I listened to a local BJJ instructor testify in court that he teaches his students that it’s game over if an opponent gets them into a choke from behind. Is this what is commonly taught? I’m assuming his classes are taught purely for sport and not real life situations. I can’t imagine being taught to just give up if grabbed from behind. He did say though, he teaches his students to be aware and not let someone get behind but there is no way to guarantee that. The look on the prosecutors face, who has some fight training, was priceless.
When I asked Royce Gracie what I should do if someone has be locked up tightly in a rear naked choke he answered me with a question. He asked, “what do you do after someone hits you flush with a hard right cross”?
I guess the real answer is to never get caught in one in a street confrontation as there is no tapping out.
I’d have to hear the whole context to pass any judgement. Simply taking the back and working a choke is not game over, whether you’re talking sport or street. If you’re standing and they don’t have hooks in, a throw is there (among other things). If the hooks are in while you’re standing then you can make them your crash pad on the ground and work a pressure escape from there.
If you’re on the ground there are pressure escapes from back control as well. I’m sure there’s plenty of stuff I haven’t been taught as well. The key to all of these escapes is defending the choke while you work the escape so your brain keeps getting it’s blood supply.
Now if he’s talking about an already locked-in rear naked choke, then yes, that’s probably game over most of the time. You’ve only got a matter of seconds to escape before you go dark.
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I don’t know if I would interpret that as giving up as much as he might be emphasizing the seriousness of the situation and what can happen if you get choked out so you don’t treat it like a game, hence “game over.”
Motivational Monday:
“Regardless if it’s for the military, first responders, contact sports like NFL or MMA, your training should be preparing for your worst day not your best. This is why you need to be at such a high trained state. When the shit hits the fan and your running at 50% of your original ability, your going to want your start point to be well above your adversary’s or competition’s level. Too many are training for their best day, start training for the worst day and excel when all the odds are against you”
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If I am locked up in a choke from behind in a real life situation someone is getting stabbed. Or shot.
Would that be after you wake up?
God damn, i am glad you posted this recently. I was planning an exercise session this morning, but ended up getting fewer than 6 hours of sleep. I was thinking just to pack it in, but went out and got more than nothing done.
I have yet to have anybody lock in a choke and put me to sleep in less than 2 seconds. Usually it’s more like 5-7 or more even if I let them set up first. In full back mount you can last several minutes hand fighting before someone sinks a choke.
Yeah sure, if Roger Gracie took my back it would be different, but with athletic purples and browns I know first hand that it’s workable. I can think of a handful of times on the mats when I’ve been put in positions I probably couldn’t have resolved with a weapon. BJJ is not actually a superpower.
Of course I guess I could just give up and assume I’m dead. That sounds like a plan.
Edited.
His response was to a question along the lines of “what do you teach your students to do when choked from behind?” I assume from your responses he was referring to a tight rear naked choke although that wasn’t directly implied in the question.
You’ll never be able to shoot me if I’ve got you in my spider guard!
Ha, I know how you feel, most days I feel like crap. If I waited to train when I felt good, I would never get anything done.
Thought for the day: Another fallen brother in this age of killing first responders. What a senseless and brutal attack.
Nah, I’ll just wait for the crippling arthritis to catch up with you.
@idaho I am going for Officer training in 2 weeks time for the Australian Army. I can’t wait to start this new chapter of my life and I have been preparing for years.
If you have any advice on getting through the initial 6 weeks of boot camp, I would be more than happy to listen. Mental moreso than physical.
I am pretty confidence but knowledge from more experienced guys never hurts.
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Congratulations on your selection, the Australians don’t choose idiots to be officers, so my respect to you. The best advice I can give you is just keep your thoughts to yourself and do EVERYTHING they order you to do, no matter how stupid it is, and, never , ever complain about anything.
Complain about something (long hours, food, PT) and you will be marked as “weak” and the subject of “extra observation”. There will be a lot of duties, “make do” work that will seem really useless and stupid to you, just keep those thoughts to yourself. There will always be one or two individuals who will start complaining about the course and the instructors, let them take the heat and never associate with them.
Based on my experience, there will be weekly performance tests, written and practical. Study hard each night, its only 6 weeks, work with a lazer like focus to pass the course.
Before you leave, get your personal life in order. Have a wife or girlfriend? monthly bills? dog? whoever is in your life, talk to them and tell them, “this is my goal, I need your help”. I will be focusing on this goal and everything else is placed second. Hard, I know, but I have seen men leave because their personal life was a mess of dramatic bullshit.
The instructors job is to weed anyone who cannot operate or think under stress, remember, you will be commanding troops in hostile zones and they want someone they can trust, who will not “freeze up” under stress.
You have been after this for some time now, give your all and you will succeed. Best of luck, brother.
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Thank you for the advice and well wishes.
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I would assume he does teach escapes from that position but the reality is that if you are being choked something has gone very wrong. Mario Sperry, in one of his videos, shows how to escape but before he does he mentions that if he is caught he is probably going to lose the fight unless he were able to shoot the guy. The reason being, he is a trained fighter from the days when mma was vale tudo and a world champion in bjj, so if he is in that position it’s because he is hurt, tired or the opponent is better. I don’t think people should be taught to give up, and I don’t think they are, but they should be aware of the realities and not think they are invulnerable.
Why are you in that position to begin with and against whom and under what circumstances?
Referring to the question above, it were an actual self-defense situation and someone had you in that position, what went wrong? Did they sucker punch you and you are barely conscious before they even try and choke you?
I don’t think anyone would teach that but comparing two situations, getting choked in training vs getting choked during an assault, needs to factor in all of the different variables.
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As to why I’m in the position, I deliberately put my self in highly disadvantaged positions (e.g. full mount, locked RNC etc) for training purposes. The people I work with range in skill from unskilled to competitive judoka/BJJ/MMA guys. Sometimes it’s about letting them choke me for their training/certification. Sometimes it’s about me practicing escapes, accessing weapons, taking close quarters shots, deploying a training knife against varying degrees of resistance. Even allowing a skilled guy to set the choke first I find there are several seconds to work with before I start to go night night if I stay focused. If the choke is sunk, I find a weapon is my best bet.
As to how I would get there in a real situation, as with any disadvantaged position, if I’m there, I messed up somehow. I don’t really see what difference it makes if I got suckered and am semiconscious or if I just came out on the wrong end of a tussle. If someone puts me to sleep on the street, I expect to wake up dead.
If I have all my faculties and am not seriously injured my chances are better, but the goal is the same; access a weapon and use it to leverage my escape. If he tries to stop me from going for the weapon, the choke is loose and I can start working a more conventional escape. If I get the weapon I have some idea where the likely targets are on him. It’s hard to keep your hooks set when you’re bleeding out from your femoral artery.
It’s a shit situation, but all I know to do is stay in the fight, escalate my level of violence faster than he is prepared for and if it all goes wrong, die well.