The Vanishing GOP Voter

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
21

[quote]malonetd wrote:

Why can’t employers do this? Why can’t they just issue 1099’s instead of W-2’s? (I think they’re 1099’s. I can’t remember.) I mean, in IRS terms, what defines an independent contractor or non-employee or whatever?[/quote]

The IRS has removed the independent contractor status from some people in the past, and forced an employer to “admit” that they were employees.

An independent contractor is effectively a self employed person instead of an employee. But if you are an independent contractor, but only work full time for a single employer, the IRS might turn you into an employee.

This form of income is often not reported to the government if it’s below a certain amount. (Around a grand last I knew.) There are plenty of people who work a full time job, or are on welfare, who sell plasma, do research studies, and/or work small independent contractor jobs that pay below that threshold.

It’s not too hard for people to make an extra $4-5 grand a year without paying taxes. Many people stay under the radar, keeping themselves out of any tax bracket, and maintaining their government benefits because of this.

22

[quote]malonetd wrote:
bald eagle wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
The easiest way to get employees to “feel” their benefits is to do away with payroll withholding taxes.

Make the employee pay all of his social security, medicare, and income taxes once a year.

Not only would he recognize a immediate boost in take home pay of at least 7.65%, but when it comes time to pay taxes, he will know exactly how much of his money the government is stealing.

I’ve often wondered why more employers don’t do this. It seems to me that they bear part of the responsibility for educating their employees about the business climate of the United States. Maybe they don’t bear the responsibility, but its in their interests to do so.

Am I understanding you right? Employers can’t do this - they are required by law to remit payroll taxes the following week.

Why can’t employers do this? Why can’t they just issue 1099’s instead of W-2’s? (I think they’re 1099’s. I can’t remember.) I mean, in IRS terms, what defines an independent contractor or non-employee or whatever?[/quote]

Yes, they are 1099’s. Independent contractors have to carry their own general liability insurance but they do not have to carry workers comp on themselves. Also, they would not be considered employees for group health insurance purposes.

This is simply not feasible. Not bad in theory I suppose.

23

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
The easiest way to get employees to “feel” their benefits is to do away with payroll withholding taxes.

Make the employee pay all of his social security, medicare, and income taxes once a year.

Not only would he recognize a immediate boost in take home pay of at least 7.65%, but when it comes time to pay taxes, he will know exactly how much of his money the government is stealing.

I’ve often wondered why more employers don’t do this. It seems to me that they bear part of the responsibility for educating their employees about the business climate of the United States. Maybe they don’t bear the responsibility, but its in their interests to do so. [/quote]

An emplyer can be fined for not withholding the proper amount of taxes, be they social security/medicare, or FIT. Most all non-farm employers are required to fill out quarterly reports (Form 941) and tell the Fed exactly how much they paid in wages, and how much they have made in federal tax deposits.

The government has a vested interest in the public not knowing, or caring, just how much they do pay in taxes.

24

[quote]The Mage wrote:
malonetd wrote:

Why can’t employers do this? Why can’t they just issue 1099’s instead of W-2’s? (I think they’re 1099’s. I can’t remember.) I mean, in IRS terms, what defines an independent contractor or non-employee or whatever?

The IRS has removed the independent contractor status from some people in the past, and forced an employer to “admit” that they were employees.

An independent contractor is effectively a self employed person instead of an employee. But if you are an independent contractor, but only work full time for a single employer, the IRS might turn you into an employee.

This form of income is often not reported to the government if it’s below a certain amount. (Around a grand last I knew.) There are plenty of people who work a full time job, or are on welfare, who sell plasma, do research studies, and/or work small independent contractor jobs that pay below that threshold.

It’s not too hard for people to make an extra $4-5 grand a year without paying taxes. Many people stay under the radar, keeping themselves out of any tax bracket, and maintaining their government benefits because of this. [/quote]

The threshold is $600 before a business is required to issue a 1099.

Some employees may not have a problem being treated as a IC, but not very many of them want to have to pay the 15.3% SocSec tax that is required of self-employed.

There is no deduction on the tax return. No IRA deduction, no itemized deduction. You pay SE tax on the profit of your business. You could owe no income tax at all after deductions, but if you make $10K per year, you are on the hook for $1530.

25

Isn’t it on their pay stubs?

26

[quote]SouthernGypsy wrote:

When my grandparents were young (a long, long time ago), they registered as Democrats. However, as time, and Party priorities changed, they are now more in-line with the Republicans, even though they are still registered Democrats.

I don’t have any facts or articles, but I wonder how much this comes into play.[/quote]

In the South in particular, there remains a lot of conservative Democrats who don’t vote Republican in national elections, but they remain proud in name and registration as “Democrats”.

Personally, I come from a long line of conservative Democrats - think Zell Miller - and they aren’t extinct, just marginalized by the Pelosi-Obama “coastal” approach to the party.

27

[quote]rainjack wrote:
Beowolf wrote:
The Mage wrote:
No. The reason that people are going over to the Democratic party is because they are being spoon fed a pile of crap so deep that they are having trouble getting out.

People are not being taught how to succeed. People see others succeeding, and make the assumption that they must be taking advantage of them. When the fact is that your success or failure is your responsibility.

There are people out there wondering why their dish washing job pays less then the doctor who spent 14 years, and 6 figures of debt learning their skills.

And there are people taking advantage of this way of thinking. If you don’t have money, it must be the fault of the people who do. And if you do have money, you should feel guilty, and responsible for those who don’t.

About 15 years ago, I read about a statistic that I doubt has changed much. As an economy improves, the number of economic news stories drops, and the percentage of negative news stories increase.

So no matter what is going on with the economy, you are going to hear about how terrible it is.

This article mentioned that employer spending on employees increased 25%, but much of that increase was consumed by the costs of health care. This author does not consider this to be income. It is a benefit, but does not count.

In other words more money is being spent on the employees, but that does not count. I would like to know why.

Class warfare does nothing to help anybody. Instead of blaming the wealthy, we should try to focus on teaching people to become wealthy.

I’d actually say the guy agrees with you, to an extent.

The pay raise DOES count, the writer is saying the problem is the employees don’t FEEL it, and therefore, end up blaming the GOP (when it isn’t really there fault). So he proposes that the only way to “save” the party (and avoid hyper pandering to the fundies at the same time) is to help the people “feel” the benefits of the Republican economy.

The easiest way to get employees to “feel” their benefits is to do away with payroll withholding taxes.

Make the employee pay all of his social security, medicare, and income taxes once a year.

Not only would he recognize a immediate boost in take home pay of at least 7.65%, but when it comes time to pay taxes, he will know exactly how much of his money the government is stealing.

[/quote]

I have a client who used to give his employees all their money at one window and then they’d move down the line and give the money back for all the various taxes at subsequent windows. Pretty damn effective.

I don’t think they allow you to do even this any more.

28

The real issue is that we haven’t seen real conservatism in a long time. The Republican party of today is like Democrats 20 years ago. The entire country has become more socialist in general.

The ideas of the welfare State and the entitlement mentality are now prevalent on both sides of the isle.

So we don’t really have Conservatives and Liberals. We now have Liberals (Republicans) and Socialists (Democrats).

So as the distinction between the two parties becomes smaller and smaller many cannot tell the difference.

29

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
The real issue is that we haven’t seen real conservatism in a long time. The Republican party of today is like Democrats 20 years ago. The entire country has become more socialist in general.

The ideas of the welfare State and the entitlement mentality are now prevalent on both sides of the isle.

So we don’t really have Conservatives and Liberals. We now have Liberals (Republicans) and Socialists (Democrats).

So as the distinction between the two parties becomes smaller and smaller many cannot tell the difference.

[/quote]

Yeah. Like I said, from Johnson through Carter, this country was pretty much socialist. Looks like we’re in for it again.

On another note, I don’t think Republicans are EVER going to get a significant vote from Mexicans, just as they don’t from blacks (who vote 90% for the Dems). Therefore, as the amount of Mexicans in our population grows, the amount of Republicans will shrink, barring some huge change.

30

[quote]SouthernGypsy wrote:
When my grandparents were young (a long, long time ago), they registered as Democrats. However, as time, and Party priorities changed, they are now more in-line with the Republicans, even though they are still registered Democrats.

I don’t have any facts or articles, but I wonder how much this comes into play.[/quote]

That is like how Ronald Reagan said that he didn’t leave the Democratic Party but that they left him.

31

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
The real issue is that we haven’t seen real conservatism in a long time. The Republican party of today is like Democrats 20 years ago. The entire country has become more socialist in general.

The ideas of the welfare State and the entitlement mentality are now prevalent on both sides of the isle.

So we don’t really have Conservatives and Liberals. We now have Liberals (Republicans) and Socialists (Democrats).

So as the distinction between the two parties becomes smaller and smaller many cannot tell the difference.

Yeah. Like I said, from Johnson through Carter, this country was pretty much socialist. Looks like we’re in for it again.

On another note, I don’t think Republicans are EVER going to get a significant vote from Mexicans, just as they don’t from blacks (who vote 90% for the Dems). Therefore, as the amount of Mexicans in our population grows, the amount of Republicans will shrink, barring some huge change. [/quote]

I disagree. Traditionally, Mexicans are hard-working people who do not have an entailment mentality. This goes against the Liberal agenda.

The reason most Mexicans currently vote Liberal is because they don’t know any better. They are constantly told that conservatives will deport them all and liberals will help them. You should hear some of the outrageous crap that is stated on Spanish language TV and radio around election time. Things like - if you vote for republicans they will come and take your children away. I kid you not.

But as there are more and more 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans here they will know better and be able to see through the liberal crap. Then once they realize they will, in fact, have more money and be able to provide for their family better under republican leadership, I think the pendulum will swing the other way.

32

[quote]The reason most Mexicans currently vote Liberal is because they don’t know any better. They are constantly told that conservatives will deport them all and liberals will help them. You should hear some of the outrageous crap that is stated on Spanish language TV and radio around election time. Things like - if you vote for republicans they will come and take your children away. I kid you not.

But as there are more and more 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans here they will know better and be able to see through the liberal crap. Then once they realize they will, in fact, have more money and be able to provide for their family better under republican leadership, I think the pendulum will swing the other way.

[/quote]

I hope you’re right.

33

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
The reason most Mexicans currently vote Liberal is because they don’t know any better. They are constantly told that conservatives will deport them all and liberals will help them. You should hear some of the outrageous crap that is stated on Spanish language TV and radio around election time. Things like - if you vote for republicans they will come and take your children away. I kid you not.

But as there are more and more 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans here they will know better and be able to see through the liberal crap. Then once they realize they will, in fact, have more money and be able to provide for their family better under republican leadership, I think the pendulum will swing the other way.

I hope you’re right. [/quote]

Me too!

34

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
The reason most Mexicans currently vote Liberal is because they don’t know any better. They are constantly told that conservatives will deport them all and liberals will help them. You should hear some of the outrageous crap that is stated on Spanish language TV and radio around election time. Things like - if you vote for republicans they will come and take your children away. I kid you not.

But as there are more and more 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans here they will know better and be able to see through the liberal crap. Then once they realize they will, in fact, have more money and be able to provide for their family better under republican leadership, I think the pendulum will swing the other way.

I hope you’re right.

Me too!
[/quote]

It seems to me that the there haven’t been many Republicans elected in California lately. I don’t know if the Mexicans are the reason for that or not. There are plenty of Prius-driving, Obama-voting white liberal crazies (and I sincerely mean that) here.

35

Well, as for the illegals, I don’t see what’s conservative about crossing our border illegally, using our tax payer funded social services, taking the jobs of unskilled tax paying natives, having around a 40% out of wedlock birthrate, and a 2nd generation more prone to a cycle of poverty and violence.

36

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, as for the illegals, I don’t see what’s conservative about crossing our border illegally, using our tax payer funded social services, taking the jobs of unskilled tax paying natives, having around a 40% out of wedlock birthrate, and a 2nd generation more prone to a cycle of poverty and violence.[/quote]

No one said anything about illegal’s, retard!

We are talking about legal immigrates.

37

[quote]PRCalDude wrote:
Lorisco wrote:
PRCalDude wrote:
The reason most Mexicans currently vote Liberal is because they don’t know any better. They are constantly told that conservatives will deport them all and liberals will help them. You should hear some of the outrageous crap that is stated on Spanish language TV and radio around election time. Things like - if you vote for republicans they will come and take your children away. I kid you not.

But as there are more and more 2nd and 3rd generation Mexicans here they will know better and be able to see through the liberal crap. Then once they realize they will, in fact, have more money and be able to provide for their family better under republican leadership, I think the pendulum will swing the other way.

I hope you’re right.

Me too!

It seems to me that the there haven’t been many Republicans elected in California lately. I don’t know if the Mexicans are the reason for that or not. There are plenty of Prius-driving, Obama-voting white liberal crazies (and I sincerely mean that) here.

[/quote]

If you look at voting patterns around the State you will see that the big cites (SF and LA) always vote democrat. So we pretty much have Hollyweard and Bay Area tree-huggers to thank for electing the democrat delegates.

38

[quote]Lorisco wrote:
Sloth wrote:
Well, as for the illegals, I don’t see what’s conservative about crossing our border illegally, using our tax payer funded social services, taking the jobs of unskilled tax paying natives, having around a 40% out of wedlock birthrate, and a 2nd generation more prone to a cycle of poverty and violence.

No one said anything about illegal’s, retard!

We are talking about legal immigrates.
[/quote]

Hence, “…as for the illegals…”

Too funny.

39

[quote]Sloth wrote:
Well, as for the illegals, I don’t see what’s conservative about crossing our border illegally, using our tax payer funded social services, taking the jobs of unskilled tax paying natives, having around a 40% out of wedlock birthrate, and a 2nd generation more prone to a cycle of poverty and violence.[/quote]

I initially thought that there would be a massive “cycle of violence” sort of thing because of the out-of-wedlock birth statistics. In Los Angeles, at least, we’re at our lowest murder rate in 40 years. It’s as low as it has ever been, despite having lots of Mexicans with the out-of-wedlock statistics you mentioned. So my opinion doesn’t hold up. I think it has something to do with a lot of the cops being Mexican, which fosters trust between the population and the police.

The problem is these yaktivist malcontents on Spanish television and radio. Rather than telling people what will actually improve their lives (education, having babies in wedlock only), they blame everything on the Republicans and try to keep all the Mexicans pissed-off. The Republicans are at least as responsible for open borders as the Democrats. Both parties want the Mexicans here to “do jobs Americans won’t do.”

The Mexican population here needs to catch up, education-wise. Reducing the out-of-wedlock and single parent families would probably help this, though those statistics are now high and rising for whites also. Education is tanking across the board.

40

Problem is, they lopsidedly oppose immigration enforcement measures. 79% oppose local law enforcement checking immigration status. 55% don’t even want status verification checked for driver licenses…50% say illegal immigrants have a POSITIVE impact.
http://pewhispanic.org/files/reports/84.pdf

They aren’t going to vote Republican unless the platform becomes pretty much open border and non-enforcement.