Funding some social programs is not tantamount to socialism.
Like, which ones?
In my mind, socialism means state or collective ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods with the goal of broadscale wealth redistribution and the creation of an egalitarian society. [/quote]
Yes, in your mind and a nice copy/paste job from wikipedia
[quote]
That’s not what a slight tax increase on the wealthy and funding several social programs deemed to improve the lives of citizens with the goal of increasing overall longterm prosperity does or aims to do.[/quote]
‘… slight tax increase on the wealthy’ – again, here we go with income distribution and class warfare. It must suck to loathe those with more money than you.
You do understand that Marxism, Socialism, and Communism are all ‘egalitarian’ philosophies that sound great (to some) in theory, but have been abysmal failures in History (ie in practice). In social Darwinism, they are evolutionary dead-ends.
A simple ‘flat tax’ is more ‘egalitarian’ than any progressive tax structure (ie one that favors income distribution) could ever be.
You hit the nail on the head on… it’s one of the most fundamental changes that they never can do. They can’t stop spending.
Look what just happened. All week the number was 700 Billion (unless I missed something). Next thing you know, it’s 850 with 150 in shit I can’t even stomach let alone try to figure out why. How the fuck does this happen ?
Even in this time of doom and gloom, they end up padding this thing with shit that will never make a difference to me ( my children don’t play with bows and arrows, so 2 million to a wooden arrow maker I cannot comprehend).
You read some of this stuff and you want to punch something (do they have any life sized figures of the local congress person)? Maybe we can start a business like the Fathead Co. !
The motherfuckers can’t stop spending…no matter what. It is now a disease, and the taxpayer is the never ending flow of money.
Tell you what…there may have to be a 200 million people march on Washington real soon. Maybe the week before April 15th.
[quote]jenz wrote:
unfortunately i couldnt watch it on tv but i really HATE palin just for being such a conservative bitch (yeah a bitch) and a religious fanatic (e.g. claims that war in iraq was gods will), her teenage daughter is pregnant and she plays it all down,
But i wonder what she would say if obama hat a pregnant teenage daughter (probably something like how can he control america if he cant control his daughter…)
this may sound a bit rough, but thats my opinion, conservatives just want to keep the status quo (like oil supply - war in iraq) instead of improving things for the general public and the rest of the world.
the US as a big powerful nation should really show more responsibility than just raiding countries for cheap ressources[/quote]
Most retarded post of the thread. You should have to have put in a few dozen posts on the other forums before getting into PWI.
Funding some social programs is not tantamount to socialism.
Like, which ones?
[/quote]
I am far from a socialist, but seriously, people need to stop acting like “socializing” something will turn the U.S into a “socialist” society (one in which there is no private property).
And besides, there are already numerous socialized institutions in this country. I don’t see/hear the majority of people bitching because they get to send their children to public school free of charge.
In most cases I hear people bitching about how the public schools are underfunded (which they are). The public school system is a socialized institution that even those who use the term “socialize” like some sort of 4 letter word don’t seem to have a problem with.
The united states is the ONLY westernized country that does not have a socialized form of health care, and quite frankly I don’t see Canadians flocking to the U.S. to escape their free health care. It’s the other way around in most cases.
Funding some social programs is not tantamount to socialism.
Like, which ones?
I am far from a socialist, but seriously, people need to stop acting like “socializing” something will turn the U.S into a “socialist” society (one in which there is no private property).
And besides, there are already numerous socialized institutions in this country. I don’t see/hear the majority of people bitching because they get to send their children to public school free of charge.
[/quote]
Free of charge? Are you kidding me?
Have you been hiding under a rock? We spend a shit load of money on education. the more money we spend the further we fall in international standardized testing. What a fucking bargin. And if you think there is no one bitching about public schooling, you aren’t listening. One of worst institutions in the country.
[quote]
The united states is the ONLY westernized country that does not have a socialized form of health care, and quite frankly I don’t see Canadians flocking to the U.S. to escape their free health care. It’s the other way around in most cases.[/quote]
This is getting ridiculous. You need to read a book or a fucking newspaper once and a while buddy. This is 100% incorrect. not even worth going through. Maybe someone else has time to waste.
Funding some social programs is not tantamount to socialism.
Like, which ones?
I am far from a socialist, but seriously, people need to stop acting like “socializing” something will turn the U.S into a “socialist” society (one in which there is no private property).
And besides, there are already numerous socialized institutions in this country. I don’t see/hear the majority of people bitching because they get to send their children to public school free of charge.
Free of charge? Are you kidding me?
[/quote]
Ok, not free of charge. You pay taxes to send your children to school. But you pay WAY less than you would if you had to send them to private school.
France= socialized health care system
Canada= socialized health care system
Germany= socialized health care system
Great Britain= socialized health care system
Sweden= socialized health care system
[quote]jsbrook wrote:
Mick28 wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
what are the specific Obama/Biden proposals you are against?
Well, when they talk about only raising taxes on “the rich” I wonder who really gobbles that up?
If you over tax a guy who has an S Corp because his company makes say 500-K, don’t you think there are repercussions? Employees may not get a raise and his prices may go up. Do you really think he’s going to eat that tax hike alone?
If you’ve learned nothing else from this latest bailout fiasco, know this: We have ONE economy, when you “tax the rich” you absolutely hurt the middle class one way or another.
Make GE pay higher taxes and the cost of light bulbs go up.
DUH
In addition to that you don’t encourage business expansion which hurts the expansion of the actual tax base as it slows down growth.
But liberals never ever understood this why am I expecting them to understand now?
The top 5% already pay over 50% of all income tax anyway. I mean in all fairness much more should they have to pay?
Ha
In theory I would agree with you. In practice, it doesn’t shake out like that. I talked to my Dad about this. Only 5% of small business owners actually make more than $250,000. And my Dad makes a good bit over $250,000 and said the plan as laid out would only result in about a $1000 increase in taxes for him.
So, I don’t expect this to have any appreciable affect on small businesses and jobs. He said he’d happily pay $10,000 more to get this country out of the whole and moving in the right direction.[/quote]
Your dad already figured his taxes under Obama’s plan? Really? Where did he get the forms? Did he pay his accountant to do it or did he do it himself?
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
Ok, not free of charge. You pay taxes to send your children to school. But you pay WAY less than you would if you had to send them to private school.
[/quote]
Wrong.
I send 2 kids to private school. Total cost is less than my personal contribution to the public school system via percentage of my property tax.
The teachers at the private school are paid 60% of what the Government school teachers (unionized) make, have 1/2 the benefits, and a quarter of the budget, yet the test scores out score every public school in the state (not a unique thing).
Where are my vouchers?
Incidentally, socialized states/nation do not necessarily preclude private ownership of land. Look at the rest of the world.
[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
France= socialized health care system
Canada= socialized health care system
Germany= socialized health care system
Great Britain= socialized health care system
Sweden= socialized health care system
[quote]lixy wrote:
therover wrote:
( my children don’t play with bows and arrows, so 2 million to a wooden arrow maker I cannot comprehend).
Actually, it’s 6 millions.[/quote]
Where are you getting 6 million? Has anyone read the the bill? All the senate has done is put extensions on provisions that already exist. The “wooden arrow act” as I like to call it states this:
SEC. 503. EXEMPTION FROM EXCISE TAX FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROWS DESIGNED FOR USE BY CHILDREN.
(a) In General- Paragraph (2) of section 4161(b) is amended by redesignating subparagraph (B) as subparagraph (C) and by inserting after subparagraph (A) the following new subparagraph:
`(B) EXEMPTION FOR CERTAIN WOODEN ARROW SHAFTS- Subparagraph (A) shall not apply to any shaft consisting of all natural wood with no laminations or artificial means of enhancing the spine of such shaft (whether sold separately or incorporated as part of a finished or unfinished product) of a type used in the manufacture of any arrow which after its assembly--
`(i) measures 5/16 of an inch or less in diameter, and
`(ii) is not suitable for use with a bow described in paragraph (1)(A).'.
(b) Effective Date- The amendments made by this section shall apply to shafts first sold after the date of enactment of this Act.
This one is doesn’t even have an extension added to it, they changed the wording.
I agree that the Senate and the Congress should have just either passed or not passed that damn “Economic Stabalization Act” but they shouldn’t have added all this junk on it.
If the economy was in such dire straights and the country was going to fold if this bill wasn’t passed why the FUCK did they all need these amendments added in order to pass it?
If they truly believed that this bill was the only resolve to the impending doom of the nation then it should have passed with flying colors the first time around.
I am so fucking tired of being played by the Politicians of this country as everybody should be. If you aren’t pissed off about this then you have some serious thinking to do about where you want to live and how you want to live.
I know this is long but I am pissed off!!!
God bless America!!! and if you don’t like that then you can go and Fuck yourself!!!
You hit the nail on the head on… it’s one of the most fundamental changes that they never can do. They can’t stop spending.
Look what just happened. All week the number was 700 Billion (unless I missed something). Next thing you know, it’s 850 with 150 in shit I can’t even stomach let alone try to figure out why. How the fuck does this happen ?
Even in this time of doom and gloom, they end up padding this thing with shit that will never make a difference to me ( my children don’t play with bows and arrows, so 2 million to a wooden arrow maker I cannot comprehend).
You read some of this stuff and you want to punch something (do they have any life sized figures of the local congress person)? Maybe we can start a business like the Fathead Co. !
The motherfuckers can’t stop spending…no matter what. It is now a disease, and the taxpayer is the never ending flow of money.
Tell you what…there may have to be a 200 million people march on Washington real soon. Maybe the week before April 15th. [/quote]
what you mention is bad enought but then you hear Obama talking about spending 1 trillion dollars on new spending every tax payer should be asking where the hell is my money going to? Our failing school systems that we continue to throw billions of dollars into, illegal immigrants,welfare and EBT cards for violent criminals, section 8 housing for people who shouldn’t qualify.The list goes on.When is enough Enough?
[quote]Mick28 wrote:
And why does she love her? Because she’s every womans sister, every daughters Mom, every older ladies daughter and every mans fantasty…Or maybe just mine…
[/quote]
Yeah, just yours. Well apparently not just yours, but definitely not mine. I really don’t understand this. I mean, yeah, she’s attractive – for a politician! Is your fantasy really a middle-aged woman. I feel sorry for you if that’s the best your sexual imagination can muster.
And I’m tired of hearing about hockey moms. No one plays hockey in America.
I send 2 kids to private school. Total cost is less than my personal contribution to the public school system via percentage of my property tax.
[/quote]
Really?
I have no reason not to believe this, but I didn’t find this to be true in either California or Wisconsin, and property taxes are much higher here in Wisconsin.
I don’t know, maybe I was just looking at really expensive private schools.