Good post Beans. You know, I think, as an outside observer to the back and forth between you and SMH, the two of you don’t seem to really be disagreeing so much as viewing the topic from the total opposite spectrum. Clearly, you think internal threats are a much more apparent and key issue right now than external threats. Bringing up the gun travesty that is Massachusetts law made that painfully obvious. I definitely agree that there are important domestic issues at stake in this election.
Now, SMH hasn’t really commented on domestic issues like the Mass gun law travesty you mentioned from what I’ve seen, but clearly he sees Russian intervention in a sovereign nation’s election as a serious geopolitical threat to our country. I took an oath to defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and domestic, so I see both as equally terrifying and problematic. As far as I’m concerned, if Russia is truly behind this attack with the goal of undermining our election then that’s an act of war. That’s a serious issue and having the leading candidate of one of our two major parties seemingly support such actions from an outside power is also a serious issue, IMO. I agree that Trump has about a 2% chance of winning, but he’s still a major figure in U.S. politics as of this moment and his words will have an impact.
I also tend to agree with SMH’s analysis that China is the real threat both short and long term and I also think we shouldn’t forget that Trump’s trade policies would likely (and that’s being kind) start a trade war with China. That leads me to the question, who benefits from a trade war between China and the U.S.? Russia, right?
The content of the DNC emails is troubling from the little I’ve read (plan on reading when I can), but at the same time the DNC fixing their primary, if that’s what occurred, isn’t really that troubling, IMO. The broader and more troubling issue is that the American public, in significant numbers, supported a Bernie Sanders to begin with. That’s the real internal threat.
I think I’ve read you mention that this action made you a “de facto felon” a couple of times over the past week or so. How does it do so? Maybe I have missed something when reading about it, but I don’t see how it does.
Whatever happened to the 12th ammendment? I think a lot of people don’t realize that a 3rd party doesn’t need to win the election to keep Trump or Clinton out of office. I thought a prerequisite for most presidential debates was 10% in polling. I think if Johnson got on a national debate it would open the door for this.
Second, I disagree with Johnson on a key issue very important to me, abortion. I cannot and will not ever support a candidate who supports abortion. I cannot in good conscience do such a thing.
There are many things I do like about Johnson, but that is non-starter for me. Sorry, cannot do it.
I have no issues with his actual concerns at all. They are valid and you’re both right about the totality and unnerving implications of Russian Government doing this, if they in fact did it, which it seems they did.
However; that IMO is all moot if we implode from the inside. And at this point, we’re a lot closer to imploding from the inside than I think a lot of people really give credit to. Look at our two major party candidates:
One is a loud mouth TV personality who’s actions and promises will very well lead to a global economic depression and therefore indirectly massive war.
The other is a corrupt petty tyrant who’s actions and promises will very well lead to a global economic depression, and therefore more indirectly than the above, a massive war.
Trump is trade wars that destroy the world order, Hillary more of the same central bank Band-Aids, and ridiculing the concerns of the likes of Romney about foreign powers that seem really damn relevant today, that are about to crash the global economy.
We are fucked. Hilary is the far, far better of the two by all accounts, but it doesn’t change the fact she isn’t walking into a situation with much to work with, and is looking to pack the courts with political crusaders and isn’t afraid of cheating the process to get her way.
We’ve got people shouting down the phrase “black lives matter” because they are emotional retards that can’t for one instant actually look at the content of the words for two seconds, and place themselves in someone else’s shoes. Then, the same people will chant “blue lives matter” when it will be those same blue lives, with the same outlaws rifles that come to confiscate your rights. And yes, they will do it, because government pension, and “I just want to make it home at night”.
I’m likely going to be labeled a terrorist by the Boston Globe because I refuse to comply, and will be the butt of one of Sarah Silverman’s jokes when I’m executed because I won’t turn in a rifle I was forced to register when I bought it, legally. And the timeline is looking like this will all happen before my daughter is a teen.
Things like:
Are pretty fucking moot when our own countrymen and women are put into a position where their own government is less than a decade away from putting them in the “live as a slave or die on my own two feet” reality.
Right, as do I. However, if your house is on fire, and your family inside is it more prudent to rail on and on about how there is a wildfire in Canada or is a focus on the issue in front of your face, your own home, the bigger issue at the moment.
The content of the emails isn’t just “dirty politics” or “pols being pols”. It is undeniable proof the ruling elite are doing the vary same thing the Russian government is being blamed for right in front of us, and no one cares. And worse, it’s being accepted and brushed off as “politics as usual” from a crony that lined up behind Obama to ridicule Romney for basically predicting this entire happening, and willing to take away your ability to defend yourself from her Jack Boot Thugs.
I’m not being a conspiracy theorist here either man. Why on Earth do you think NYS tried to make people register their rifles? It wasn’t for “accurate statistics”. Their was a US Representative that stormed out of the CT legislative meetings because confiscation language was removed from the bill. And these tyrants have backing by portions of the US population. These people happen to be winning the culture war in that “everything left is good, and thing right is the devil” and I’m being called a terrorist on social media because I’m standing for rights, due process and checks and balances. You know, the very foundation of our system.
No one. It starts WWIII.
People underestimate how indispensable the flow of $ from and to the US is to global economic function. Russia can’t replace us on that world stage and they know it. China can’t control their population if we crash either. We have a lot fo leverage with our $. The oil in the ME and their willingness to drill and sell it the only close comparable situation. Imagine the entire ME tomorrow blow itself up and their is zero oil exports. Think of the carnage. That’s what happens when America is feeding the rest of the worlds economic interests.
This leads me back into the importance of seeing our current domestic state as important as it is.
I’m not sure how many more examples of the people of this nation having absolutely zero control over their government, or it’s actions need to be presented before this is seen as troubling.
The cry for communistic shitlords is always loud after and during economic hard times.
“It’s the economy stupid” or whatever the legend is around the quote that supposedly won Bill the Whitehouse.
As I explicitly argued, what is illegitimate about your claim –
“the safe assumption is the shit leaking into the ‘press’ isn’t the whole story, by a long shot, and that the DNC emails are only a fraction of the actual events… And likely a diversion from some larger deception going on”
– is that, and here I’m quoting myself, “you either do or do not have evidence that this ‘more’ [known to Obama] alters in some material way the totality of the circumstances and the rational conclusion arising from that totality.” In other words, you can observe all you want that any particular natsec event as understood by the general public is blurrier than that event as understood by the CIC. But you cannot wave away with evidenceless innuendo the rational/consensus interpretation of the (compelling) facts by claiming without a shred of supporting data that the details available to Obama via his sharper, less blurry picture somehow bear materially on the matter in such a way as to alter a good-faith analysis of it. That proposition means nothing until you explain how or why anybody should entertain it as a concrete possibility.
In other words, your desire to cast doubt on the current consensus not for the sake of compelling counter-evidence but instead for the sake of the doubt itself will not convince until it comes to hinge on the former rather than the latter.
Edit: And anyway, nothing I’m saying in this thread should be taken to mean that domestic/state/other developments X, Y, and Z are inconsequential or insignificant or good or bad or anything. While I am angered by what you’re describing to me about the situation vis-a-vis alterations to your state’s interpretation of the law, I am not under the impression that it bears on my analysis of the cretin a few polling points away from the presidency (or the nefarious fucks around the world who want him there).
61 million bucks siphoned out of the Victory Fund directly into Hillary’s campaign to be exact. I posted the email stating that fact ^^ up there. It’s not a rumor, it happened. Of course, I suppose stealing money from Federal and State Senators and Reps is a-ok, so long as the corruption ensures the most qualified candidate gets the nod, whether or not she actually won it or not.
In the '90’s he was, I don’t know when he switched, but he switched. People can and do change their minds.
Again, I am not a big fan, but his issues most closely match mine.
We have 2 piles of shit to choose from, I picking from the less smelly pile.
Do you consider it wash either way, who wins this election?
Depends. Prior to last week and Fuer Healy’s edict I was a lot more rational and saw a Hilary win actually a long term positive for the GOP/Right (seeing as I think Trump is one of the final nails in the party’s coffin). She’ll largely continue Obama’s terms, which means down ticket wins for the right in midterms, and her holding the bag with the QE nonsense finally comes home to roost and we fall into global economic meltdown.
Her FP is likely to be much better than Obama’s and I suspected that at the end of the day, we’ll emerge after 8 years with a solid GOP/Right POTUS, with good numbers in Congress who will tweek and prod the economy and hopefully restore balance to SCOTUS, with the relative “fixed” FP Hilary will employ after the shit job Obama has done.
After Last weeks power grab by the petty tyrant in my AG’s office… I’ve concluded we’re fucked, and I’ll likely be dead before Hilary finishes her second term.
@countingbeans, in the spirit of what USMCCDS is arguing, this is the edit I added to my last post to you, in case I didn’t get it in in time:
And anyway, nothing I’m saying in this thread should be taken to mean that domestic/state/other developments X, Y, and Z are inconsequential or insignificant or good or bad or anything. While I am angered by what you’re describing to me about the situation vis-a-vis alterations to your state’s interpretation of the law, I am not under the impression that it bears on my analysis of the cretin a few polling points away from the presidency (or the nefarious fucks around the world who want him there).
Anyway, it will be interesting to see what happens with this mess from here on out. As USMC says, this would be a grave step toward actual conflict. What happens? Open condemnation? Sweep it away in public remarks and then launch an appropriate covert cyber retaliation (most likely)? We’ll see.
I’m pretty sure he’s one of the “i personally think it’s wrong as hell, but the goberment has no place to dictate individual actions of people”.
Abortion is one place were Libertarians really shit the bed. The party is fucked in it’s stance and rationalizations. Little l libertarians for the most part, are pro-life and understand rights and basic science, etc.
*** Warning: Wild Speculation and Conspricay Theory Below ***
If the date on the “Taco Bowl” email is prior to the Trump Tweet on May 5th, my money is on the Russians doing THIS hack as a retaliation for a previous Obama hack. Hence it targeting the DNC and leaked to Trump’s team before WikiLeaks.
