Public information for those in the Austin, Texas area:
Assuming I didn’t/couldn’t shoot him, some kind of clinch/body lock takedown when cowboy was side-on with the arm trapped, possibly a standing back take/RNC once the pistol was clear or Osoto Guruma/hip toss variant once they were more square. Whatever allowed me to put him into the deck hardest (hit him with the planet and all). I’d prefer to end up in side control or best case knee on belly.
I noticed that as soon as the guy with the cowboy hat sees the gun he takes his glasses off. He was going to charge this guy first change he got. Kudo’s to him!
What are the downsides of letting him take the money from the register?
If you’re sure that’s all that will happen, and it isn’t the cashier’s money anyway, then it isn’t worth risking your life and no sane business owner would want his employee dying over some cash. But, most criminals are stupid so you never know if they’ll turn a robbery into a murder.
1 Like
Statistically, in most cases this is probably the safest solution.
You mean other than:
Letting an unpredictable person point a weapon at innocents? Killing/maiming any or all of them at his leasiure?
Giving the store a reputation as a pushover, so other miscreants can rob it as well?
Insurance rate hikes for the store?
Letting assholes win?
2 Likes
None, assuming he is a rational actor who is just threatening everyone with a gun in a calm and clear state of mind with no intention of harming anyone.
Nope, no real downside I can think of to complying with a person who will threaten to kill you for a few bucks.
Dudes threatenig to kill you for a few bucks.
Do you call his bluff, over a few dollars?
It’s a tough one.
1 Like
Well I’ve been in that situation 20 years ago on the south side of Chicago. My own dumb actions set the stage, and as I was trying to get out of a snow covered dead-end alley in my car I end up with a gun in my face.
I gave him what he wanted and drove away safely. End of story. He was obviously a highly disturbed person. I only trusted him because my only other option was betting against a guy in a mask with a visibly loaded revolver cocked in single action about an inch away from my face.
That, along with being on the receiving end of an unprovoked severe beating about 15 years ago, are why I prefer to avail myself of all options now, and not place my trust in people who are vicious and predatory.
Throw in some more recent lessons learned in the bouncer world regarding the decision-making process of people who are drunk, on drugs and mentally unstable and yep, I’m shooting first in a situation like that as soon as a sliver of opportunity presents itself.
1 Like
Firearms would definetly be useful here.
With a gun, you’ve got a Good chance(high probability) of stopping hoodie dude pretty fast.
My squirrelly, unpracticed kick to his back probably (low probability)isn’t going to stop him that quickly.
Damn straight. He processed the situation, made a decision and acted on that decision. A rare quality for most.
True, that was my reaction also. Slamming someone to the pavement / floor saves a lot of paperwork.
Damn lucky, brother.
Being able to recognize that predators don’t think or reaction like lawful citizens is the foundation of situational awareness.
There is none, if as the others said, the perp is acting rationally, but, no rational person robs a convenience store anyway. The risk is not worth the reward. A few hundred dollars at most, facing 20 years for armed robbery? No, most of these perps are junkies or street crazies. The problem of complaisance, is (going on my experience) leads to a sense of overwhelming power for the perp., who may entertain further thoughts of killing for pleasure or simply taking hostages for the purpose of media fame. These predators are losers and now they have power.
This isn’t a crew taking down an armored vehicle, bank, or drug lord. Just a weak, asshole predator. (IMHO)
1 Like
Thought for the day: These stats apply to LEO’s but I think it dovetails into our conversation on the perp. As a civilian, you may also face a robbery in progress. Pay attention to the distance (as seen in the store) and the hit percentage.
Also,I have seen enough stats in my life not to place much faith in any of them:))
Gunfighting Stats Learned From Convicted Cop Killers
Every five years or so the FBI compiles a list of all cases where a criminal kills a cop in the line of duty, and publishes a report detailing their findings
Officer Background
Average Victim Officer: 98% Males, 2% Female
Average Age: 35
Height/Weight: 5’11, 197 lbs
Race: 90% white
Education: 50% had high school diploma, 50% had a college degree
Offender Characteristics
Sex: 95% Males, 5% Female
Age: 26 years old
Race: 51% White, 49% non white
Size: 6’0, 175lbs
Education: only 14% had high school diploma, 4% had college degree
Their criminal histories were quite lengthy, with the average age of the first offense being 11 years of age, 9 for gang members. They most often committed larceny, and most were not punished for that first violation.
As you might expect, the majority of the offenders reported regular drug and alcohol use; however, approximately 40% reported no use. Likewise, a large chunk of the 43 offenders reported gang affiliation, and approximately 10 of those 43 were veterans of the US military.
The Event
Timeframe: approximately 40% of murders occurred during evening hours
Event Type: Disturbance Call, In Progress Crime, Arrest
Most Common Assault Location: Roadway
Other Present: In approximately 40% of incidents there were other officers or other persons present
Weapons
This section will cover the types of weapons used by the offenders, the caliber, and their previous experience with them.
Most common weapon: pistol
Most common caliber: 9mm
Most Common Areas of Concealment: Front waistband/crotch, small of back
18 of 50 officers had been in previous shootings
16 of 43 offenders had received weapons training
37 of 43 offenders regularly carried their weapon
Hit rate offender on officer: 68%
Hit rate officer on offender: 39%
Average range: 15ft
Most common offender shooting method: point shooting
Percent of legally acquired gun used by offender: 0%
These are some fairly startling statistics, but lets unpack some of them to see what we can learn. During the interviews the offenders stated that they selected their weapons based on what was available. T**hey didn’t endlessly ponder on what caliber or type of weapon they should get, they just bought what was available.**
They also universally bought their weapons off of the black market, with none reporting a legal purchase. They also reported that the easiest way to obtain a weapon was to burglarize a home. They estimated that they would find a gun in about 80% of houses if they chose them carefully.
Offender’s had a higher hit rate because they almost always shot first. Many of these criminals have learned that aggression and violence are key to survival, and they are not constrained by laws or other’s welfare. If they hit a bystander, they couldn’t care less.
The offenders stated that they didn’t attempt to aim, they simply pointed the weapon and shot. They stated that their goal was to initially disable their victim, and if they wanted to kill them they could do so much easier after wounding them.
These stats highlight the fact that real gunfights are occurring on the street at 5 yards; however, they are most commonly initiated by the criminal which leaves us, the good guys, in a bad tactical position.
The study highlighted that there were several cues that these criminals were armed, that officer’s failed to pick up on. They reported that the offender would often blade the weapon away from the officer, and would touch or readjust the weapon to assure themselves that it was still secure. No criminal in this study used a holster.
This highlights the fact that we aren’t going to win this encounter with pure gunfighting skills. This fight is going to be won prior to shots being fired. The researchers emphasized that identifying suspicious bulges, or clothing appearances in the commonly carried positions was key, as well as the physical indicators of checking or touching their weapon.
3 Likes
Thought for the day (2); Got send this overnight with the heading" How to catch a cop 101" . I had to laugh out loud over this, good way to start the day.
Man. They didn’t waste any time starting their careers. I can’t imagine arresting a 9 year old committing larceny.
Our society just needs a few more laws though. And maybe some signs put up reminding people that stealing weapons and murder are against the law. Assuming these guys can read with a 14% graduation rate.
We had a local asshole who killed a Somerset County Sherrif’s Deputy get apprehend last week. This guy looks just like most of the assholes you find in the north woods. Skinny, weak, lots of bad tats and seriously strung out on who knows what kind of drugs.
LOL…Nice. Thank you for posting. If this had happened a few states south of you, there would have been demonstrations over the “barbaric and brutal arrest” of this “vastly misunderstood man, who has been repeatedly failed by the societal system”. He looks like every meth dealer, I ever busted.