You and l share preferences - l am very right on social stances but have difficulty with laissez faire economics. I practiced more equitable profit sharing as a business owner, but do believe strongly in won’t work, won’t eat.
Re Christian bidnessmen
They are a blight on the Gospel and force me to remind all to follow God and not man. A man will fail you every time.
Then honestly, there’s nothing I can do with that. If you can’t recognize the difference - the objective difference, one is a garden variety politician and the other is a pathological liar - then you’ve made up your mind independent of the facts and reason.
Apple’s and oranges. You weren’t using your friend and his sins as a means to achieve an end. In that case, no, he isn’t a proxy. That’s the whole point and difference from your example - Evangelicals are using Trump as a proxy. They are using him and his sinful tactics to get what they want. Look at my mobster/hit man example.
I’ve seen a lot of this myself.
I always get a kick out of people who play the card of “If you were a real Christian you’d do this or that…”
If I want to know why a particular Christian votes the way he or she does, I’d ask them. I’m an atheist and a skeptic, but as I’ve grown older I’ve learned that I generally like and respect the Christians I know more than the other atheists I know.
I’ve also learned that anyone who believes they can connect the dots between an individual’s spiritual beliefs and voting patterns in a way that the spiritual individual cannot is an individual who isn’t worth listening to.
Biden completely lied and plagiarized himself out of the presidential race in the 80s.
Don’t take this the wrong way, but if someone can’t discern the difference between Biden’s political lying and Trump’s daily pathological lying - and the degrees to which he does it in his official role - I question that person’s intelligence or his/her honesty.
Key difference - pathological. It’s that cut and dried. There’s no credible comparison. And it’s obvious.
This is exactly my problem. I’m not a particularly good Christian, I use way too much foul language (a bad habit I’ve never kicked), and I have a list of failings a mile long (what’s that the apostle Paul said: “the good I want to do, I do not…”?) But I do take it seriously.
And I can’t square it. I do understand holding your nose to vote, and certainly that we have almost no model leaders in our current system. That aspect, I understand even if I don’t agree.
But not full throated support.
Me too. Watching your back is perfectly reasonable, but I don’t think legalism in the name of profit fits the worldview.
The way I personally see this is similar to how thunderbolt does. But even if I didn’t see it that way, one could reasonably apply the same logic as in 2016, but in reverse. Namely, Trump was an unknown at the time and going against a known “evil” for the evangelicals in HRC.
Now, Trump is known. And Biden is comparitively garden variety. But let’s say that you see them as about equally bad on a moral scale–in that case Biden is the unknown quantity. Not even that, as we have tape of him over 8 years of Obama. So a reasonable person can look and say “he’s not going to crap the bed like Trump has”.
I’m not sure what exactly I’m doing in November, but I know it won’t be Trump even with supreme court picks.
Can’t believe you guys are not bothered by the Sanders/Squad marching orders that will be in effect whether Biden is cognizant or not.
I won’t bother to respond to Trump is getting us into war, etc. I stated my thoughts plenty over the years. We are simply on different sides here, regarding this issue.
Of course I’m right … 
This makes for good propaganda on the Right, but it’s overstated. There’s a reason Sanders didn’t win the nomination, and the Squad remains a fringe element - they don’t (and won’t run things).
Biden and Harris will be standard issue liberals - and radical leftists will be deeply disappointed in them.
Meh we were told for 8 years that Obama was a Kenyan born socialist molded in the laboratories of George Soros who would take all the guns and ruin everything. And he ended up being a million times more stable than our current dude. And all those horror stories spun ended up being pretty well wrong.
I suppose we could worry that Biden will represent the craziest of the left despite a career of being fairly moderate. We don’t have to worry if Trump will represent the craziest of the right or whatever we want to call him. He’s a known quantity of batshit instability at this point and that’s not a wildcard I would like us to continue to play no matter how exciting he makes each day for discussion on here.
You two are seemingly oblivious to the massive move to the left of the Dems.
Gaslight away, but Squad plus nutzo Sanders, Harris, Warren, Schiff, Hirono, et al have made this not even HRC’s Democrat Party, much less your parents’ or grandparents’.
They are radical by any measure.
Our campaign ended several months ago, but our movement continues. And it’s getting stronger every day.
Many of the ideas we fought for, that just a few years ago were considered “radical”, are now mainstream.
But let us be clear, if Donald Trump is re-elected, all the progress we have made will be in jeopardy.
Bernie Sanders tonight’s DNC taping.
Even if, it’s no comparison to how far the GOP has moved to the “right” into weird ethno-nationalism, strongman worship, and not even trying to hide it crony capitalism. I’ll take the crew you mentioned 10 times out of 10 before I’ll buy into this Americanized version of National Front.
They aren’t, but let’s say they were and Biden wins - what will they legitimately do in four years with a (likely) divided Congress? Dead serious - what radical legislation do you think will get passed?
Exactly. It’s always the same, tired trope - we’re one election from a socialist tearing up the Constitution, yadda yadda yadda. And far from being a socialist that gives all the rich people’s money back to the peasants, Obama was too friendly to elites and Wall Street, which is a big reason Trump got elected.
Obama was supposed to be the end of the Republic - while I don’t think he was a great President, he was never a true threat to our institutions or way of life.
It’s another why the Right is shown to be phony. The Right doesn’t produce new ideas or even stand up for the ones it once professed as its unshakeable principles - it’s a marketing machine that sells fear and resentment. In its defense, it’s good at it - it makes a ton of money. But it’s a marketing scam before it’s a political philosophy - and I don’t take it seriously any more.
I refer you to Treco’s article.
This x 10…
This x 10…
And Trump has made the Republican Party vastly different than what they stood for even 5 years ago. Eviscerating the first amendment if he can, exploding the national debt (while also threatening to default on it), being for universal health insurance, etc. I’ve pointed it out numerous times before. Donald Trump is largely for the things Republicans said were awful while Obama was in office. He’s not a typical Republican he’s a full blown lunatic.
It’s an odd take to talk about Dems being complete different than 30 years ago while Republicans have a President who has been almost the exact opposite of what they wanted during the Obama years. And perhaps even more scary someone so unprincipled that they could do anything at any moment.
If the Dems hold the house and senate and Trump wins you wouldn’t even be remotely surprised if he started working with them on universal health care, massive infrastructure bills, etc. The GOP is powerless to stand up to him and Trump has stood for many liberal ideas in the past. A Trump who doesn’t need to worry about an election should fear conservatives when the President isn’t one.