The Next President of the United States: IV

[norse84]

Policy doesn’t win elections(It bores the average voter), nor does VP’s winning a debate. I don’t remember any policy talk in the last debate or in general this election but it sure seemed to help Clinton in the polls. Cool sound bites and one liners seem to do the trick. Doesn’t hurt when you’re running against a blithering idiot who seems to self inflict damage on himself whenever he speaks either.

It will just come down to this final debate on Sunday. If (yuuuuge if) Trump can focus on Clinton and point out her many failures and long history of corruption, which should be easy for anyone with a brain, he will win this election. If Trump reverts to his normal self and bloviates on about Sean Hannity and having the best temperament, he will lose in a land slide. I

[anon50325502]

@therajraj

Are you a small government guy or not?

Fix our immigration system and the problem is solved.

@therajraj

Once again they are filling jobs that otherwise wouldn’t exist as companies would move to automate. They only have an ability to work these jobs because the government is giving them welfare.

So there’s no harm in low-skilled immigrants filling these jobs then. In fact, it reduces costs for companies and consumers.

@therajraj

You’re okay with billions of dollars leaving the country in remittances???

I’ve no clue what this has to do with what I wrote about illegals leaving because they can’t find work. I believe in freedom. If I want to work in the U.S. and send my money to Switzerland I should be free to do so assuming I am not breaking the law.

Fix the immigration system, crack down on employers using illegal immigrant labor, and the problem is solved.

None of the above will change the decline of low-skilled native worker participation.

@therajraj

I just told you Mexican immigrants aren’t the only ones crossing illegally from Mexico. a quarter of all illegals crossing into America are from Latin & Central America. Your numbers do not account for this.

I don’t care because it’s not a hyoggge problem.

7 charts that explain the undocumented immigrant population

[quote=“therajraj, post:3223, topic:218984”]
Keep reading -

Limiting immigration would not solve all the problems facing low-skill natives, but it would provide the incentive to get them back to work and back into the mainstream of society.
[/quote]

Sure. “Would not solve”

Let me know when wages for low-skilled jobs surpasses welfare benefits. Then we’ll see if they have to be provided “incentive” to re-join the workforce.

@therajraj

It’s good to know that you have some interest in enforcing some laws.

It’s really difficult not to get pissed off at your posts. Probably 20 times over this election cycle I’ve stated unequivocally that we have a number of enforcement problem. The majority of these posts have probably been directed at you.

It’s cool, though, non-sequiturs are fun…

@therajraj

1. they have multiple anchor babies and therefore they are eligible for welfare through their children

Their children are U.S. citizens by law and they are eligible for certain benefits by law. If you don’t like that I suggest you call your Congressman or discuss it with the Supreme Court.

On one hand you want the U.S. government to enforce the law, but on the other hand, you do not. Do you not see the inconsistency of your position?

@therajraj

2. it’s also state dependent. For instance in California goes as far as allowing illegal immigrants to vote

@therajraj

3. The US has plenty of sanctuary cities meaning you don’t need to be a legal immigrant to receive government services. All the big ones where minorities head to are sanctuary cities.

Do you believe in Federalism? If states like California want to give away taxpayer dollars to illegal immigrants and the people of that state don’t change this via vote then there’s really nothing to talk about. That’s the essence of the 10th amendment at work.

@therajraj

It also means illegals provide no value here

They provide plenty of value to the companies that hire them or they wouldn’t hire them. They also provide value to consumers as their labor cost is less than that of a native worker. It’s illegal and it shouldn’t happen, but that doesn’t mean they don’t provide value.

Just to nip this in the bud, no I am not condoning the use of illegal immigrant labor.

@therajraj

and what little low skilled jobs left will go entirely to natives as opposed to illegals.

This is conjecture. it’s just as likely for these low-skilled jobs to either a) cease to exist entirely or b) remain unfilled as welfare payouts are higher than wages for low-skilled jobs.

If they are filled you can bet consumers will pay for.

@therajraj

Don’t you want to put low skilled natives in the best position possible to succeed?

We’re talking primarily about high school dropouts that have received over a decade of “free” education only to turn around and take even more government handouts for the rest of their life.

At least illegals actually work.

I’ll address your 32 page paper when I have the time to read the whole thing.

@treco

Therefore companies and government can’t or won’t build here?

IMO, it is because the cost to employee American’s due to government overreach is simply too high for many manufacturers to remain profitable.

I work for a company that has several million+ acre warehouses. One is in MD where the minimum wage will be $10.10 next year. I sat in a board meeting discussing this issue that is going to increase our operating budget by $2M year over year. Zero increase in production for $2,000,000+ thanks to Uncle Sam.

That is a big part of the problem. Not an influx of illegals taking jobs, but an overabundance of government interference.

Certainly, manufacturers exist, but the days of steel mill workers and assembly lines are about over.

Coincidentally, I was just reading about a huge project that’s going to begin soon in Baltimore that is counter to my argument.

Baltimore Peninsula

[anon50325502]

@therajraj

http://www.fairus.org/DocServer/research-pub/FAIR_2016_Education_Report.pdf

Haven’t read it yet, but…

12-6-immigration.pdf

It’s an interesting article that correctly points out how much of a grey area this is.

https://www.treasury.gov/connect/blog/Pages/The-Many-Contributions-of-Immigrants-to-the-American-Economy.aspx

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/foreign-policy/203984-illegal-immigrants-benefit-the-us-economy

Some of the points you’ve made are fair, but the net drain on society one is not.

[anon50325502]

http://thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/presidential-races/299885-trump-caught-on-hot-mic-in-lewd-conversation-about-women

Look at Donald being so Christian. The most Christian of all Christian’s.

I don’t care that he said any of this

[anon50325502]

“I took her out furniture shopping”

Fucking rich people.

[loppar]

What’s the appropriate word or expression in English to describe a situation that is beyond insane?

Example - “Russia lodged a formal complaint with the UN because a high ranking UN official criticized Donald Trump. That is _______”

https://www.yahoo.com/news/apnewsbreak-un-criticism-trump-prompts-russian-response-164014204--election.html

How can people claiming to be patriotic Americans rationalize voting for Trump when a hostile world power is openly and unabashedly backing him?

Here’s a notorious (and hot) pro-Putin activist protesting in front of the US Embassy in Moscow…

[Aragorn]

@anon50325502

She was a gift that could have lead to 50 years of conservative governance. So naturally, Republican’s piss all over it.

Welllll I mean, we don’t want to make things too easy do we?

[Aragorn]

@anon50325502

One of the reasons I am questioning this is because one way for a company or owner to reduce their tax liability is to invest via capital expenditures before income is passed through to them and is subject to ordinary income tax rates, which in Trump’s case should be the maximum (except with such a large NOL carryforward).

Would you mind explaining that strategy with an example or so? I think I have the general idea but not quite clear what you mean

[MaximusB]

- YouTube

He sounds a bit mysogonistic.

[anon50325502]

@Aragorn

@anon50325502

One of the reasons I am questioning this is because one way for a company or owner to reduce their tax liability is to invest via capital expenditures before income is passed through to them and is subject to ordinary income tax rates, which in Trump’s case should be the maximum (except with such a large NOL carryforward).

Would you mind explaining that strategy with an example or so? I think I have the general idea but not quite clear what you mean

This is way oversimplified, but it’s really just a matter of spending money. Trump could replace the roof on one of his hostels (capital expenditure) and he benefits from depreciation expense (reduces his tax liability). He could pay out a bonus, which is just an operating expense. This lowers his EBITA and thus his tax liability. He could even buy a business with an NOL and offset his income with their loss reducing his tax liability. The last one appears to be the issue as it relates to Atlantic City.

That’s the general idea anyway.

[RyuuKyuzo]

So… the fact that Putin strongly dislikes Hillary and likes Trump is a reason to support Hillary to you?

I guess Putin doesn’t want WWIII either.

[sig805]

More so that the prospect of a Trump presidency provides a very real possibility of diminishing American global influence relative to Putin Russia. That’s why Putin wants Trump elected, not by any stretch is Putin concerned over Hillary recklessly starting WW3.

[RyuuKyuzo]

Putin wants Trump elected because he won’t be antagonistic towards Russia. If you think it’s not possible to let Russia bomb the shit out of ISIS without America’s global influence slipping, I think you have a peculiar view of what’s necessary to maintain a nation’s global influence.

[Alrightmiami19c]

He hasn’t learned anything because he thinks he is the smartest person the planet. It’s obvious every time the man speaks.

[Alrightmiami19c]

@therajraj

Are you a small government guy or not?

Are you a small government guy or a Trump guy?

[debraD]

Trump is finished. Ryan just cancelled.

[sig805]

You mean he won’t be antagnostic over Russia invading Ukraine and tring to rebuild the USSR?

I can see RTs propaganda machine is paying dividends…

[sig805]

Isn’t this an oxymoron?

[RyuuKyuzo]

Christ, buddy.

Sometimes I think we deserve a Clinton presidency.

[therajraj]

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]

So there’s no harm in low-skilled immigrants filling these jobs then. In fact, it reduces costs for companies and consumers.[/quote]

It reduces costs for certain companies that employ them while passing the cost onto the rest of us through the welfare state.

1. You’re not actually saving any money since it’s coming out of your pocket via taxes to support welfare
2. The government is highly inefficient and makes this cost way more than it should. If firms took the full brunt of the cost instead of passing it on a portion to society through welfare we’d all be paying less due to the efficiency of free market goods.
3. If you claim to be small government, you can’t support this current practise

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]
I’ve no clue what this has to do with what I wrote about illegals leaving because they can’t find work. I believe in freedom. If I want to work in the U.S. and send my money to Switzerland I should be free to do so assuming I am not breaking the law. [/quote]

Yes I agree, but What if they are sending money they received through welfare? That’s taxpayer money leaving the country

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]
Fix the immigration system, crack down on employers using illegal immigrant labor, and the problem is solved.

None of the above will change the decline of low-skilled native worker participation. [/quote]

I agree and deport them

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]
I don’t care because it’s not a hyoggge problem. [/quote]

It’s costing billions annually in limited english students also this:

Illegal immigrant numbers skyrocket at Mexican border

Are you sure it’s going down?

Senate report: Illegal immigrants benefited from up to $750M in ObamaCare...

7 charts that explain the undocumented immigrant population

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]
Sure. “Would not solve”

Let me know when wages for low-skilled jobs surpasses welfare benefits. Then we’ll see if they have to be provided “incentive” to re-join the workforce. [/quote]

Do you think companies aren’t hiring illegals under the table for jobs that would otherwise have gone to natives? Construction, custodial etc. ?

Yes it’s an enforcement problem.

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]

It’s really difficult not to get pissed off at your posts. Probably 20 times over this election cycle I’ve stated unequivocally that we have a number of enforcement problem. The majority of these posts have probably been directed at you.

It’s cool, though, non-sequiturs are fun… [/quote]

Okay

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]

Their children are U.S. citizens by law and they are eligible for certain benefits by law. If you don’t like that I suggest you call your Congressman or discuss it with the Supreme Court.

On one hand you want the U.S. government to enforce the law, but on the other hand, you do not. Do you not see the inconsistency of your position?[/quote]

…

No I’m explaining how illegals are getting access to welfare. The US needs a wall.

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]
Do you believe in Federalism? If states like California want to give away taxpayer dollars to illegal immigrants and the people of that state don’t change this via vote then there’s really nothing to talk about. That’s the essence of the 10th amendment at work. [/quote]

Federalism is fine, but when you have millions of illegals in a city, cities become handcuffed and it costs billions. If the border were enforced with the help of a wall, it would be a non-issue.

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]
They provide plenty of value to the companies that hire them or they wouldn’t hire them. They also provide value to consumers as their labor cost is less than that of a native worker. It’s illegal and it shouldn’t happen, but that doesn’t mean they don’t provide value.

Just to nip this in the bud, no I am not condoning the use of illegal immigrant labor. [/quote]

Okay.

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]

This is conjecture. it’s just as likely for these low-skilled jobs to either a) cease to exist entirely or b) remain unfilled as welfare payouts are higher than wages for low-skilled jobs.

If they are filled you can bet consumers will pay for. [/quote]

explained above.

[quote=“usmccds423, post:3227, topic:218984, full:true”]
We’re talking primarily about high school dropouts that have received over a decade of “free” education only to turn around and take even more government handouts for the rest of their life.

At least illegals actually work. [/quote]

I think there has to be guidance from the top in order to get these people to work. Social pressure, removal of welfare and not constantly seeing themselves replaced in their communities by people who don’t speak english or give two fucks about Americas laws or culture. Illegals cause social distress and weaken communities as per the link you posted.

Here is a causal study showing diversity in communities reduces social cohesion and it’s causal

http://esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2015/08/20/esr.jcv081.abstract