[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t know but I would say the long game of the RNC would be to try and convince everyone they are some how Moderate Conservative [/quote]
All that does is allow the center to get pulled further left.
The long game needs to include the opposite of what you are implying. We need (both parties) to bring the center back to the actual center. Right now “center” is a solid democrat a couple decades ago.
“Moderate conservatives” have brought us such wonders as the Patriot Act. They need to go away with the progressives. [/quote]
You aren’t being facetious in saying that you think the center in America is left? We are a right of center nation as a whole in comparison to the world. Or are you simply saying that America’s center is moving to the left(I don’t agree with that necessarily either, but it at least would be somewhat arguable)?
The Republican long game likely needs to move it away from being stridently religious. American Demographics are moving away from that. Positions that are only tangentially about things other than religion like gay marriage will weaken the party if they make them litmus tests. There is a huge generational shift in belief systems and those are difficult if not impossible to change. The party needs to adopt to some of them or it will diminish.
[/quote]
That would be the dumbest thing the republican party could do. The religious constituency is huge and the democrats have rejected the religious by and large already. Republicans need to welcome them with open arms.
All your saying here is make them like democrats. [/quote]
The religious constituency is shrinking. If that continues then to stay relevant they must evolve. And I don’t mean totally take away moral litmus tests just the ones that are seemingly arbitrary. For example I think its perfectly valid to take a non religious pro life position that has a lot of merit. As well as one coming from someone’s religious beliefs. Its not a trivial thing that should be taken lightly the taking of a life.
However a position against gay marriage no matter how its rationalized by the person holding it is going to smack of personal distaste and prejudice to an ever growing demographic of voters. Positions like the second likely need to be toned down.
I would love to see a party take a position that we would absolutely refuse to do business with countries who use child, slave or prison(yah we need to clean ourselves up here first) labor but I’ll never see that happen so I choose as best I can ignoring that position. If the gay marriage piece among others was dropped from the Republican party I doubt there would be a mass exodus and there likely would be some gains if they were seen to be less overtly religious.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t know but I would say the long game of the RNC would be to try and convince everyone they are some how Moderate Conservative [/quote]
All that does is allow the center to get pulled further left.
The long game needs to include the opposite of what you are implying. We need (both parties) to bring the center back to the actual center. Right now “center” is a solid democrat a couple decades ago.
“Moderate conservatives” have brought us such wonders as the Patriot Act. They need to go away with the progressives. [/quote]
You have to look at reality . the left is were center used to be and the right is out in the boonies
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t know but I would say the long game of the RNC would be to try and convince everyone they are some how Moderate Conservative [/quote]
All that does is allow the center to get pulled further left.
The long game needs to include the opposite of what you are implying. We need (both parties) to bring the center back to the actual center. Right now “center” is a solid democrat a couple decades ago.
“Moderate conservatives” have brought us such wonders as the Patriot Act. They need to go away with the progressives. [/quote]
You have to look at reality . the left is were center used to be and the right is out in the boonies[/quote]
What the hell part of Arizona do you live in? That state is as red as it can get. Is there like a gay, liberal red light district in Phoenix?
The right alienates a large majority of the populace by clinging to social issues, which are outside the scope of government or highly unlikely to be changed.
I dont think you will see a Republican president, even with a full majority overturning Roe V Wade. Yet all the questions about it get asked.
Gay marriage? Hardly even an issue of government.
These positions might be good for the religious voting block. They are dwindling though. They are also effectively countered by the urban religious/community organization voting blocks.
I would say that alot of younger professional, and educated people would be more inclined to listen to the republican party if they dropped their social diatribes, as earning a paycheck makes one reticent to pay more in taxes.
Investing in someone who actually knows marketing and branding would help.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
3) How the Hispanic vote doesn’t love conservatives baffles me. Isn’t Hispanic culture big on hard work, pride, family, Jesus, and being the best you can be within your ability? I mean, really… Am I wrong here?[/quote]
They typically do vote conservative. Why do you think that gay marriage won’t pass in California? Hispanics who are deeply catholic won’t vote for it.
And we need to stop thinking about people in terms of minority because that’s going away quite quickly. There’s no difference between a white catholic and an Hispanic one.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
There would have to be some serious un-brainwashing of the electorate though.
We could start by burning Hollywood to the ground and fencing off all the exits.
What the republicans don’t get, which team Obama does: social media, the internet, the power Celebrity has over today’s youth, that expecting people to read and grow and understand intellectually on their own is going to keep the party minority, and how damn lazy youth is today.
Or, they could solve SS & Medicare issues, resolve immigration and repeal the Patriot Act, and coast to some easy wins for a couple decades.[/quote]
I honestly don’t understand that position at all. Hollywood is about entertainment and it’s up to us as parents and society to decide how to use that entertainment. Getting rid of it is surely not the answer. Hell, I’m pretty sure that when books first became commonplace people bemoaned losing oral traditions and how it made people lazy and stupid.
You’re wrong about Republicans not understanding the power of media. Reagan was a master at using the media and the images that it provoked. Hell, he was a child of Hollywood and saw it’s power firsthand. Since mass media there has been celebrity power over youth. We used celebrity power to sell war bonds, to get people to enlist, etc. It’s always been there. They know how important it is. Obama is just really good at using it.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
There would have to be some serious un-brainwashing of the electorate though.
We could start by burning Hollywood to the ground and fencing off all the exits.
What the republicans don’t get, which team Obama does: social media, the internet, the power Celebrity has over today’s youth, that expecting people to read and grow and understand intellectually on their own is going to keep the party minority, and how damn lazy youth is today.
Or, they could solve SS & Medicare issues, resolve immigration and repeal the Patriot Act, and coast to some easy wins for a couple decades.[/quote]
I honestly don’t understand that position at all. Hollywood is about entertainment and it’s up to us as parents and society to decide how to use that entertainment. Getting rid of it is surely not the answer. Hell, I’m pretty sure that when books first became commonplace people bemoaned losing oral traditions and how it made people lazy and stupid.
You’re wrong about Republicans not understanding the power of media. Reagan was a master at using the media and the images that it provoked. Hell, he was a child of Hollywood and saw it’s power firsthand. Since mass media there has been celebrity power over youth. We used celebrity power to sell war bonds, to get people to enlist, etc. It’s always been there. They know how important it is. Obama is just really good at using it.
james[/quote]
Come on man, you know I’m not serious about ending Hollywood. It is a flippant remark about a social trend that needs to slow its role.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
Come on man, you know I’m not serious about ending Hollywood. It is a flippant remark about a social trend that needs to slow its role.[/quote]
I think Reagan would disagree about it’s role needing to slow down…lol.
[quote]pittbulll wrote:
I don’t know but I would say the long game of the RNC would be to try and convince everyone they are some how Moderate Conservative [/quote]
All that does is allow the center to get pulled further left.
The long game needs to include the opposite of what you are implying. We need (both parties) to bring the center back to the actual center. Right now “center” is a solid democrat a couple decades ago.
“Moderate conservatives” have brought us such wonders as the Patriot Act. They need to go away with the progressives. [/quote]
You aren’t being facetious in saying that you think the center in America is left? We are a right of center nation as a whole in comparison to the world. Or are you simply saying that America’s center is moving to the left(I don’t agree with that necessarily either, but it at least would be somewhat arguable)?
The Republican long game likely needs to move it away from being stridently religious. American Demographics are moving away from that. Positions that are only tangentially about things other than religion like gay marriage will weaken the party if they make them litmus tests. There is a huge generational shift in belief systems and those are difficult if not impossible to change. The party needs to adopt to some of them or it will diminish.
[/quote]
That would be the dumbest thing the republican party could do. The religious constituency is huge and the democrats have rejected the religious by and large already. Republicans need to welcome them with open arms.
All your saying here is make them like democrats. [/quote]
The religious constituency is shrinking. [/quote]
[quote]Sloth wrote:
None. Just keep trying to win minorities over.[/quote]
In the most basic terms, this.
Here is a rough outline of what has been in my head lately, and this is just a rough draft.
The center, what is a moderate today, has shifted so far left, we may be lost forever down the spiral. But, that being said, someone like Ron Paul or Gary Johnson has no shot what-so-ever in today’s world. Conservatives have to understand this, and start slowly pulling the center back to where it belongs.
Conservatives have got to fight back against the narrative. Have to. At this point, if any reporter actually reports anything positive about a republican, they are cast off the reservation. There needs to be an infiltration into Hollywood, music, social media, everything. No need to be aggressive, but it needs to be socially acceptable to be a conservative again.
How the Hispanic vote doesn’t love conservatives baffles me. Isn’t Hispanic culture big on hard work, pride, family, Jesus, and being the best you can be within your ability? I mean, really… Am I wrong here?
The likes of anyone who’s hands touched the Patriot act, need to be sacrificed for the good of the country. This is a massive problem the republicans need to be the ones to fix. And it is quite simple, they were doing all the spying and illegal wire tapping before the law, so WTF, just go back to the way it was before, and stop the people with bombs strapped to their chest.
Branding works. [/quote]
You are correct, there is one thing the is keeping Republicans from getting the Latino vote and that is immigration.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
3) How the Hispanic vote doesn’t love conservatives baffles me. Isn’t Hispanic culture big on hard work, pride, family, Jesus, and being the best you can be within your ability? I mean, really… Am I wrong here?
[/quote]
3.1) Some people believe in all that but also believe in an extensive centralized welfare state, high taxes, heavy government regulation of business, minimal civilian access to guns, etc.
3.2) Some people are social conservatives but economic leftists who vote based on the items in #3.1 above.
3.3) More of them might eventually come around, and change their minds about some of the items in #3.1 above. More of anybody might eventually come around.
[/quote]
It depends on who came here to make a living and who came here with their hand out. The cuban population is largely republican. They hate anything that reminds them of communism. [/quote]
They also do not have to worry about being deported. Issues of immigration are of no concern to them and that is the difference between them and all other Latinos.
1: Medicare and SS: No more reform talk. Just mouth some stuff about cutting waste and fraud. Kick the can down the road. Medicare is just going to have to go broke. Or, cause us to go broke, more accurately. It’s ‘free’ stuff. Free stuff is popular.
Pretty much the same with other entitlements.
Sure we can still talk about securing the borders, but we better convince folks that there are going to be some great big doors to come through. Latino vote is the future of the Republican party. If there’s a future for it at all.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
This thread is moot if Obama wins tonight, and that looks to be certain.
If you can’t beat Obama, just give up. Blow up the party and give the fuck up.
All hail comrade O-Bam[/quote]
I think that the big reason that Obama is beating Romney is because of social issues. More and more people, especially young people, are socially liberal, and younger people are just going to continue to replace older voters. I think that if the Republicans can produce a candidate that supports social issues that are important to young people and keeps religious views to a minimum, while staying with conservative views on economic and foreign policy as well as the idea of smaller government, then they could win 2016 in a massive landslide. The problem with this is that I believe that many Republicans and conservatives in general care more about social issues as well and will not compromise on this.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
This thread is moot if Obama wins tonight, and that looks to be certain.
If you can’t beat Obama, just give up. Blow up the party and give the fuck up.
All hail comrade O-Bam[/quote]
I think that the big reason that Obama is beating Romney is because of social issues. More and more people, especially young people, are socially liberal, and younger people are just going to continue to replace older voters. I think that if the Republicans can produce a candidate that supports social issues that are important to young people and keeps religious views to a minimum, while staying with conservative views on economic and foreign policy as well as the idea of smaller government, then they could win 2016 in a massive landslide. The problem with this is that I believe that many Republicans and conservatives in general care more about social issues as well and will not compromise on this.[/quote]
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
This thread is moot if Obama wins tonight, and that looks to be certain.
If you can’t beat Obama, just give up. Blow up the party and give the fuck up.
All hail comrade O-Bam[/quote]
I think that the big reason that Obama is beating Romney is because of social issues. More and more people, especially young people, are socially liberal, and younger people are just going to continue to replace older voters. I think that if the Republicans can produce a candidate that supports social issues that are important to young people and keeps religious views to a minimum, while staying with conservative views on economic and foreign policy as well as the idea of smaller government, then they could win 2016 in a massive landslide. The problem with this is that I believe that many Republicans and conservatives in general care more about social issues as well and will not compromise on this.[/quote]
[quote]Dr.Matt581 wrote:
The problem with this is that I believe that many Republicans and conservatives in general care more about social issues as well and will not compromise on this.[/quote]
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
This thread is moot if Obama wins tonight, and that looks to be certain.
If you can’t beat Obama, just give up. Blow up the party and give the fuck up.
All hail comrade O-Bam[/quote]
I think that the big reason that Obama is beating Romney is because of social issues.[/quote]
Indeed.
A majority of people will say that “the economy” is their number one topic of concern. The polls consistently reflect this. But that doesn’t mean that “the economy” is the prime motivator of their actual vote.
Simply because even if they are concerned with “the economy” they don’t think anymore that this concern can or will be fixed by politicians.
On the other hand, they DO think that politicians can make thing better or worse on social issues.
And they WILL vote accordingly.
[quote]countingbeans wrote:
This thread is moot if Obama wins tonight, and that looks to be certain.
If you can’t beat Obama, just give up. Blow up the party and give the fuck up.
All hail comrade O-Bam[/quote]
I think that the big reason that Obama is beating Romney is because of social issues. More and more people, especially young people, are socially liberal, and younger people are just going to continue to replace older voters. I think that if the Republicans can produce a candidate that supports social issues that are important to young people and keeps religious views to a minimum, while staying with conservative views on economic and foreign policy as well as the idea of smaller government, then they could win 2016 in a massive landslide. The problem with this is that I believe that many Republicans and conservatives in general care more about social issues as well and will not compromise on this.[/quote]
I’m not convinced of that because a large portion of the Latinos are Catholic. Like real Catholics, not just in name.