters to address weaknesses.

Fact is that we tend to gravitate and do what we’re good at. If he picked up a basketball and sucked for his age, chances are he drops it - same with baseball, football, etc.

As for greatest athlete alive, that is absolutely subjective in and of itself and it depends, as you point out, how you wish to define it. What parameters will you measure greatness by?

I think at least in the context of their undertaking, they defined what skill set they used to judge their conclusions (I saw no reference to “combine tests”). Tiger does not deserve a mention under those criteria.
[/quote]

I get what you are saying. To me Michael Jordan is great, not just because oh how high he could jump or how fast he was, or even because of how great he was at his sport… but because you knew, I knew, he knew and even his opponents knew, that when it really mattered, he was just going to dominate them. Opponents counted themselves lucky if they somehow survived with a win.

Same thing with Tiger, look at how happy Mediate was to just “give him a good game.” Mariano Rivera in his prime is another one like this, he was so good in the playoffs it was almost a running joke. However, his scope of the game was so limited I’m not sure you can put him in the same mention.

I do see what you are saying about how that doesn’t make them more “athletic” though. That’s one of the reasons I hate these sort of lists, because they always degenerate into speculative arguments about definitions yet I cannot help myself from getting sucked in!

My definition of “greatest athlete ever” tends to be something like this:

A race of Aliens comes down tomorrow to Earth. Physically and mentally they are exactly the same as human beings, with the same general distribution of talent. Much to our dismay, we find that they hold a doomsday weapon and are taking the Earth hostage.

Fortunately, these aliens have a sense of gamesmanship and issue a challenge. We get to send three athletes from Earth to compete in a game of SPACEBALL, of which we have no idea what the game is like. We know it involves athletic ability but it is not nearly as simple as just running or jumping or lifting something heavy.

We can’t know what the game is like until we pick our athletes and they’ll have three days to prepare once they are chosen. The fate of the world rests in their hands. Who do you pick?

“SPACEBALL” sounds pretty baller,…this should be a movie

[quote]jtrinsey wrote:
My definition of “greatest athlete ever” tends to be something like this:

A race of Aliens comes down tomorrow to Earth. Physically and mentally they are exactly the same as human beings, with the same general distribution of talent. Much to our dismay, we find that they hold a doomsday weapon and are taking the Earth hostage.

Fortunately, these aliens have a sense of gamesmanship and issue a challenge. We get to send three athletes from Earth to compete in a game of SPACEBALL, of which we have no idea what the game is like. We know it involves athletic ability but it is not nearly as simple as just running or jumping or lifting something heavy.

We can’t know what the game is like until we pick our athletes and they’ll have three days to prepare once they are chosen. The fate of the world rests in their hands. Who do you pick?[/quote]

Honestly? At first blush, and as a former basketball player with an obvious bias? I’d pick three NFL players, most likely skill positions like DB, RB or WR. Those 3 positions could probably do pretty much anything to a level of acceptable competence and would be your best shot at competing at an unknown athletic endeavor.

They would have strength, speed, hand/eye, general athleticism, etc. I don’t think you could go wrong with those picks. Of those three positions, I would pick the most mentally tough guys. That’s about the best I think you could do.

EDIT

By the way, VERY provocative thought provoking question. And Tiger would never occur to me in the above scenario. Neither would MJ if it’s any consolation.

My 3-man TEAM EARTH (all in their primes):

Bo Jackson
Vernon Davis
Ricky Williams

yikes

I’m honestly not sure who I’d pick.

If you give me the All-Time team I’m taking:

Bo Jackson- Maybe the greatest blend of speed and power ever and made everything just look so easy. Reportedly hated to practice and said he never worked out a day in his life. Terrible attitude I think but I think that’s the kind of natural ability you need to pick something up in a couple of days. Plus, he’s got great hand-eye coordination and upper body power as shown by his baseball skills.

Michael Jordan- He’s a little lacking in the strength department, but he’s got great speed and athleticism and obviously one of the greatest competitors ever. Although I’d be a little scared that he would gamble away our chances on a double or nothing or something…

Those two jumped out at me very quickly. The last spot, I’m not sure. Maybe Mike Tyson just for the pure insanity.

[quote]Geebus wrote:
OctoberGirl wrote:

If either were still alive I would have to say Jim Thorpe or Jesse Owens AND either of those two should have been our Athlete of the Century, not Ali.

Jim Thorpe was even a competitive ballroom dancer.

They are great athletes, especially Thorpe. But you forgot to mention Jim Brown. Not only is he one of the greatest running backs ever, he is also considered to be one of the greatest lacrosse players ever. He also averaged 15 points per game on the Syracuse University’s basketball team and also lettered in track.[/quote]

I’m as big of a Jim Brown fan as anyone and I would agree that he belongs on the list of greatest athletes ever, but I have to clarify a few of your points about his Syracuse career. While its true that he is in the lacrosse hall of fame, it was more because of his size and strength than his skills.

At that time, you were allowed to pin the stick to your chest. He used to do this and run to the goal. No one could knock him off his feet. Once in front of the goal, he would score at point blank range. They actually changed the rule because of him.

But I’ve heard several lax-knowledgable people who saw him play lax, tell me that he couldn’t hold a candle to today’s top lax players. But, to be fair, lax was a sport he picked up very late in HS.

As for basketball, he played his freshman year. At that time, freshman were not allowed to play on varsity teams, so the stats are somewhat misleading as a gauge of his hoops skills.

As the legend says, during spring of his junior year, he played in the spring football game, then joined the lacrosse team for their game, and anchored the 4x100 relay team during halftime of the lax game. The truth to this story is dubious, but it makes for great legend.

His football career speaks for itself, but the funny thing is that he wasn’t even the best football player to play at SU. Ernie Davis was. Incidentally, his life story has been made into a movie, “The Express”, which will open this fall and looks to be good.

DB

Gheorghe Muresan, NBA legend and international superstar should be on the list, if not number one choice. The NBA has never really recovered after his retirement.