The Next President of the United States: IV

Off Topic Politics & World Issues
461

This Wikileaks stuff is a treasure trove. Bernie got screwed by his own party big time.
Check this out:
https://www.wikileaks.com/dnc-emails/emailid/6230

https://www.wikileaks.com/dnc-emails/emailid/6291

"For months, you’ve heard the Clinton campaign endlessly repeat in interviews and on social media that they have raised millions and millions of dollars for state parties through something called the “Hillary Victory Fund.” They’ve even used it as an attack line to insinuate Bernie wasn’t willing to help down-ballot Democrats. Well, yesterday morning, thanks to a Politico investigation, we found out that less than 1 percent of the $61 million raised by the Victory Fund has stayed in state party coffers. And indeed, the majority of the money spent by the Victory Fund has gone to benefit Hillary Clinton’s primary campaign against us. The piece said some state party fundraisers believe they are basically acting as “money laundering conduits.” "

462

I like your posts, but you are not calling this fair in my opinion.

If we don’t want foreign governments meddling in our affairs, that means ALL foreign governments meddling in our affairs. Not just the ones that harm Hillary.

463

Fair enough you are outed that’s good enough for me.

464

It makes sense from Putin’s perspective. Why even pretend to try to close the gap with the US industrial and military might when with a just a few well placed bribed POTUS advisers one can dictate US foreign policy in geographical regions of their interest.

One of the recurring themes in current Stalin-style propaganda in Russian media is the triumph of “willpower” (remember “willpower”, a concept championed by a certain deranged Austrian) - that US conventional and military might is irrelevant as Putin broke both Obama’s and Kerry’s wills - shown by the staggering inferiority complex show by the current Secretary of State towards Russia and Obama’s total lack of reaction to the recent unraveling of the US strategic position in E. Europe/ME.

The world’s only superpower is professing their gratitude to Russia for allowing them to cooperate in Syria, while that same Russia is invading other countries and threatening erstwhile US allies in E. Europe - and the the presumptive POTUS casually mentions that some allies are worth defending and some maybe not. Music to Putin’s ears.

Also, these FSB-run Trump advisors are nothing new - the US has made disastrous foreign policy choices in E. Europe, where several highly motivated individuals pushed their agendas through clueless policy makers.

Bush Senior’s administration is probably the worst in this aspect, gaining notoriety in E. Europe for desperately trying to prop up communist regimes in former Warsaw Pact countries (!). Administration of Bush Senior exerted huge pressure on the pro-democratic forces in Poland who won the elections rigged against them in 1989, asking them to include the Communist Party in the government.

Bush Senior actively campaigned against Ukrainian independence and tried to undermine peaceful revolutions in what was then Czechoslovakia and Hungary.

Also little known is that the US helped kick start the decade long Wars in former Yugoslavia, with the help of this guy who is still universally reviled around here:

He persuaded clueless Secretary of State Baker and Bush Senior to give a three month carte blanche to the Yugoslav Army to “sort things out” in the country.

Not much damage there - just a half million dead and ten years of wars. And a foothold for the salafis on European soil.

So the amount of damage that advisors to POTUS Donald J. Trump that are working in concert with other Powers makes me shudder.

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465

(First off, I like your posts too.)

Believe me, I don’t want anybody meddling in our affairs. Not Russia, not Mexico, not Andorra.

But there is no question that what Rajraj cited is not in the same universe as what I cited.

There is “meddling” and then there is meddling…and there are foreign governments and then there are foreign governments.

It is not clear to me that Mexican consulates in the US telling the people they serve how to legally apply to become American is illegal or illegitimate (a quick search indicates that our own foreign diplomatic agencies provide all kinds of similar services to our own citizens abroad). After all, they are literally just describing OUR OWN LAWS and procedures to the people for whom those laws and procedures were established. Even as I type this, I am becoming skeptical that what the Mexican diplomatic services are doing constitutes illegitimate meddling in a domestic election (under, say, the Friendly Relations Declaration).

But even if it did, it would not be in the same UNIVERSE as the unquestionably illegal, immensely grave geopolitical power-play that is a rival government ordering its foreign and military intelligence services to intervene directly in an American election by way of an act of targeted cyber-warfare in violation of US law and sovereignty. The gravity-differential between what the Mexican and Russian states are doing is too large to be overstated. This is to say nothing of the fact that Russia and Mexico are not remotely comparable in terms of the risk they pose to world order and American security interests.

This is all intuitive and clear when you think about the different terms that apply to the different scenarios:

Consulate, workshop, permanent residents, learn, American procedures and laws

Or

FSB, GRU, tradecraft, hack, steal

Anyway, the above is all obvious and clear. There is meddling and there is meddling, just like there are explosions (firecracker on 4th of July) and explosions (thermonuclear detonation at Grand Central Station). The real question, ZEB or Rajraj or whoever else in PWI is openly supporting the catastrophe that is Donald Trump, is this:

Why does Putin want Trump to win?

Wanna take a guess?

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466

No, just as hacks of foreign political organizations are nothing new. Not here, not there.

But something about this is indeed new: publishing the contents of the hack in order to directly damage a US POTUS candidate and benefit her rival. This (comparatively) open and direct push for one candidate by way of action rather than mere influence – just as that candidate signals his intention to give free geopolitical rein to the pusher – is new.

In other words, this was not an intelligence-gathering operation. It was not the currying of advisor favor. It was not getting the ear of the right think-tankers. It was not playing the academic landscape to advantage. It was direct political subterfuge.

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467

Have to agree on that. Now it’s oficially part of the Russian military strategy.

Keep your opponents busy with politically charged internal issues, won’t have the attention span to deal with global issues.

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468

Oh, they are…my facebook feed is blowing the hell up right now with the rage. As it should honestly…I don’t need to be a Bernie fan to be pissed at corruption and an outright attempt to control the outcome (beyond the normal arbitrary rule decision process prior to each convention).

Whole bakery is right.

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469

In the younger crowd I have an “in” to, this is the biggest draw to Sanders by far, and the biggest reason they don’t want Hillary. The younger millenials have a lot of rather scary/stupid ideas about economics and what “should” be done re: minimum wage, school, etc. But that is certainly NOT representative of all the millenials who support Sanders. The global constant between all Sanders supporters young and old is his

    • authenticity (for a politician)
    • intense anti-corruption support–even if misdirected at “the billionnaires” and
    • as a result of 1 and 2 an intense anti-Hillary movement because she represents NONE of that in any way, shape, or form.
470

And now at least some of your are actually understanding why I have been saying that Hillary will never become President of the United States.

471

I, for the record, have always understood your belief as to why. I, as an observer, and a right leaning observer at that, cannot imagine why people are throwing their apologia at Trump.

He is as much of a hold your nose candidate as Romney or McCain ever was.

Hilary is corrupt, and provably corrupt at that, but Trump perverts a movement he has only ever been tangentially a part of (conservatism).

Honestly, I feel for you guys at the moment. I couldn’t vote for either.

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472

No one misunderstood you before.

473

Agreed - Sanders deserved a fair shot at the nomination, and I am furious along with his supporters. The DNC is a wholly owned subsidiary of Clinton, Inc. and they deserve all the rage their corruption created. I hope they keep it up all convention long.

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474

You never know there are far more Hillary supporters lurking than one can imagine. In fact, I outed one recently.

475

No you didn’t. I agreed with Countingbeans on that idea - the thesis that Clinton might be better long term - a while back. That’s been on the record for months. You were part of thread, so you knew that.

476

I think the major newspapers can tell us all we need to know about this.

477

linking Putins motives to wanting Trump as POTUS is just some bullshit unfounded assertion. If anything Clinton with her email scandal has demonstrated she would be a better candidate for Russia’s interests.

“Tom is a Commissioner on The Commission on Cyber Security for the 44th Presidency.” -the expert in the articles LinkedIn

Trump has said he doesn’t even use email as too many people he knows have been hacked. Maybe that’s why he hasn’t been hacked by the Russians? Their motives could be as simple as wanting to create choas and instability in the US by leaking this election rigging, who the fuck knows? Certainly not you.

The Mexicans meddling in US affairs just shows you Don’t care about outsiders meddling in the US election, just you are anti-Trump and pro-jihadi. I’m sure your tortured logic is convincing to your low iq jihadi pals, but not here.

478

[quote=“therajraj, post:457, topic:218984, full:true”]
linking Putins motives to wanting Trump as POTUS is just some bullshit unfounded assertion.[/quote]

Nope. It is clear at this point that the hack originated with GRU/FSB. Each of the three cybersecurity firms (CrowdStrike, Mandiant, and Fidelis) that have studied the breach has independently identified Russian state actors. There is forensic evidence, tools known to the cybersecurity community as FSB/GRU implements reused here after having already played a role in the Bundestag operation. Guccifer can’t competently speak Romanian (but his English improved drastically over a short span of time…weird). There is much more evidence. Find it on your own if you remain unconvinced.

What remains is the why. You pathetically suggest that the FSB might have mere anarchy on its mind. Perhaps this would be plausible if it were not the case that Trump is objectively good for Putin. Manafort’s ties to Kremlin interests are deep and strong. Likewise Page and Gazprom. But whatever specific arrangements of [pro-Putin advisors] + [intellectual/psychological deficiencies internal to Trump’s mind] are pushing him to make a policy of fatuous geopolitical confusion, the policy itself is all the evidence we need.

In other words, a presidential candidate is…

A. Being specifically aided by an irruption of Russian cyberwarfare into domestic electoral politics

While

B. Explicitly casting aspersions on NATO’s Article 5 in an unprecedentedly stupid display of ignorance of more than half a century of geopolitical reality

…and you have the unimaginable gall to pretend that we can’t figure out how and why it all adds up. Why don’t you stick to obsessively fantasizing about being an “alpha” and leave the rest to the adults.

[Quote]
If anything Clinton with her email scandal has demonstrated she would be a better candidate for Russia’s interests. [/quote]

Putin disagrees.

[Quote]
“Tom is a Commissioner on The Commission on Cyber Security for the 44th Presidency.” -the expert in the articles LinkedIn [/quote]

See above. Independently verified by three firms. Specific and compelling evidence. Yadda yadda.

I already explained in detail how these things are unalike. In fact they are so unlike that the word “unalike” is on its own inadequate in its ability to capture the extent to which the two are distinct, and you are debasing this argument by attempting this pathetic defense. Remember? About our own diplomatic services abroad? About how, even if explaining American laws to the people for whom they were written were “meddling,” such a workshop would not be in the same universe as an irruption of military cyberwarfare into our domestic electoral politics with one party/candidate as a target of theft…and go fuck yourself for trying to pretend that you remotely believe otherwise.

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Russia Won't Go Away
479

^ Oh, and the above is to say nothing of the fact that even if Putin did not have reason to think President Trump and his comrades – er, advisors – will be specifically good for Russian interests, he would still want Trump in the White House. And again, why not? The bumbling inability to understand geopolitics. The nuclear triad. The NPT. NATO. Defaulting on the national debt. Trade wars. “ARTICLE XII” of the Constitution. Diplomatic disengagement from Muslim countries and the resulting decimation of Western counterterrorism. Why would our little Russian rival not hope that we might put our ship in the hands of a uniquely stupid, uniquely incompetent buffoon whose explicit policy aims entail American ruin? Why would he not try to lend a hand?

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480

[quote=“smh_23, post:478, topic:218984, full:true”]
Nope. It is clear at this point that the hack originated with GRU/FSB. Each of the three cybersecurity firms (CrowdStrike, Mandiant, and Fidelis) that have studied the breach has independently identified Russian state actors. There is forensic evidence, tools known to the cybersecurity community as FSB/GRU implements reused here after having already played a role in the Bundestag operation. Guccifer can’t competently speak Romanian (but his English improved drastically over a short span of time…weird). There is much more evidence. Find it on your own if you remain unconvinced.[/quote]

I’m not unconvinced the hack came from Russia, I’m unconvinced by the bullshit assertion that Putin is in deeply yearning for a Trump presidency. Even if he magically is, Trump wanting Putin =/= Trump is catastrophic president.

[quote=“smh_23, post:478, topic:218984, full:true”]
What remains is the why. [/quote]

And this is where your bullshit falls short. You are speculating.

[quote=“smh_23, post:478, topic:218984, full:true”]
You pathetically suggest that the FSB might have mere anarchy on its mind. Perhaps this would be plausible if it were not the case that Trump is objectively good for Putin. [/quote]

Trump is a wildcard who has NO political background. You are wildly speculating and you know it.

Trump has framed himself as an anti-interventionist president, but doesn’t mean he will magically disengage from any and all entanglements.

[quote=“smh_23, post:478, topic:218984, full:true”]
Manafort’s ties to Kremlin interests are deep and strong. Likewise Page and Gazprom. But whatever specific arrangements of [pro-Putin advisors] + [intellectual/psychological deficiencies internal to Trump’s mind] are pushing him to make a policy of fatuous geopolitical confusion, the policy itself is all the evidence we need.[/quote]

Suggesting Trump’s campaign manager is in bed with Putin = more conspiracy nut jobbery.