Coffee Break:
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Coffee Break:
Coffee Break:
Nice. Where is this?
Apparently it was up to 4 deputies who were cowering outside. Even when officers from another jurisdiction showed up they still refused to go inside. This doesn’t sound like a training issue but a hiring issue.
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Yeah, I’d read that too. I just don’t know what to say…
Utah.
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Agree completely. Unbelievable.
I don’t no what to say either. I normally never believe anything the media says about cops. If you hear something, its like interviewing an informant, about 10 to 15 percent is actually usable. If 10 % of what I am reading about this police response is true, then it is horrible and I am embarrassed to be carrying a badge.
I know over the past several years, it has been a war on cops, from daily killings to everyone in the public, to the criminal justice system, from the Governors to the local DA’s, everyone and everybody is trying to fry you. But, you have to draw the line somewhere, where your honor means more than being crucified, and, the killing of children is that line. If you cannot muster up enough courage to save a child from being butchered, then what the hell are you doing wearing a badge?
Fuck the system, fuck protocol, fuck the public, go in and shoot that bastard in the head. If you don’t, you are no better than trash and you have dishonored everyone who wears a badge and especially the 2 to 3 cops killed every week trying to do protect the innocent. As Batman said: Just Fuck.
This is not to stir up any shit because this thread is about tactics and I have already said my 2 cents over on the PWI. But, there is a lot of truth to this:
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Yep, not even a rumble. I honestly don’t understand the the attitude toward LE in the US today brother. I mean up here some people hate the cops, they fight us, spit on us and occasionally they kill us. Most people judge our actions from a position of ignorance and ridiculous constraints are placed on our ability to do our jobs.
That said when I go through the drive thru for coffee It’s pretty common that some random person behind me in line will have already paid for it, kids smile and wave at us with all four fingers, people I just gave tickets to tell me to ‘be safe’ and generally no one executes us in our cars just for showing up to work.
When Cst. John Davidson was shot and killed in Abbotsford last November there was a genuine sense of grief across the country. When Cst. Ross, Gevaudan and Larche were killed in Moncton the whole country stopped, it triggered sweeping policy reforms and court action against the RCMP. Nationally we’re still talking about it today.
I can’t understand for the life of me how I the US where it seems so much more difficult in many ways to do the job do do many regular people treat cops like crap. It Just doesn’t make sense.
Thinking merely in a survivalist mode - seeing the unwillingness of the deputies to refuse to enter the fray, only reinforces the idea that those of us in this thread (& our ilk) continue in our personal vigilance and preparation against evil against us.
In short, it should wake up the average man that he might have to physically fight for his life. Not spur him to attend rallies holding a placard reading “Gun Control Now!”
My gratitude to you LEOs and my sincerest prayers that you both get home safe daily and your fight against evil for the rest of us, does not drain away your humanity.
Saw this the other day, follows along with what you are saying.
“If the world was to descend into chaos tomorrow, would you be useful and would you be ready? Do you currently have the physical and mental skills it takes to survive in a war zone? If the answer is no, maybe it’s time to start thinking about making some changes. Being ready for anything is part of the this modern world. This doesn’t just pertain to the gym either. It can be on the range, out hunting, during fight training or in our every day lives. Always ready.”
Motivational Monday:
“Mental warfare, it’s a 365 day campaign. Once you hit day 365 it starts again. It’s a war that rages in your head. It comes in many forms: It’s the war of self belief, it’s the war of motivation, it’s the war of procrastination, it’s the war of you vs you. Never ever stop fighting this war. The day you stop fighting this war, the day you stop detesting mediocrity, is the day you become the walking dead”
Interesting discussion over at BreachBangClear.com, http://www.breachbangclear.com/whats-going-on-in-broward-county/
Especially in the comments section. This post by Dannus Maximus is an interesting take:
"Lots to unpack with this article, but I will add another possibility – – in the modern era of law enforcement, doing nothing is often the safest course of action for an officer. Not just safer physically, but safer as far as keeping your job, not getting sued, not having activists swarm your house or publish the addresses of all your relatives on the internet, etc.
Consider that THIS is what a student said about the SWAT officers who DID rush into the school to try and address the shooter:
““I started to pace back and forth because I did not know what was going on,” Prado said, noting that those with eyes on him “panicked because I was matching the same description as Nikolas Cruz.”
“I had the same clothes, same color, same facial structure, somewhat,” Prado said. “When I went out those doors, I had six SWAT members pointing their guns at me.”
He continued: “I was tossed to the ground. I was unjustly cuffed and held at gunpoint for the degrading and depreciating action of the disturbed individual of Nikolas Cruz.”
Full article here: I was mistaken for the Florida high school gunman
Is there any doubt that this student has already been contacted by numerous attorneys who want his family to sue the department and individual officers for ‘unjustly’ cuffing him and holding him at gunpoint? It’s the same reason that street cops all over the country are choosing to drive by that group of shady characters milling around a street corner at 3AM instead of getting out of their cruisers and performing proactive police work. It isn’t worth being the next YouTube sensation, and you are rarely going to get fired for what you did NOT do. There is basically no downside to doing nothing, and no upside to doing something. That’s called a ‘mindset’, and it’s becoming endemic in modern law enforcement.
Adding to that is the very real lack of hands-on training that most officers receive for active shooter incidents. In our largest area department, the overwhelming amount of training dollars and resources for these incidents get pushed to the SWAT units, and that goes double for tactical firearms training. I doubt if the average flatfoot feels ANY level of confidence in their ability to effectively employ a patrol rifle in a fire and movement or room clearing environment.
So, you get a situation where cops are no longer rewarded for aggressive police work (and are in many ways actively discouraged from performing it), so they are predisposed to not being aggressive, and their level of comfort with the type of action they need to take is low to nonexistent due to lack of training. That’s totally a recipe for officers waiting outside the building for the ‘experts’ to arrive while kids are being murdered 50 yards away.
Put another way, the deputies who did nothing will at WORST be lat-moved to a desk job, or possibly resign prior to being fired ( with full pension if they have earned it). What would have been the WORST that could happen if some poor, terrified, undertrained grunt cop had gone in and accidentally killed or wounded one (or more) innocent students while trying to confront the shooter?"
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Do high school kids really talk like this? If not (and I don’t think they do), who is coaching him, and what is the motivation?
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Lawyers would be my guess.
There’s another consequence that those deputies have to deal with: living with the memory of their cowardice.
And it has been that way for a for a long time. I don’t work the street anymore, but, once a year I assist in teaching a tactics class for the NTOA. I meet officers from around the US and Canada, and most are SWAT cops. Same story all the time. “God, I hope nothing happens, if I kill someone the brass will hang me out to dry”, “my family will have to go into hiding”, “I will be sued and lose everything , whether I am right or wrong” (true). I have been sued 3 times, all for SWAT situations. My ROE is set by by the feds and they are stupid enough, what the local departments have to operate under is astounding.
LOL. what did you expect in an active shooter situation with no perp in custody? SWAT cops have Yoda like powers to look inside your soul and KNOW you were not the killer? You matched the description dickhead and guess what? descriptions from witnesses are usually shit anyway. and yeah, I agree some bottom feeding lawyer is looking for a paycheck.
He is something from personal experience: Some dipshit will sue an officer and the department for " violation of rights or excessive force" . whether its true or not, the city/ county/state will usually have their insurance company pay the minimum deduction / payout just to make the lawsuit go away. So dipshit lies, officer gets drugged through the mud and dipshit walks away with 75 to 100 grand. Happened to me.
That is the pure truth. Ask any Baltimore officer if they are doing any pro active street narctoics work . I had an FTO tell me one time," you cannot get into trouble if you don’t do anything". I can tell you from experience, doing aggressive police work is staying in trouble all the time.
I agree to your statement, however, most of the large departments are ( or it seems from NTOA) are at least trying to find ways to put the patrolman through some “basic” active shooter drills. Most departments are using the " two man team / pyramid approach" on the theory that two officers will usually arrive within 30 seconds. Great for large city departments, stupid for suburban and rural areas. I was only able to assist in one class last year, but, from what I observed from the cross section of class, the average patrolman was really lagging behind in a lot of tactical areas.
Based on my experience, SWAT is a reactive action, the shit had already hit the fan before I was called. The “average” patrolman will encounter and most likely kill the shooter before SWAT arrives. Why not put every patrolman through a basic 80 hour SWAT course? I will tell you why: money, time, unions, and cops bitching about " I didn’t sign up for this SWAT shit, I did enough of that in the Army" . I got that statement last year in a class.
My answer:" So, let the kids die because you are too sorry to train?" The world is not like it was when you went to Disney Land as a 7 year old. Deal with it or do something else.
True. I talked to cop last year from a mid-size department (150-300) officers, and he showed me an internal memo from command, stating that no matter what the call: active school shooter, terrorists attack, someone pouring gasoline over children and setting them on fire, etc. They were not to exceed the posted speed limit. Can’t have any lawsuits over vehicle accidents or have the “public” think we are speeding. Jesus Christ, we are a nation that fears lawsuits worse that butchered children.
He would have been charged with aggravated assault in my state.
Really good post that brings out the shit in the LEO life.
As I said in an earlier post, Killing kids crosses the line. I may sound like a gasping dinosaur, but, personal honor is all I have, and I am more than willing to die for it.