[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This is kind of sad. It looks like the guy had myriad ocd’s . Once he fixated on suicide and adequately rationalized it he killed himself.
This isn’t some Pyrrhic victory. It’s mental illness resulting in death.
[/quote]
Yes. I seem to follow you around lately agreeing with everything you say. Fatherhood had made you wise. Either that, or it’s made you exhausted and dim, and that’s somehow relatable to me. 
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This is kind of sad. It looks like the guy had myriad ocd’s . Once he fixated on suicide and adequately rationalized it he killed himself.
This isn’t some Pyrrhic victory. It’s mental illness resulting in death.
[/quote]
Yep, that’s pretty much what I think. OCD, gloomy outlook. It’s always dangerous with these characters that have above average intelligence and struggle a bit with the social game. If he was a bit duller, he probably would not be able to rationalize suicide. At least he only killed himself… he seems to me to have had the sort of mind who could rationalize a shooting spree just as easily as suicide, under the right circumstances.
I think if you reach a point in your life where you no longer want to live, suicide is the logical choice. I don’t find any “honor” in giving up though.
[quote]Steel Nation wrote:
I think if you reach a point in your life where you no longer want to live, suicide is the logical choice. I don’t find any “honor” in giving up though.[/quote]
That’s a fair assessment
[quote]EmilyQ wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This is kind of sad. It looks like the guy had myriad ocd’s . Once he fixated on suicide and adequately rationalized it he killed himself.
This isn’t some Pyrrhic victory. It’s mental illness resulting in death.
[/quote]
Yes. I seem to follow you around lately agreeing with everything you say. Fatherhood had made you wise. Either that, or it’s made you exhausted and dim, and that’s somehow relatable to me. :/[/quote]
It has forced me to think differently. Exhausted and dim for sure, but I think that allowed for the breaking down of some long standing barriers (that really needed broken).
As I read through all of that I kept thinking “60? When I’m 60, my son will be 20. No way I’m going to miss that!”.
[quote]Quick Ben wrote:
[quote]SkyzykS wrote:
This is kind of sad. It looks like the guy had myriad ocd’s . Once he fixated on suicide and adequately rationalized it he killed himself.
This isn’t some Pyrrhic victory. It’s mental illness resulting in death.
[/quote]
Yep, that’s pretty much what I think. OCD, gloomy outlook. It’s always dangerous with these characters that have above average intelligence and struggle a bit with the social game. If he was a bit duller, he probably would not be able to rationalize suicide. At least he only killed himself… he seems to me to have had the sort of mind who could rationalize a shooting spree just as easily as suicide, under the right circumstances.
[/quote]
I don’t know about shooting spree, be he definitely suffered from terminal uniqueness. There was a lot there that I could relate to though. The OCD stuff (still there) lack of academic accomplishment, and detachment from humanity, thinking differently. But when faced with the same end through different means, I changed.
I’ve seen quite a few people take the same route as him though. When faced with inevitable change beyond their control they opt for self destruction rather than try something different.
Not sure if posters here have known people close to them who have committed suicide but in my own personal experience it often involves real mental illness that has little to do with a healthy persons sense of “honor”
I am in agreement that suicide is a pitiable choice for anyone though most of us likely don’t comprehend a lifetime of hearing voices, having our minds trick us or being generally unable to differentiate between reality and an illness. If a person is unable to make rational, logical choices, it seems harsh to scorn them for then making perhaps the most rational choice (from their perspective), which is to end a likely miserable life.
Not trying to impugn anyone in this thread, nor speaking to Martin Manley specifically but let’s be real about why a large percentage of people off themselves. IMO it isn’t because they are “cowards”
[quote]Mcincinatti wrote:
Not sure if posters here have known people close to them who have committed suicide but in my own personal experience it often involves real mental illness that has little to do with a healthy persons sense of “honor”
I am in agreement that suicide is a pitiable choice for anyone though most of us likely don’t comprehend a lifetime of hearing voices, having our minds trick us or being generally unable to differentiate between reality and an illness. If a person is unable to make rational, logical choices, it seems harsh to scorn them for then making perhaps the most rational choice (from their perspective), which is to end a likely miserable life.
Not trying to impugn anyone in this thread, nor speaking to Martin Manley specifically but let’s be real about why a large percentage of people off themselves. IMO it isn’t because they are “cowards”[/quote]
This is exactly the way I feel about it. I would say people that off themselves that are not mentally ill ( that’s a very,very small percentage ) are not cowards either but they are selfish.
[quote]crowdhater wrote:
[quote]Mcincinatti wrote:
Not sure if posters here have known people close to them who have committed suicide but in my own personal experience it often involves real mental illness that has little to do with a healthy persons sense of “honor”
I am in agreement that suicide is a pitiable choice for anyone though most of us likely don’t comprehend a lifetime of hearing voices, having our minds trick us or being generally unable to differentiate between reality and an illness. If a person is unable to make rational, logical choices, it seems harsh to scorn them for then making perhaps the most rational choice (from their perspective), which is to end a likely miserable life.
Not trying to impugn anyone in this thread, nor speaking to Martin Manley specifically but let’s be real about why a large percentage of people off themselves. IMO it isn’t because they are “cowards”[/quote]
This is exactly the way I feel about it. I would say people that off themselves that are not mentally ill ( that’s a very,very small percentage ) are not cowards either but they are selfish.[/quote]
I know a few people who are selfishly insisting on remaining alive. Oxygen is a valuable commodity and should not be wasted.
Besides… the more suicides, the fewer people. The fewer people, the less crowded it becomes.
And you are the “crowd hater”, are you not? 
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]crowdhater wrote:
[quote]Mcincinatti wrote:
Not sure if posters here have known people close to them who have committed suicide but in my own personal experience it often involves real mental illness that has little to do with a healthy persons sense of “honor”
I am in agreement that suicide is a pitiable choice for anyone though most of us likely don’t comprehend a lifetime of hearing voices, having our minds trick us or being generally unable to differentiate between reality and an illness. If a person is unable to make rational, logical choices, it seems harsh to scorn them for then making perhaps the most rational choice (from their perspective), which is to end a likely miserable life.
Not trying to impugn anyone in this thread, nor speaking to Martin Manley specifically but let’s be real about why a large percentage of people off themselves. IMO it isn’t because they are “cowards”[/quote]
This is exactly the way I feel about it. I would say people that off themselves that are not mentally ill ( that’s a very,very small percentage ) are not cowards either but they are selfish.[/quote]
I know a few people who are selfishly insisting on remaining alive. Oxygen is a valuable commodity and should not be wasted.
Besides… the more suicides, the fewer people. The fewer people, the less crowded it becomes.
And you are the “crowd hater”, are you not? ;)[/quote]
Good point. Alot of those people didn’t get their paperwork wills etc squared away before they got really sick and it’s their families most of the time being selfish to keep them alive.
Yes, less crowded would be nice…LOL
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Martin Manley, though perhaps not having lived for as many years, has done essentially the same thing. My hat is off to him. Every man dies. Not every man dies well. [/quote]
You fuckin serious mate?
He died a coward’s death. No fucking way he will be welcomed to join his ancestors in the halls of Valhalla with such a pitiful doom. Sure he will be remembered by more than just an obituary, but to me at least he will be remembered as a pathetic and miserable excuse for a man. Suicide disgusts me.[/quote]
Because growing old enough to lose your sight, sense of hearing, ability to walk and function in the world is so much preferable. There comes a point in life where you end up doing more harm by just drawing breath than to just let yourself go.
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]crowdhater wrote:
[quote]Mcincinatti wrote:
Not sure if posters here have known people close to them who have committed suicide but in my own personal experience it often involves real mental illness that has little to do with a healthy persons sense of “honor”
I am in agreement that suicide is a pitiable choice for anyone though most of us likely don’t comprehend a lifetime of hearing voices, having our minds trick us or being generally unable to differentiate between reality and an illness. If a person is unable to make rational, logical choices, it seems harsh to scorn them for then making perhaps the most rational choice (from their perspective), which is to end a likely miserable life.
Not trying to impugn anyone in this thread, nor speaking to Martin Manley specifically but let’s be real about why a large percentage of people off themselves. IMO it isn’t because they are “cowards”[/quote]
This is exactly the way I feel about it. I would say people that off themselves that are not mentally ill ( that’s a very,very small percentage ) are not cowards either but they are selfish.[/quote]
I know a few people who are selfishly insisting on remaining alive. Oxygen is a valuable commodity and should not be wasted.
Besides… the more suicides, the fewer people. The fewer people, the less crowded it becomes.
And you are the “crowd hater”, are you not? ;)[/quote]
Have you had someone close to you commit suicide? I feel like a person who has would not be saying that.
Many of old age’s attendant ailments are extremely ignoble and undignified. There is absolutely no basis to call someone a coward who chooses to say, “fuck all that shit,” and opt out. Assuming that s/he does not have any young dependents that will be left abandoned.
In fact, under many conceivable circumstances, what it takes for a person of sound mind to put a pistol to their temple and pull the trigger is a fucking duffel bag full of cojones.
There is nothing inherently courageous or cowardly about suicide; as with almost all things, it depends. Speaking of Depends, I’d rather eat a bullet than have someone change my diapers. And I say anybody who thinks differently is in greater danger of flirting with cowardice than am I.
This has nothing to do with the particular case in question, because I don’t know anything about it.
[quote]Totenkopf wrote:
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
Martin Manley, though perhaps not having lived for as many years, has done essentially the same thing. My hat is off to him. Every man dies. Not every man dies well. [/quote]
You fuckin serious mate?
He died a coward’s death. No fucking way he will be welcomed to join his ancestors in the halls of Valhalla with such a pitiful doom. Sure he will be remembered by more than just an obituary, but to me at least he will be remembered as a pathetic and miserable excuse for a man. Suicide disgusts me.[/quote]
Because growing old enough to lose your sight, sense of hearing, ability to walk and function in the world is so much preferable. There comes a point in life where you end up doing more harm by just drawing breath than to just let yourself go. [/quote]
And that happens at 60? Lol
If I was going to blow my brains out, I would at least go on some kind of a bender first for as long as I could keep it up. Shoot massive amounts of test, gh, insulin and what have you, plus any recreational drugs I wanted to try. Eat and drink huge amounts of junk, and try to get some massive lifts done before checking out. I mean if you’re not concerned with tomorrow, why hold back.
The last thing I would want to do is neatly get all my affairs in order and clock out of a perfectly serviceable 60 year old body, not having had much fun at all. That shit makes no sense to me. Why not relax and enjoy your declining years. If your memory goes, that just means you don’t have to take responsibility for remembering stuff any more. Also, no one asks you to help them move or carry anything heavy, and you can get out of anything you did wrong by simply acting a little distracted and fuzzy. lol
I don’t think suicide is cowardly, clinging on to life at all costs is much more craven imo. But as long as the game is worth the candle I plan to stick around. It is an interesting philosophical question though, whether or not to go on living. Perhaps one of the few philosophical questions that matter.
[quote]strungoutboy21 wrote:
[quote]Varqanir wrote:
[quote]crowdhater wrote:
[quote]Mcincinatti wrote:
Not sure if posters here have known people close to them who have committed suicide but in my own personal experience it often involves real mental illness that has little to do with a healthy persons sense of “honor”
I am in agreement that suicide is a pitiable choice for anyone though most of us likely don’t comprehend a lifetime of hearing voices, having our minds trick us or being generally unable to differentiate between reality and an illness. If a person is unable to make rational, logical choices, it seems harsh to scorn them for then making perhaps the most rational choice (from their perspective), which is to end a likely miserable life.
Not trying to impugn anyone in this thread, nor speaking to Martin Manley specifically but let’s be real about why a large percentage of people off themselves. IMO it isn’t because they are “cowards”[/quote]
This is exactly the way I feel about it. I would say people that off themselves that are not mentally ill ( that’s a very,very small percentage ) are not cowards either but they are selfish.[/quote]
I know a few people who are selfishly insisting on remaining alive. Oxygen is a valuable commodity and should not be wasted.
Besides… the more suicides, the fewer people. The fewer people, the less crowded it becomes.
And you are the “crowd hater”, are you not? ;)[/quote]
Have you had someone close to you commit suicide? I feel like a person who has would not be saying that.[/quote]
I had someone extremely close to me attempt suicide, have her life saved by having her stomach pumped at the hospital, only to have her car hit head-on by a truck five years later, hang on in a coma for three days, then die. I had moved to another state by then, though, and I didn’t get the word that she was dead until months later, if that answers your question.
And I still think some people are wastes of oxygen. She wasn’t, but some people are.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Many of old age’s attendant ailments are extremely ignoble and undignified. There is absolutely no basis to call someone a coward who chooses to say, “fuck all that shit,” and opt out. Assuming that s/he does not have any young dependents that will be left abandoned.
In fact, under many conceivable circumstances, what it takes for a person of sound mind to put a pistol to their temple and pull the trigger is a fucking duffel bag full of cojones.
There is nothing inherently courageous or cowardly about suicide; as with almost all things, it depends. Speaking of Depends, I’d rather eat a bullet than have someone change my diapers. And I say anybody who thinks differently is in greater danger of flirting with cowardice than am I.
This has nothing to do with the particular case in question, because I don’t know anything about it.[/quote]
Yup.
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Many of old age’s attendant ailments are extremely ignoble and undignified. There is absolutely no basis to call someone a coward who chooses to say, “fuck all that shit,” and opt out. Assuming that s/he does not have any young dependents that will be left abandoned.
In fact, under many conceivable circumstances, what it takes for a person of sound mind to put a pistol to their temple and pull the trigger is a fucking duffel bag full of cojones.
There is nothing inherently courageous or cowardly about suicide; as with almost all things, it depends. Speaking of Depends, I’d rather eat a bullet than have someone change my diapers. And I say anybody who thinks differently is in greater danger of flirting with cowardice than am I.
This has nothing to do with the particular case in question, because I don’t know anything about it.[/quote]
None of that shit is an inevitability. My family members have historically lived into their 80’s and 90’s and not one of them went to a nursing home. My grandfather worked his field until he died at 85. He didn’t need to kill himself twenty years prior to that like some defeatist bitch.
Having come across the behaviour and treatment towards the old in the UK, I can quite frankly say that unless they invent gene therapy to keep muscle density, youthful-looks and physical/mental abilities I do not want to live for too long in old age.
Your body and mind is the only thing keeping the wolves at bay and you always hear of the old being fucked over every week/month. Eat or heat? Knowing you live in a building that is not the best at retaining heat and living in a country that gets cold/chilly 7-8 months of the year is asking for trouble.
My grand mother was treated like shit in hospital and it isn’t an isolated case. As soon as you are on your “deathbed” you are fucked. We dont cherish old and experienced people anymore here in the west and expect them to go away.
And lets not even talk about Dementia/Alzheimer diseases. If those aren’t some of the cruelest ways to get fucked over with after a long life I dont know what is. You resemble a husk and your family does not know how to cope and then they get treated like crap by the system. Sorry! Not me thanks!
[quote]csulli wrote:
[quote]smh_23 wrote:
Many of old age’s attendant ailments are extremely ignoble and undignified. There is absolutely no basis to call someone a coward who chooses to say, “fuck all that shit,” and opt out. Assuming that s/he does not have any young dependents that will be left abandoned.
In fact, under many conceivable circumstances, what it takes for a person of sound mind to put a pistol to their temple and pull the trigger is a fucking duffel bag full of cojones.
There is nothing inherently courageous or cowardly about suicide; as with almost all things, it depends. Speaking of Depends, I’d rather eat a bullet than have someone change my diapers. And I say anybody who thinks differently is in greater danger of flirting with cowardice than am I.
This has nothing to do with the particular case in question, because I don’t know anything about it.[/quote]
None of that shit is an inevitability. My family members have historically lived into their 80’s and 90’s and not one of them went to a nursing home. My grandfather worked his field until he died at 85. He didn’t need to kill himself twenty years prior to that like some defeatist bitch.[/quote]
Of course, if old age comes gracefully, then suicide is an illogical choice.
But for many, it doesn’t. Incontinence. Debilitating weakness. Forgetting who your children are. If clinging onto such a life is not cowardice, then it is something close to it. And suicide, in such a case, is something very far from it.