The Nudge Squad

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
81

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]H factor wrote:
Like some have argued this isn’t really anything new government has been creating incentives for certain behaviors in all sorts of sectors for a long time. Subsidies, sin taxes, banning online poker, tax breaks for children, etc you could come up with a million more examples of nudging.

I’m not anymore scared of where nudging might lead than anything else big government might lead to. We have the government the majority of us want. While I may not agree with it, I find it hard to believe that people think a big government isn’t something Americans are for. The last two Presidents have expanded government greatly and both got re-elected. Tells me most people aren’t thinking like I am. Bitch and moan about it all day long, but we have the government we want. We keep electing the fuckers. [/quote]

Would people even notice if they were effectively nudged to want this government?[/quote]

It’s an interesting thought. I think at some point our freedom has just be breaking down to the point where people don’t really care that much about it. They accept the status quo because damn it life isn’t that bad for most people in the USA. We have fast internet, AC, PS3’s, pizza, etc. I just think the more comfortable people get the less engaged they are in the process. Forget the news we have Honey Boo Boo recorded and we aren’t caught up with Duck Dynasty or the Bachelor yet.

People care when it directly effects them in a way they feel it. If you were a teacher and you lost your job because of a policy you might care. If you’re a farmer and something passes that is bad for you you might care. If you own a business and say a health care law effects you as an owner you might care :slight_smile: Doesn’t directly effect one of us? Hey sucks for that guy.

But in general I think we want a big government. After 9/11 we had to go get the bad guys. Expand the military. Erode freedoms. Patriot Act. Hey bad people are out there. The what about our freedom crowd wasn’t very vocal. Something like Sandy or Katrina happens and people clamor for the government. Economic crisis and everyone wants the government to fix it. Stimulus checks. Cash for clunkers. Bailouts.

It’s what the majority wants. I think most Americans are comfortable and when they hear a problem they want the government to make it go away so we can get back to Call of Duty.

I’m just rambling like a lunatic though so who knows. [/quote]

Nah, you make good points. I don’t have time to go into them right now though. Not that I would largely disagree. [/quote]

I just think people pay a LOT more attention to shit when things aren’t comfortable. Let’s be honest most of the people in politics type forums on the internet are freaks. I know the vast majority of people I work with and am friends with pretty much don’t give a fuck about politics. Sure they will get up in arms and yell from time to time, but they are hardly informed nor do I think they are passionate. We see passion here, but it’s from a small amount of people. Even if we disagree a bunch (and I disagree with a ton on here) we are weird in the sense that we discuss and think about politics.

82

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

So we are to assume you would have zero objection to this program if a Republican administration was in control of it?[/quote]

You’re god damn right I wouldn’t. I may seem like a Progressive shill to the nutjobs in this forum, but there are a lot of things the Pubs’ did that I really appreciate. I’m sure there are other things that I am on board with, but off the top of my head I am pro gun (to an extent) and pro military (ditto), and I think they’ve (mostly) got that bang on. At least for the current environment. Like I said I grew up in the mountains and work for the military…I sleep pretty comfortably at night.

It really seems weird to me that some of these things we treat as political issues are political at all…

83

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
I grew up in the mountains of Appalachia big boy…it was about as red as you can be…you would think there would be, by god, millionaires with all that personal responsibility going on…but I reckon the government just came on in and took it…it wasn’t that they didn’t have shit to begin with…[/quote]

lol…

Can you make a single post without putting someone down either directly or indirectly?

Serious question: does putting others down make you feel elevated?[/quote]

How was that putting anybody down? Because I pointed out that they don’t have shit? Have you ever walked around a coal camp? Those places are dumps. National Geographic has come in and said the same thing…we had doctors without borders and some sort of dental program come in every year to the fairgrounds to give people checkups and fix people’s fucked up teeth. This isn’t me being an asshole, this is me telling you how it is and asking you if you’ve ever seen it? I have seen a shitload more blight and deplorable living conditions in the backwoods and towns than i have living in big cities.

84

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

going to go live my e-life outside now…ciao[/quote]

Please point out where Hamilton advocated the Federal government telling people how to live their day-to-day lives.

Also, given the quote you just made, and citing the typical statist response of “general welfare” clause, please define the general welfare, and how this program accomplishes that without infringing on natural rights. [/quote]

Hamilton isn’t telling people how to live anything, kinda like this nudge squad. I do suppose you read the article, correct? The nudge squad is not TELLING anybody to do anything, at least in the examples given (cue slippery sloppers to come in and try to tell us what it MIGHT do). Posting facts that bring attention to things that might apply to them and might affect them in a negative way if not understood and taken to heart, is not TELLING. Me thinks the people in this thread that are yelling about it so loudly haven’t taken the time to read either the link or the link-in-the-link that actually explains it…or maybe it’s the alternative that they just want to find something to yell about.

Can you post an example given in any of the articles, since there were no other citations given to discuss, of the government TELLING people what to do?? Or is that to be inferred?

As far as the necessary and proper clause and general welfare, well, i guarandamntee nobody here would like my overly progressive answer and I may save that for another thread, but as it applies to this current topic I don’t think we are anywhere close to infringing on what might reasonably be considered “general welfare”. I would have a hard time looking at myself in the mirror and not laughing my ass off if I were to argue that it isn’t in the best interests of this great nation that we do not become a nation of debtors not paying their bills, that we are not a bunch of bums that cannot support ourselves in retirement, that we are not dropping dead of heart disease at the age of 30.

The reason these programs exist is not because they were dreamed up by some guy who just wants to take your liberties and stuff away and then instituted for no real reason, they exist because there was a problem identified and people that you elected to represent you (this is a collective you, btw…ohhhhh so statist) feel like this is the best way to address it.

If people had taken personal responsibility before it became an impacting issue, I have a hard time being convinced the support for something to be done with it at a higher level would have been necessary.

The ol boys that wrote that piece of paper people around here love to thump but not actually read obviously saw a problem with that and ensured other checks and balances to ensure it was not abused. We have those in place. If you don’t like it, organize a grassroots campaign to do something about it: change your offical, change the laws, amend the constituion to prohibit it…

85

[quote]pushharder wrote:
You’re too fuckin dumb to even understand what you yourself just posted. You should be using your Mensa card to wipe your ass not posting it here on TN. It shows the Mensa people have impeccably low standards.[/quote]

Fatty calls me fat one day, and dummy calls me dumb the second…I wonder what the third day will have in store?

Cue the music Brad:

86

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

So we are to assume you would have zero objection to this program if a Republican administration was in control of it?[/quote]

You’re god damn right I wouldn’t. I may seem like a Progressive shill to the nutjobs in this forum, but there are a lot of things the Pubs’ did that I really appreciate. I’m sure there are other things that I am on board with, but off the top of my head I am pro gun (to an extent) and pro military (ditto), and I think they’ve (mostly) got that bang on. At least for the current environment. Like I said I grew up in the mountains and work for the military…I sleep pretty comfortably at night.

It really seems weird to me that some of these things we treat as political issues are political at all…[/quote]

Fair enough.

I’ll respond with substance Monday-ish…

87

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

Hamilton isn’t telling people how to live anything, kinda like this nudge squad. I do suppose you read the article, correct? The nudge squad is not TELLING anybody to do anything, at least in the examples given (cue slippery sloppers to come in and try to tell us what it MIGHT do). [/quote]

Well, to be honest, the slippery slope issues are the concerning part.

This is real life, slippery slope happens, and by the time it is noticed, it is too late. I’d rather just avoid the possibility.

It is propaganda, without question. I don’t want a Ministry of Propaganda.

I think you are ignoring the downside and possible directions this could be taken by the government. They can’t even keep their greedy fingers off of my text messages between me and my wife. What on Earth makes you think this will stay some innocent “help the people” program?

Also, government sponsored facts aren’t always facts. Unless it really was a youtube video that caused the meltdown on 09/11/12.

I’m not going to get into a semantically argument. There is no need. If “nudging” people into a direction chosen by the government is significantly different in your mind than “telling” someone to do what the government wants them to, then fine.

I would have a hard time looking myself in the face and not laughing if I thought it was government’s place to be this involved in anyone’s day-to-day life.

This is a whole different thread, and I largely disagree.

[quote]If people had taken personal responsibility before it became an impacting issue, I have a hard time being convinced the support for something to be done with it at a higher level would have been necessary.

[/quote]

It isn’t like 2013 is the first year people didn’t pay their bills. This isn’t a new problem that needs a government solution. That, is also a large part of the problem.

88

[quote]JEATON wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]atypical1 wrote:
So what’s exactly wrong with this? [/quote]

I don’t trust my government, or some random sociologist to tell me what is right for me.

They dont’ live my life, and they, and I know this comes as a shock to them, don’t know what is best for me. I do. [/quote]

Blasphemy!
[/quote]

Definitely not.

Heresy.

89

[quote]orion wrote:

[quote]JEATON wrote:

Blasphemy!
[/quote]

Definitely not.

Heresy.

[/quote]

I’m always amused at how often the German speakers on this site need to correct the English of the native English speakers.

Gently nudging them in the direction of literacy, as it were.