The Third World War

Off Topic Politics and World Issues
1

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.

2

It means a lot that Nepolitano is saying this sort of thing. The other day I read that U-haul tracking shows that there’s a very large surge of “one way” rentals to places like Vermont and Kentucky. One huge difference from the Depression is - how many people actually know how to take care of themselves, grow food, etc?

3

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

It means a lot that Nepolitano is saying this sort of thing. The other day I read that U-haul tracking shows that there’s a very large surge of “one way” rentals to places like Vermont and Kentucky. One huge difference from the Depression is - how many people actually know how to take care of themselves, grow food, etc? [/quote]

Thats why you are seeing a rise in neo survivalism.

4

you got to hope they are wrong

5

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.
[/quote]

They don’t need actual wars anymore. The war on drugs, war on poverty, health care crisis, economic crisis, etc. will all serve the same purpose. It seems any crisis will do these day.

6

It’s all about Old Nick and his buddies, don’t let a crisis go to waste. Just spend money money money, more power power power.

7

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.[/quote]

You’re jumping the gun there my friend. We are no where near and economic collapse, nor are we anywhere near a full blown war with any country that would give us a warm-up. I really wish that some of the reactionaries around here would settle down. The biggest problem is that most of you guys are not even out of your 20’s yet and you see this as being something catastrophic, it’s not, it’s called an economic cycle. Granted, Obama is making it worse, as did Jimmy Carter in the mid 70’s. Interest rates were 18% and inflation was through the roof. We even had gas lines back then because there was an alleged oil shortage. But guess what? Times like those inspire new leadership. Along came Ronald Reagan and 12 years of republican presidential rule.

This too shall pass, try to take a breath and relax until it does you do no one any good with this nonsense.

8

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

It means a lot that Nepolitano is saying this sort of thing. The other day I read that U-haul tracking shows that there’s a very large surge of “one way” rentals to places like Vermont and Kentucky. One huge difference from the Depression is - how many people actually know how to take care of themselves, grow food, etc? [/quote]

It could just mean that there are several thousand more pounds of crack, heroine and meth in the state or it could mean that people are moving back to their birth places/states of origin after the auto industry collapse/losing their jobs elsewhere.

9

there are 100s of reasons that intermingle for war to start. Especially with the rise of international organizations, nuclear weapons, today’s norms and morals, and economic interdependence makes war between nations unthinkable.

10

you should probably worry yourself about global terrorism and nuclear proliferation because I don’t see any modern state viewing a war against another as outweighing the potentcial consequences.

11

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.[/quote]

You’re jumping the gun there my friend. We are no where near and economic collapse, nor are we anywhere near a full blown war with any country that would give us a warm-up. I really wish that some of the reactionaries around here would settle down. The biggest problem is that most of you guys are not even out of your 20’s yet and you see this as being something catastrophic, it’s not, it’s called an economic cycle. Granted, Obama is making it worse, as did Jimmy Carter in the mid 70’s. Interest rates were 18% and inflation was through the roof. We even had gas lines back then because there was an alleged oil shortage. But guess what? Times like those inspire new leadership. Along came Ronald Reagan and 12 years of republican presidential rule.

This too shall pass, try to take a breath and relax until it does you do no one any good with this nonsense.
[/quote]

ZEB,

I agree, in part - however, it’s worth noting that there are a number of unprecedentedly converging factors that might place this out of the realm of “normal” cycle: the unsustainable levels of Federal debt and spending; the inability of certain States to meet their financial obligations (to pensioners and just to function); the mass distrust of our political institutions; the willful disregard for the people; the rise of a polarizing “Caesar” who seems to have little respect for or understanding of America, and is incompetent at many levels; a press that is basically a sock puppet for this Caesar; the existence of huge numbers of illegal aliens who may suddenly be granted citizenship; the massive mortgage problem that simply won’t go away; a stimulus-led bubble in the stock market; banks propped up by temporary measures… Et cetera!

I’m not sure that, historically speaking, we can find a comparable situation.

To me it looks like unchartered waters.

I really don’t want to believe this; if you know it to be otherwise, please tell me.

For once I’d love to be wrong.

12

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.[/quote]

You’re jumping the gun there my friend. We are no where near and economic collapse, nor are we anywhere near a full blown war with any country that would give us a warm-up. I really wish that some of the reactionaries around here would settle down. The biggest problem is that most of you guys are not even out of your 20’s yet and you see this as being something catastrophic, it’s not, it’s called an economic cycle. Granted, Obama is making it worse, as did Jimmy Carter in the mid 70’s. Interest rates were 18% and inflation was through the roof. We even had gas lines back then because there was an alleged oil shortage. But guess what? Times like those inspire new leadership. Along came Ronald Reagan and 12 years of republican presidential rule.

This too shall pass, try to take a breath and relax until it does you do no one any good with this nonsense.
[/quote]

Thank you for your perspective.

13

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.[/quote]

You’re jumping the gun there my friend. We are no where near and economic collapse, nor are we anywhere near a full blown war with any country that would give us a warm-up. I really wish that some of the reactionaries around here would settle down. The biggest problem is that most of you guys are not even out of your 20’s yet and you see this as being something catastrophic, it’s not, it’s called an economic cycle. Granted, Obama is making it worse, as did Jimmy Carter in the mid 70’s. Interest rates were 18% and inflation was through the roof. We even had gas lines back then because there was an alleged oil shortage. But guess what? Times like those inspire new leadership. Along came Ronald Reagan and 12 years of republican presidential rule.

This too shall pass, try to take a breath and relax until it does you do no one any good with this nonsense.
[/quote]

ZEB,

I agree, in part - however, it’s worth noting that there are a number of unprecedentedly converging factors that might place this out of the realm of “normal” cycle: the unsustainable levels of Federal debt and spending; the inability of certain States to meet their financial obligations (to pensioners and just to function); the mass distrust of our political institutions; the willful disregard for the people; the rise of a polarizing “Caesar” who seems to have little respect for or understanding of America, and is incompetent at many levels; a press that is basically a sock puppet for this Caesar; the existence of huge numbers of illegal aliens who may suddenly be granted citizenship; the massive mortgage problem that simply won’t go away; a stimulus-led bubble in the stock market; banks propped up by temporary measures… Et cetera!

I’m not sure that, historically speaking, we can find a comparable situation.

To me it looks like unchartered waters.

I really don’t want to believe this; if you know it to be otherwise, please tell me.

For once I’d love to be wrong.

[/quote]

Each era brings with it it’s own challenges, some worse than today some not as bad. No one had ever seen interest rates as high as they were during the Carter administration. At the same time we had an alleged oil shortage. People were waiting in long lines for gas. We had the highest inflation since it has been tracked in 79’ and 80’ reaching over 14%!. And on top of all of that America was the laughing stock of the entire world because a group of Iranians, in the aftermath of the Islamic revolution, took 52 Americans hostage and held them for 444 days. To ad insult to injury Jimmy Carter launched a failed rescue mission complete with crashing helicopters and the loss of 8 American service men. It seemed that America was on the down slide in a very big way. But, we came back.

Times are bad now no question, but they were even worse during the great depression. I don’t have to tell you about that it’s in all the history books. From 1929 to about 1932 5000 banks went out of business. 13 million people became unemployed and industrial production fell by nearly 45%. Home building also dropped off by 80%.

I think we occasionally need times like these to wake us up and move us back to a place where we stop taking things for granted. All we need is some time and the proper leadership and we will see good times again. The proper leadership begins when we replace every one of the people who voted for national health care. If we manage to take over the House and Senate, which is a real possibility, for the final two years of Obama’s Presidency his hands will be tied. He will be forced to either be a lame duck President, or move to the center as Bill Clinton did in 1994 as Newt Gingrich and the republican revolution took both houses.

As we begin to move back to more sound economic policies in 2011 and into election year 2012, we can look forward to a fresh start as we boot Obama out of the White House. There is a clear path to better times and I don’t think for a second that the people will not take that path. The people of this country have a great track record of changing course once that it has been clearly shown that we need such a change.

So, take it easy my friend, better times are on the way.

14

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.[/quote]

You’re jumping the gun there my friend. We are no where near and economic collapse, nor are we anywhere near a full blown war with any country that would give us a warm-up. I really wish that some of the reactionaries around here would settle down. The biggest problem is that most of you guys are not even out of your 20’s yet and you see this as being something catastrophic, it’s not, it’s called an economic cycle. Granted, Obama is making it worse, as did Jimmy Carter in the mid 70’s. Interest rates were 18% and inflation was through the roof. We even had gas lines back then because there was an alleged oil shortage. But guess what? Times like those inspire new leadership. Along came Ronald Reagan and 12 years of republican presidential rule.

This too shall pass, try to take a breath and relax until it does you do no one any good with this nonsense.
[/quote]

ZEB,

I agree, in part - however, it’s worth noting that there are a number of unprecedentedly converging factors that might place this out of the realm of “normal” cycle: the unsustainable levels of Federal debt and spending; the inability of certain States to meet their financial obligations (to pensioners and just to function); the mass distrust of our political institutions; the willful disregard for the people; the rise of a polarizing “Caesar” who seems to have little respect for or understanding of America, and is incompetent at many levels; a press that is basically a sock puppet for this Caesar; the existence of huge numbers of illegal aliens who may suddenly be granted citizenship; the massive mortgage problem that simply won’t go away; a stimulus-led bubble in the stock market; banks propped up by temporary measures… Et cetera!

I’m not sure that, historically speaking, we can find a comparable situation.

To me it looks like unchartered waters.

I really don’t want to believe this; if you know it to be otherwise, please tell me.

For once I’d love to be wrong.

[/quote]

Each era brings with it it’s own challenges, some worse than today some not as bad. No one had ever seen interest rates as high as they were during the Carter administration. At the same time we had an alleged oil shortage. People were waiting in long lines for gas. We had the highest inflation since it has been tracked in 79’ and 80’ reaching over 14%!. And on top of all of that America was the laughing stock of the entire world because a group of Iranians, in the aftermath of the Islamic revolution, took 52 Americans hostage and held them for 444 days. To ad insult to injury Jimmy Carter launched a failed rescue mission complete with crashing helicopters and the loss of 8 American service men. It seemed that America was on the down slide in a very big way. But, we came back.

Times are bad now no question, but they were even worse during the great depression. I don’t have to tell you about that it’s in all the history books. From 1929 to about 1932 5000 banks went out of business. 13 million people became unemployed and industrial production fell by nearly 45%. Home building also dropped off by 80%.

I think we occasionally need times like these to wake us up and move us back to a place where we stop taking things for granted. All we need is some time and the proper leadership and we will see good times again. The proper leadership begins when we replace every one of the people who voted for national health care. If we manage to take over the House and Senate, which is a real possibility, for the final two years of Obama’s Presidency his hands will be tied. He will be forced to either be a lame duck President, or move to the center as Bill Clinton did in 1994 as Newt Gingrich and the republican revolution took both houses.

As we begin to move back to more sound economic policies in 2011 and into election year 2012, we can look forward to a fresh start as we boot Obama out of the White House. There is a clear path to better times and I don’t think for a second that the people will not take that path. The people of this country have a great track record of changing course once that it has been clearly shown that we need such a change.

So, take it easy my friend, better times are on the way.

[/quote]

You know I totally agreed with the first half of your post and toatlly disagreed with the secound

15

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Then I’d say I’m making some headway with you.[/quote]

Then I’d say I’m making some progress with you.

16

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]pittbulll wrote:

Then I’d say I’m making some headway with you.[/quote]

Then I’d say I’m making some progress with you.
[/quote]

:slight_smile: or the other way around :slight_smile:

17

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]katzenjammer wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.[/quote]

You’re jumping the gun there my friend. We are no where near and economic collapse, nor are we anywhere near a full blown war with any country that would give us a warm-up. I really wish that some of the reactionaries around here would settle down. The biggest problem is that most of you guys are not even out of your 20’s yet and you see this as being something catastrophic, it’s not, it’s called an economic cycle. Granted, Obama is making it worse, as did Jimmy Carter in the mid 70’s. Interest rates were 18% and inflation was through the roof. We even had gas lines back then because there was an alleged oil shortage. But guess what? Times like those inspire new leadership. Along came Ronald Reagan and 12 years of republican presidential rule.

This too shall pass, try to take a breath and relax until it does you do no one any good with this nonsense.
[/quote]

ZEB,

I agree, in part - however, it’s worth noting that there are a number of unprecedentedly converging factors that might place this out of the realm of “normal” cycle: the unsustainable levels of Federal debt and spending; the inability of certain States to meet their financial obligations (to pensioners and just to function); the mass distrust of our political institutions; the willful disregard for the people; the rise of a polarizing “Caesar” who seems to have little respect for or understanding of America, and is incompetent at many levels; a press that is basically a sock puppet for this Caesar; the existence of huge numbers of illegal aliens who may suddenly be granted citizenship; the massive mortgage problem that simply won’t go away; a stimulus-led bubble in the stock market; banks propped up by temporary measures… Et cetera!

I’m not sure that, historically speaking, we can find a comparable situation.

To me it looks like unchartered waters.

I really don’t want to believe this; if you know it to be otherwise, please tell me.

For once I’d love to be wrong.

[/quote]

Each era brings with it it’s own challenges, some worse than today some not as bad. No one had ever seen interest rates as high as they were during the Carter administration. At the same time we had an alleged oil shortage. People were waiting in long lines for gas. We had the highest inflation since it has been tracked in 79’ and 80’ reaching over 14%!. And on top of all of that America was the laughing stock of the entire world because a group of Iranians, in the aftermath of the Islamic revolution, took 52 Americans hostage and held them for 444 days. To ad insult to injury Jimmy Carter launched a failed rescue mission complete with crashing helicopters and the loss of 8 American service men. It seemed that America was on the down slide in a very big way. But, we came back.

Times are bad now no question, but they were even worse during the great depression. I don’t have to tell you about that it’s in all the history books. From 1929 to about 1932 5000 banks went out of business. 13 million people became unemployed and industrial production fell by nearly 45%. Home building also dropped off by 80%.

I think we occasionally need times like these to wake us up and move us back to a place where we stop taking things for granted. All we need is some time and the proper leadership and we will see good times again. The proper leadership begins when we replace every one of the people who voted for national health care. If we manage to take over the House and Senate, which is a real possibility, for the final two years of Obama’s Presidency his hands will be tied. He will be forced to either be a lame duck President, or move to the center as Bill Clinton did in 1994 as Newt Gingrich and the republican revolution took both houses.

As we begin to move back to more sound economic policies in 2011 and into election year 2012, we can look forward to a fresh start as we boot Obama out of the White House. There is a clear path to better times and I don’t think for a second that the people will not take that path. The people of this country have a great track record of changing course once that it has been clearly shown that we need such a change.

So, take it easy my friend, better times are on the way.

[/quote]

Very well put by both of you. This too shall pass, if Americans wake up and make a change.

18

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Charlemagne wrote:

Gerald Celente has been saying that we are on the path towards war for a while now. A big war that is. The reason why? When the economy collapses and the people begin to rebel, governments will take the country to war to avoid losing power.

I don’t for a second believe that this economy is recovering. The stock market is incredibly over-inflated, no jobs are being created, and the government is spending like a drunken sailor. What does all this lead to? Economic catastrophy, skyrocketing crime rates, and political unrest.

This is not going to be pretty.[/quote]

You’re jumping the gun there my friend. We are no where near and economic collapse, nor are we anywhere near a full blown war with any country that would give us a warm-up. I really wish that some of the reactionaries around here would settle down. The biggest problem is that most of you guys are not even out of your 20’s yet and you see this as being something catastrophic, it’s not, it’s called an economic cycle. Granted, Obama is making it worse, as did Jimmy Carter in the mid 70’s. Interest rates were 18% and inflation was through the roof. We even had gas lines back then because there was an alleged oil shortage. But guess what? Times like those inspire new leadership. Along came Ronald Reagan and 12 years of republican presidential rule.

This too shall pass, try to take a breath and relax until it does you do no one any good with this nonsense.
[/quote]

The '70s were basically when the American bubble popped for the first time. Prior to the '70s, the US was the world’s number 1 oil producer. We produced more oil than any other nation ever has, even to do this day (about 13 million barrels per day). Saudi Arabia, the world’s next biggest producer, does about 11.5 mbd. However, starting in '62, the US peaked and declined ever since. The '70s is when we had to import a fuckton of oil to keep our economy going. However, OPEC cut the spigot off for 30 days. That’s why we had gas shortages. It wasn’t due to physical shortage, but a political one.

Anyways, WW3 has been fought and we lost. We just don’t know it yet. WW3 is being fought economically, not militarily. No major country can lose militarily. Russia, China and the US are basically invincible, even against each other. The second Chinese bomber jets start hitting New York or Washington DC, Shang-Hi and Beijing go up in mushroom smoke. Vice versa applies as well. That’s why WW3 has already been won. China has been gobbling up every precious natural resource for the last decade. They control our economic fate. Who do you think bankrolls our trillion dollar deficit? And BTW, we’ve run multiple trillion deficits under Bush as well. Bush hid those deficits under the guise of “emergency spending”, which is basically immune from congressional oversight. Look it up, he hid close to 500 billion dollars a year. It’s still red ink, no matter how you look at it. China is now the #1 creditor nation.

If you look at America’s future with an objective eye, you’ll see it’s impossible for us to be on top like we were post-WW2. We have far too many liabilities coming up. SS, medicare, medicaid. These three alone are going to bankrupt us.

19

I see WWIII potentially starting when Israel makes a pre-emptive strike on Syria or Iran. They are not fucking around, as they have been threatened and all it would take is 1 nuclear weapon strike on Israel to eliminate them.

If this shit happens, more Iran than Syria, Iran will move to shut down the Straight of Hormuz, which is where all the oil is shipped through. I don’t have high hopes for the future of middle Eastern oil and I think they are running out, but I still think their oil is important for the next 10-15 years.

As a side note, Canada launched a submarine under the polar ice caps in order to claim that land as their own. It is some international law where you can claim the land under ice attached to your land if you own it. There is supposed to be many oil reserves under the polar ice caps.

When oil starts to get up above $4 a barrel or so, and starts to hurt a struggling US economy, there is no choice but US military intervention, along with European and everyone else reliant on that oil, to get the shipping channels opened back up. WWIII.

There is also the distinct threat of a terrorist nuclear strike within the US. I don’t really know the truth on the matter, but I would not be surprised if it happened within the next 20 years. That will bring Hell down on anyone who supports terrorism in any way, without doing too much infrastructural damage to the US.

The US is still a major military power, but foreign nations are emboldened by our massive failures in Iraq which directly correlate to our hugely indebted economic state.

Anyway, the video addressed the Catch 22 with China. Their economy relies on us buying their crap. Google moving out marked the trend that a lot of US companies are unwilling to negotiate their intellectual property for access to the Chinese economy. The Chinese don’t have the option and our dependent on us.

If we go to war, it won’t be because dipshit politicians want to preserve power as the people simply won’t put up with it. I don’t have a lot of faith in the people anymore, but still I think the good ones will wake up and raise hell if this shady scenario occurs. I do see us going to war over resources, like oil, which the people would probably tolerate.

20

[quote]theuofh wrote:
I see WWIII potentially starting when Israel makes a pre-emptive strike on Syria or Iran. They are not fucking around, as they have been threatened and all it would take is 1 nuclear weapon strike on Israel to eliminate them.

If this shit happens, more Iran than Syria, Iran will move to shut down the Straight of Hormuz, which is where all the oil is shipped through. I don’t have high hopes for the future of middle Eastern oil and I think they are running out, but I still think their oil is important for the next 10-15 years.

As a side note, Canada launched a submarine under the polar ice caps in order to claim that land as their own. It is some international law where you can claim the land under ice attached to your land if you own it. There is supposed to be many oil reserves under the polar ice caps.

When oil starts to get up above $4 a barrel or so, and starts to hurt a struggling US economy, there is no choice but US military intervention, along with European and everyone else reliant on that oil, to get the shipping channels opened back up. WWIII.

There is also the distinct threat of a terrorist nuclear strike within the US. I don’t really know the truth on the matter, but I would not be surprised if it happened within the next 20 years. That will bring Hell down on anyone who supports terrorism in any way, without doing too much infrastructural damage to the US.

The US is still a major military power, but foreign nations are emboldened by our massive failures in Iraq which directly correlate to our hugely indebted economic state.

Anyway, the video addressed the Catch 22 with China. Their economy relies on us buying their crap. Google moving out marked the trend that a lot of US companies are unwilling to negotiate their intellectual property for access to the Chinese economy. The Chinese don’t have the option and our dependent on us.

If we go to war, it won’t be because dipshit politicians want to preserve power as the people simply won’t put up with it. I don’t have a lot of faith in the people anymore, but still I think the good ones will wake up and raise hell if this shady scenario occurs. I do see us going to war over resources, like oil, which the people would probably tolerate. [/quote]

Do you mean $4 for gasoline or $4 a barrel of oil? We have been above $4 a barrel for oil for a really long time now. If you meant $400 a barrel then I agree with you.