The Next President of the United States: IV

[zeb1]

Thank you for your heartfelt comment.

[SkyzykS]

@zeb1

Who are we all really talking to anyway? Our online persona’s can be just about anything that we want them to be.

Mine is who I am. Having met another member in person, I can tell you that he is who he is too. Taking his word for it, the other people he has met (and he has met many) are who they present themselves to be.

That aside, I thought it was funny. Nothing like that has happened around here in a while.

edit: In fact, my avatar has always been me too. Back when there was an actual picture someone even asked me why I had some roided up skinhead in my av. Now it would be a med/long haired douche.

[Bismark]

@therajraj

He’s authored a highly successful business book

Coming from a man that doesn’t “like to read”? Art of the Deal was ghostwritten by Tony Schwartz.

[Bismark]

If anyone finds themselves in Texas, I’d be more than happy to give them a lay of the land (and more than a few drinks).

[SkyzykS]

Last time I was in Texas was horrible. Came out of a black out in the middle of a knife/bottle/anything you can grab fight with some meth heads in a trailer park just outside of Fort Worth.

You aren’t affiliated with any prison gangs, are you?

[Aragorn]

@Bismark

If anyone finds themselves in Texas, I’d be more than happy to give them a lay of the land (and more than a few drinks).

What part of Texas? I have a buddy who is a touring guitarist from Austin and I stop through every now and then to catch up

[Aragorn]

@SkyzykS

Last time I was in Texas was horrible. Came out of a black out in the middle of a knife/bottle/anything you can grab fight with some meth heads in a trailer park just outside of Fort Worth.

You aren’t affiliated with any prison gangs, are you?

You know, I really think they’re pushing the plot for the new Hangover movie in a more intense direction

[SkyzykS]

@Aragorn

You know, I really think they’re pushing the plot for the new Hangover movie in a more intense direction

They better keep Chow. I love Chow.

Leslie Chow: He can fly & loves cocaine

[treco]

@Bismark

I put a commercial handgun load test article on your .380 thread in Combat you might like, in case you haven’t seen it. Very informative.

[therajraj]

[quote=“anon50325502, post:2287, topic:218984, full:true”]

I agree these are generally success of his. No doubt about that, but there’s really no way for us to quantify how successful he’s been with this information and isn’t that where the debate lies? How successful is Donald Trump really? Remember, this is only really an issue because Trump and his supporters are consistently pointing to how successful he’s been (I’m worth billions… 12 Billion. I hugely successful, etc…) as a qualifier for him being President. [/quote]

Why do you need an exact figure to validate his level of success? Why isn’t his wealth and the success of his company enough?

There’s this belief that anyone who starts with a pile of money will naturally be successful. As I’ve mentioned before plenty of people have started with money and completely fail. 60% of NBA and NFL players declare bankruptcy only a few years after retiring and to date I don’t know of any examples of lottery winners turning their millions into billions. There are however examples of lottery winners who eventually went broke.

[quote=“anon50325502, post:2287, topic:218984, full:true”]
This is often stated in terms of how well he’ll handle the economy, grow jobs, etc…, but we’ve seen his thoughts on a number of economic topics, such as tariffs that should give anyone with a general understanding of international economics (something that isn’t going anywhere anytime soon) pause. [/quote]

You’re referencing that Moody’s analytics paper again? You know the head of that report Mark Zandi advised Barack Obama and endorsed the TPP?

http://www.philly.com/philly/columnists/mark_zandi/20150628_Pacific_trade_pact_would_link_U_S__to_fastest-growing_economies.html

Also I have yet to see one of these anti-Trump’s economic policy even mention the benefits of tariffs to an economy. They do offset other taxes like say income tax which Trump is suggesting a decrease. They do increase domestic unemployment as domestic firms move in to fill the gap left by foreign firms (yes prices increase but welfare payouts decrease).

Edit: Didn’t it also say the US would hurt it’s reputation as being an “open friendly nation” if it deported illegal immigrants? That was a major red flag for bias right there.

So this belief that Trump economic policy will crash the US is nothing but a canard.

[quote=“anon50325502, post:2287, topic:218984, full:true”]
The problem is, we don’t have a meaningful measure of how successful he is; except, to compare him to the market (where he loses). [/quote]

Also you can’t make this conclusion because his father was alive until 1999 and the reports you referenced start back until 1976. How do you know he was freely available to invest as he pleased when his father was the head of the company?

@anon50325502

Otherwise, sure, it’s a bit of a crapshoot, but it’s one of the only real reasons one might support Trump. That is, his ability to set policy that will amount to economic growth. Has he demonstrated the ability to do this? I’m not convinced that he has.

[therajraj]

@Bismark

@therajraj

He’s authored a highly successful business book

Coming from a man that doesn’t “like to read”? Art of the Deal was ghostwritten by Tony Schwartz.

The ideas in the book are what made it great which they are his.

[thunderbolt23]

@zeb1

I should not have created another account as it is against T Nation rules. But I must say I did have a few of you eating out of my “reasonable and intelligent” hand under a different name. And I found that not only entertaining but interesting from a psychological perspective as well. Had I said those things as Zeb they would have been ignored by the 3 or 4 anti Zeb members. So, I did have a pretty large laugh. If you notice I didn’t use that screen name to attack or ridicule anyone. In fact, I tried to bring peace to the place even correcting “Zeb” for being overly harsh. If anything it seems that we can all be who we want online. Gruff nasty Zeb, kind gracious intelligent Mick. Who are we all really talking to anyway? Our online persona’s can be just about anything that we want them to be.

My apologies to anyone who was upset by my little prank. But even the best of us can be had now and then, I know I’ve been in the past. But it was all meant in fun, keep it in perspective. And as I have said perhaps 50 times posting online should be about having fun, should it not? Well, at least it is for me. And if it isn’t about having fun then what is it about? Some of you post as if the world were watching and you were writing for a national political magazine. I’ve even been accused of being a republican party plant (and not a very good one ha) trying to sway the Presidential election. Really? Are we that carried away with the meaninglessness of what we do here? This is a bodybuilding site and a really good one. This is not Face The Nation, or Meet The Press. It’s a bodybuilding site with a section to talk politics. It is about as likely to change about as many minds as a group of friends sitting in a bar debating politics. Sorry to burst bubbles but those long tedious debates that we get into are probably read completely by only a few and glanced at occasionally by a few more. They mean far more to those involved than to anyone else. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t have them it just means that maybe we shouldn’t take ourselves so seriously.

I have said repeatedly that not many minds will be changed by two (or more) people arguing politics on the Internet (or anywhere else). If you are here to sharpen your debate skills there are better places as in face to face meetings. If you are hear on PWI threads to change minds then name calling, which I am guilty of, (and have also been on the receiving end as well) won’t change one single mind. Yet, we do it anyway. Some also ridicule others for poor grammar and other failings. If that is not for fun then it must be out of frustration, or a way to make ourselves feel superior to another human being. Either way it helps no one as we all know. I honestly wish good fortune on every single person that I’ve had PWI combat with there are no hard feelings on my part. I only wish the reverse were true. Utter scorn, ridicule and contempt is what has been unleashed by many (me as well) and it is all over politics? Really?

I plan on posting on T Nation for a long time to come, unless Hillary wins then I’m out for a year (isn’t betting fun too? Sure it is).

I started out trying to teach certain people a lesson but I have ended up learning one myself. It seems that I can get carried away (as do some of you) with driving home my specific point. Post after post trying to get the last word, trying to make sure that everyone understands that I am the one who is right and that my views must not be mischaracterized under any conditions. And I must get my opponent to submit, to tap out, or I lose. How foolish and ineffective. Most of you reading this have done it and we are all the worse for it. So take some advice from Mick, make your point, do it with respect and move on. If someone wants the last word let him have it be the bigger person. I can’t say that it will never happen to me again as I am only human. But I will say that I will try to do better. And I hope I’m not the only one.

1. It wasn’t a one-off prank - you’ve used “Mick28” for a long time.

2. No one was “eating out of your hand” - posters were simply being civil to someone who offered civility back and had not yet forfeited the respect owed to them by acting like a dishonest lout.

3. You weren’t “teaching everyone a lesson” - you were trying to rehabilitate yourself through fake exchanges so people in PWI might start conversing with you again.

4. Your mea culpa for getting nasty is fine as far as it goes - we’re all guilty of losing our temper and we could all so better. But that isn’t the point, though your personal attacks went further than the typical PWI poster. Rather, the issue is with your honesty, or lack of it. You’ve been proven to be a liar. You knowingly mischaracterize people’s positions. You lie, objectively, provably. And your shameful stunt of using “Mick28” is one more audacious example of your dishonesty.

You keep insisting PWI is all about fun, let’s not take it so seriously. Ok, well, then why the need to lie? If we’re all just a bunch of (relatively) anonymous posters just entertaining ourselves, why spend so much time intentionally engaging in falsehoods to try and make your political points?

Dishonesty is dishonesty is any setting. And we all know that had you not accidentally outed yourself, you’d absolutely still be carrying on this charade with “Mick28”.

[thunderbolt23]

@Rednose

An awful lot of “we’s and ours” in your bullshit apology. This sounds more like an eight year old saying but they made me do it, are you taking responsibility for your “little prank” or not.

Shit you sound like freaking hillary, you fake.

After his world-class face plant, Zeb tries to turn it into an after school special where he announces, hands on hips, “I think we all learned a valuable lesson here, didn’t we?”, and we all high five as the closing music and credits roll in.

[smh_23]

@therajraj

@Bismark

@therajraj

He’s authored a highly successful business book

Coming from a man that doesn’t “like to read”? Art of the Deal was ghostwritten by Tony Schwartz.

The ideas in the book are what made it great which they are his.

Illiterate, childlike sentence in defense of a book: A-plus irony. Well done.

[anon50325502]

@therajraj

Why do you need an exact figure to validate his level of success? Why isn’t his wealth and the success of his company enough?

It’s not about validating his level of success. It’s about quantifying how much of that success occurred because of decisions he made. In other words, I want to know how much of his success is actually his doing.

Mark Zuckerberg is reportedly worth $50B+ is he fit to be President?

@therajraj

There’s this belief that anyone who starts with a pile of money will naturally be successful. As I’ve mentioned before plenty of people have started with money and completely fail. 60% of NBA and NFL players declare bankruptcy only a few years after retiring and to date I don’t know of any examples of lottery winners turning their millions into billions. There are however examples of lottery winners who eventually went broke.

None of the above started with money…

I don’t believe starting with money guarantees success, but it certainly helps.

@therajraj

You’re referencing that Moody’s analytics paper again? You know the head of that report Mark Zandi advised Barack Obama and endorsed the TPP?

So?

@therajraj

Also I have yet to see one of these anti-Trump’s economic policy even mention the benefits of tariffs to an economy.

Probably because in our globalized economy, of which Donald Trump is a participant, tariffs have more negative consequences than positive consequences for a net importer.

@therajraj

They do offset other taxes like say income tax

How does a tariff on an imported good offset income tax?

@therajraj

which Trump is suggesting a decrease.

Sounds wonderful. I love it. Truly. How’s he going to lower taxes and reduce the debt and the deficit?

@therajraj

They do increase domestic unemployment as domestic firms move in to fill the gap left by foreign firms (yes prices increase but welfare payouts decrease).

There’s an awful lot of hope in the above paragraph. Some domestic firms might move to fill in the gaps, but it is more likely, imo, that firms will wait it out. You don’t just decide to manufacture cars in the United State v. Mexico, for example. You’re talking billions in investments.

Every nation you slap a tariff on is going to reciprocate with one of their own.

There are also a lot of things we don’t and can’t produce in the US. Like coffee, for example. Who does an import tariff hurt in this hypothetical? Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, etc… These jobs are now threatened.

Trump should look for ways to reduces the cost to do business in the US not look for ways to “punish” other countries.

Like cutting the corporate income tax, which he supports. I think that’s a good first step.

@therajraj

Edit: Didn’t it also say the US would hurt it’s reputation as being an “open friendly nation” if it deported illegal immigrants? That was a major red flag for bias right there.

I don’t know and I don’t care. Moody’s reputation is outstanding.

@therajraj

So this belief that Trump economic policy will crash the US is nothing but a canard.

I don’t believe anyone has said his policies will “crash” the US economy. All indications are that they’re going to hurt it, though.

@therajraj

Also you can’t make this conclusion because his father was alive until 1999 and the reports you referenced start back until 1976. How do you know he was freely available to invest as he pleased when his father was the head of the company?

He was given control of the company in 1971.

@therajraj

The ideas in the book are what made it great which they are his.

Have you read it?

It’s kind of ironic that a journalist helped him write it.

@thunderbolt23

After his world-class face plant, Zeb tries to turn it into an after school special where he announces, hands on hips, “I think we all learned a valuable lesson here, didn’t we?”, and we all high five as the closing music and credits roll in.

I didn’t realize Zeb was Kyle Broflovski.

[Mufasa]

@anon50325502

…Mark Zuckerberg is reportedly worth $50B+ is he fit to be President?..

Lord help us, usmc…

Would the Millennials be crazy enough to make him a Major Party Nominee???

Boy, let’s hope not.

[anon50325502]

@Mufasa

@anon50325502

…Mark Zuckerberg is reportedly worth $50B+ is he fit to be President?..

Lord help us, usmc…

Would the Millennials be crazy enough to make him a Major Party Nominee???

Boy, let’s hope not.

Lol, Kanye West 2020.

[treco]

@anon50325502

Lol, Kanye West 2020.

Now Son (sic). We don’t talk like that here.
I want you to go cut a switch and wait for me.

;7)

[zeb1]

A really great article which attempts to appeal to the republicans (among others) who refuse to back Trump Found the link on Real Clear politics.

It begins:

2016 is the Flight 93 election: charge the cockpit or you die. You may die anyway. You—or the leader of your party—may make it into the cockpit and not know how to fly or land the plane. There are no guarantees. Except one: if you don’t try, death is certain. To compound the metaphor: a Hillary Clinton presidency is Russian Roulette with a semi-auto. With Trump, at least you can spin the cylinder and take your chances.

http://www.claremont.org/crb/basicpage/the-flight-93-election/

[Drew1411]

I’m not a fan of the argument that the world will end with Hillary, it will certainly go in the wrong direction (imo), but we’re still very far from the end.

The case has already been made for the long vs. short term perspectives, which I agree with.

Also couldn’t get past this gem in the article:
“The truth is that Trump articulated, if incompletely and inconsistently, the right stances on the right issues—immigration, trade, and war—right from the beginning.”
Which I couldn’t disagree with more. Immigration he’s started with the wall and deporting people. Not even close to the right stance. Trade is awful, against the conservative position, and could lead to a trade war. I’m still not sure on his stance on war, but going after terrorists families and saying our military will follow his orders even if they’re against international law is hardly the right stance.