You’re confused. The school doesn’t teach that. The parents do. Parents that get involved do not end up with lazy kids.
Ideal situation:
Parents are involved from day one and teach the kid all the right things.
The kids go to school, work hard, and don’t have their lived runned by it.
They can come home, play sports, or do some other activity that is productive and fun because the parents were involved from day one.
At my school, most of the “gifted” students’ parents were involved with them, and they worked hard, and they did many productive things when not in school.
i would have killed at 10 yrs old to be in a school that took education seriously. i was stuck with teachers who were not qualified to teach the classes they were assigned (an example is the algebra teacher who was an english major and had not seen this math in almost 20 yrs. she had no clue how to do the problems, let alone teach how. i basically had to lern on my own.). i would have loved to recieve a higher level of education, along with the higher expectation, even if that meant those hours.
In all honesty, I am not even certified. In fact, my degree is in political science and I tested out of the basic math courses required to get my degree. This is my fourth year teaching math, but I never took a single college math course outside of statistics.
All the “teaching” in the world done by parents isn’t worth crap unless it’s reinforced on a daily basis. For kids, their entire childhood (education and social life) is centered around school. The “ideal” lessons learned at home need to actually be utilized in our everyday lives for them to mean anything useful. Kids should have to earn their playtime just like the rest of us—talk about a life lesson that they can take with them. There’s plenty of time to play on weekends, holidays and summer vacation. The school year should be spent learning. And, yes, I do consider extra-curricular activities acceptable. Those are the hours when kids learn social skills like leadership and teamwork. I don’t think kids should get home before their parents. Their days should be as productive as possible. Kickin’ it on your best friend’s Playstation doesn’t cut it.
Do these kids get any physical education? I dont mean recess and kick ball. I mean do they get taught skills like throwing, catching, locomotor, nonlocomotor, dribbling, kicking, etc. These are things that need to be taught and there is some research that says physical activity can assist in classroom learning.
/Disclaimer: I know jack about education. I am successful professional computer geek, not educator. My statement is anecdotal/
For my life it seems that there is a summary of things that don’t matter and things that do. Perhaps this list will clarify.
Parents caring: Depends on what you mean by caring. My parents were never home. I cooked, cleaned, and worked from age 15 while attending school fulltime. My parents cared enough to provide clothes, food, and constant encouragement to do more than they had during their adolescence.
Work Ethic: This is where my parents shined. They built a work ethic that has produced (out of a white trashitani household) A Network Ops Mgr for a Major studio, 2 mathematicians, 1 physicist, and 1 mechanical engineer. (My 2 younger brothers both hold 2 degrees and are currently in the Navy.) My youngest brother is a regional chess champ, straight A student, and general know-it-all. All of this was based on one day in my adolescence. I was frustrated because one of my peers was far better at a musical instrument than I was, and I was whining. My dad stated succintly,“Shut up and work harder.” That’s what I did… and I was all-state for high school for band, football, chess, and academic team.
Standardized Tests: They blow. Period. Students shouldn’t be taught by test. I spent most of my Sr year tutoring “LD” students on Biology, Survival Math, and English Comp. They didn’t have problem learning. They didn’t learn by repetition. They learned by concept. Once you taught them how to sail they could navigate the course on their own. And they did. I see much of the same in people I interview for positions or just simple conversation. They don’t know how to sail, they just have a particular series of steps memorized and as long as those work everyone is happy.
Kids should be kids. Bullshit! That is the biggest load of crap that I have ever heard. Kids should be allowed free time and time to play, but that isn’t a priority. How much of a priority do you think play was in a farm household of the 1800’s? Not much of one. I know one thing for sure, that breed of hardnosed, driven, compassionate*, and capable people are sorely missed in the world today. When I was in the USMC I remember several times bawling someone about their misdeeds and having a grown man burst into tears. Not only a grown man, but a man supposedly trained to be a soldier. A defender of our people! Not to knock the military, I love the Corps, but the “bleeding hearts” are trying hard to immasculate even the warriors among us.
*Compassionate? Yes. I definitely believe hardship and experience breed compassion. There are some good illustrations of this, including the Japanese education system which uses “student-taught” days to teach the children how to organize groups. This “day” gives the additional benefit of imbuing the child with a greater understanding of the teacher’s role everyday.
Standardized tests may “suck,” but they’re our only objective measure to see how well students have actually learned, compared to one another.
And all you people talking about how foreign school systems have supposedly jumped beyond us by leaps and bounds, I encourage you to actually read my previous post on the subject.
I must comment on this “many poor countries kick our ass in the classroom idea”.
First of all in China they limit the number of children you can have. If you have more than is allowed you are severely fined. Only the truly wealthy can have “extra” kids, and even then society frowns on it. Next, if you can only have one or two kids, what do you do if one is retarded or born with major disorders like cerebral palsy? In china some have been known to kill the child. There have been reports in the past of chinese authorities not prosecuting these parents when this happens because it is understood, though not stated, that this is the parents’ civic duty.
In the U.S.A. we must educate every single kid no matter what. In the United States we spend an unbelievable amount of money on special education. It can cost as much as 4-5 times more to educate a “special” child than a regular child. And this doesn’t just mean the kids who get wheeled around school by the teacher’s aid, completely ignorant to what is going on around them. I’m talking about the kids who don’t get taught how to accept any kind of authority by their parents, and get labeled Behaviorally Handicapped. (When I was in high school this was labeled being an asshole, but I guess we’re all a lot smarter now). Our building is the biggest in our school district and we have 140 full time teachers. 27 of them are special education teachers . . . also known as babysitters, camp counselors, big brothers, feelings validators, etc. Over 18% of the students in our district are special ed. In the 1950s I can promise you that number was nowhere near 18%. What has fundamentlly changed in our society in the past 50 years? Today nobody is accountable for anything. “Your family has no money?” Society didn’t give you a chance. “You shot somebody?” What do you expect? the schools failed the young man (murderer). “Your kid can’t sit down?” You’re not a bad parent, he has a psychological disorder, here’s some drugs. I could go on and on. At some point we have to “leave some children behind” in order to save OUR future. It’s cold and heartless, and yeah I’m glad I’m not one of these troubled youths, but I’m not. And most of, if not all of you reading this aren’t. So what are we going to do? We are facing a serious crisis that could be the downfall of our society.
Remember, Rome fell primarily because its politicians began giving free food to the poor, and mass entertainment to the masses. Each politician ran on the platform “I’ll give more free stuff than that guy”. Ancient Rome became a big bunch of lazy losers. Rome lasted almost 500 years. The U.S.A. has only been around a little over 200.
First of all, I’m with Goldberg. What he said and asked.
Second, “let kids be kids” - is utter bullshit. Perfect example if my neighbor. Typical single mom who is barely raising her daughter. I mean by “barely” the following: her now 8-yr old runs around the block, unsurpervised and is not the brightest bulb in the pack. We’ve seen her written abilities and I’ve seen better by 5-year olds.
Perfect example of someone who’s raisin’ their kid “to be a kid”. This girl is going to grow up worthless. Just like her mom.
I’d like to offer a few comments on some of the topics discussed in this thread…
Some of the general sentiment expressed has been that getting an education guarantees a good job with a good income. This is quite the contrary. Many people graduate from college with four-year degrees and can find little better than minimum wage paying jobs. One, but certainly not the only, reason for this is the United States’ shift to being a service oriented society. There are plenty of jobs available in the service industry and many of them have a $5.15/hr hiring wage.
Not to single anyone out because my comments are more general than directed but Rathman stated that “WORK ETHIC” is what U.S. students are lacking compared to students around the global. The “work hard and you will succeed” line is one of the greatest myths in U.S. culture.
Q: What do you supposed the best way to become rich is?
A: The number one way to become rich and successful is to inherit wealth.
Let me break this down statement down for you (as briefly, yet as thoroughly as possible)…
The wealth distribution in the United States is stratified into three general layers, which most everyone has heard before
Rich
Middle Class
Poor
Each of these layers can be subdivided into an upper and lower level.
Now, a few examples:
The top 10 percent of wealthy people in the U.S. control 70 percent of the countries wealth.*
The top 1 percent of wealthy people in the U.S. control 38 percent of the countries wealth.
If you know anything about the magic of compounding interest it is now evident why it is so easy for the rich to keep getting richer almost effortlessly.
To wrap these comments up, how many of you have ever worked 50 or 60 hour work weeks?
And if you have, what have you gained from this?
If you work for someone else, what have they gained from your extra 10 or 20 hours of work?
Probably more than you did and they probably did a lot less work than you.
Keep this in mind the next time you equate hard work with success. I am not saying it does not happen, just that it is more the exception than the rule.
Apologies for this terribly long post and I applaud anyone that read all of it but I felt some basic background necessary to convey my message.
Now, please flame away, but also think about what I have said
Sorry guys, but I have to harp on the work ethic issue. For example, I just got hired to work for an insurance company. At the seminar that the CEO gave to all the prospective employees he had to actually emphasize to everyone that, yes, it was damn good money, but, “you know that we believe in sacrifice first for benefits later.” After explaining himself you know what he actually meant—we were actually going to have to WORK for the money! Why do you think this guy had to take 10 minutes out of this seminar to remind everyone that you actually need to work for your pay?! I’ll tell you why—because too many people in this country want their shit for free. They come in late—they leave early—they spend all day jerking off instead of working…If you want to stand out in today’s workforce all you have to do is just do your damn job—because chances are that your peers aren’t. Chances are that you’re not smarter than them—you just have a better work ethic. Of course, you can’t be a total moron and succeed, but you’ll never make it if you aren’t at least willing to work for it. If your parents and teachers taught it to you then you’re one of the lucky ones, because it will come naturally.
I agree with you 100%. They do have a very structured P.E. class, but even that isn’t really enough. Especially considering the high rates of diabetes in their community. I’m quitting this year to start an afterschool program that revolves around sports development and character education.
That was the most pessimistic thing I’ve read in a long time. What is your point? Life is hard and your aren’t gauranteed success even if you work hard? No shit. But you definitely stand a better chance if you work hard and are educated. Bill Gates didn’t inherit his wealth. Neither did Sam Walton. They were/are billionaires. The vast majority of millionaires in America didn’t inherit their wealth. And as far as graduating and not being able to get a job, that’s crap. Sure you might have to settle. Boo hoo. There is a huge teacher shortage in America, and that pays enough to live comfortably. The choices aren’t dream job or McDonalds.
found this from a web site on Chinese school system check it out pretty intreasting goes along w/ this topic and to goldberg yes they do get physical activity.
How many of your upper crust that you mentioned actually inherited that wealth? Let us know.
(That’s a great argument by the way – “the best way to get rich is to be born rich.” NO SHIT! Why don’t you toss in a statistic about how 100% of people who win the lotto are lotto winners? What has that got to do with upward mobility?)
Most, people that inherit wealth lose the wealth real fast. Its those who “WORK HARD” and become wealthly in the proccess stays wealthy because they know the value of the mighty dollar.
OK, I am going to confess that “hard work” is slightly misleading. You have to work hard and SMART. In other words, you need to have a goal/plan that makes sense in the bigger picture.
Working very hard at a skill or academic accomplishment which is known to be completely unmarketable and/or pay poorly is probably not going to get you anywhere unless you are incredibly lucky. This is more or less common sense. There is a simple issue of supply and demand. At any point there are only so many openings for people with Ph.D’s in art history [random arbitrary example - no nasty letters, please ]. We do need those people in society to write books and teach classes and staff museums, but it is going to be a pretty finite demand.
So while you’re hard at work you’d better periodically step back and evaluate the goal you’re working towards. Then there are other skills you might need like figuring out how to market yourself, how to network, how to make keep and maintain connections, how to survive office politics, and so on.
True about the education not always meaning high pay. The two men I know that are worth the most, one of whom is worth about $100 million, don’t have degrees. They both came close but no cigar. One started his own company, eventually being in on the start up phases of a few companies. He designed everything from toys to tape drives over the years. The other guy was a roadie for a concert promoter and made sound equipment for him in the winter. He went on to own a stereo shop but he made his money when he started selling computer networks to large corporations. Now he’s an idea man for AT&T wireless and makes more money than God but less than the first guy.
Of the people I know with doctorate degrees none of them make half of either of these two. They do well but they are not upper upper class or even middle upper class. Most of them do work in fields that they find a lot of personal value in though so there is that tradeoff.
However I don’t agree that hard work won’t equate to monetary success. There are no guarantees in life but one thing is a pretty sure bet is that you don’t have much of a chance if you have no skills and aren’t willing to work. Both guys above worked their asses off for a long time to get where they are.
